October 26, 20205 yr 4 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said: I suggest you watch the documentary "Totally Under Control" if you truly believe no country was prepared to deal with a potential pandemic like this, or that our lackluster response was mostly a matter of circumstance rather than uniquely our own failings. Thanks, I’ll check it out.
October 26, 20205 yr They tried to warn us about Obama 'Death Panels' Apparently, Utah is the starting place. https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/26/health/utah-hospitals-care-rationing-covid/index.html
October 26, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said: So you're just gonna keep repeating the same nonsense or are you actually gonna try to back up your position with some actual science? If you want, I'll start and then you can retort. Your choice... LIke I said dude, I'll engage with you after the election. Here's a hint. The point in the article was not about masks one way or the other. More later and in the meantime think broadly and yes think about masks but not only about masks. 59 minutes ago, Toastrel said: There are countries doing good against COVID. Sweden is not one of them. What criteria are using to make that statement? Who is "doing good"?
October 26, 20205 yr 6 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: LIke I said dude, I'll engage with you after the election. Here's a hint. The point in the article was not about masks one way or the other. More later and in the meantime think broadly and yes think about masks but not only about masks. What criteria are using to make that statement? Who is "doing good"? The science behind masks won't magically change on November 4th. Not sure why you think it would. Pretty weird statement by you, to be frank. Look, I have no idea why you're being so cryptic here. Just come out and state your opinion... Do you agree that the evidence for mask wearing is weak? Do you think policies requiring their use is based on "blind principle"? You said there's more nuance to the discussion but you've made zero effort in backing up your statements with anything even remotely scientific or data driven. I expected some of this anti-science nonsense from guys like Kz and lynched, but now it seems like you're content to lump yourself in with them by implying mask wearing isn't very effective. Sad.
October 26, 20205 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: The science behind masks won't magically change on November 4th. Not sure why you think it would. Pretty weird statement by you, to be frank. Look, I have no idea why you're being so cryptic here. Just come out and state your opinion... Do you agree that the evidence for mask wearing is weak? Do you think policies requiring their use is based on "blind principle"? You said there's more nuance to the discussion but you've made zero effort in backing up your statements with anything even remotely scientific or data driven. I expected some of this anti-science nonsense from guys like Kz and lynched, but now it seems like you're content to lump yourself in with them by implying mask wearing isn't very effective. Sad. Like I said we will get back to this if you want to go into more detail. If you don't care to discuss at that point fine.
October 26, 20205 yr 3 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: Like I said we will get back to this if you want to go into more detail. If you don't care to discuss at that point fine. Pretty sure it's clear by now which one of us doesn't want to go into more detail. Just really odd to me that this is the hill you want your credibility to die on.
October 26, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Pretty sure it's clear by now which one of us doesn't want to go into more detail. Just really odd to me that this is the hill you want your credibility to die on. I'm not dying and there is no hill. I'll engage after the election. Hint: I'm not anti mask.
October 26, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I'm not dying and there is no hill. I'll engage after the election. Hint: I'm not anti mask. Hint: You still haven't answered... Do you agree that the evidence for mask wearing is weak? Do you think policies requiring their use are based on "blind principle"?
October 26, 20205 yr 1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said: Surgical/dental masks aren’t as good as n95 masks, but they are still quite good overall (60-75% efficiency vs 95%). Cloth masks have a wide variance depending on the type (some as low as 35% compared to some being even better than surgical masks.) When it comes to protecting yourself from getting infected, wearing cloth masks is clearly better than wearing nothing. Proper fit is critical to maximizing efficiency Before I comment, I will preface this with; I did not click on the link and read the article That said, why is it that everyone says some form of this sentence whether you are for or against masks? Someone posted something about how all of these that got COVID were wearing a mask so wearing a mask is unnecessary. The point of a mask is to stop spreading the germs if you have it. It is about preventing the spread of the virus, not about contracting the virus. Everyone could be wearing a mask and the one ahole that doesnt and has COVID could very easily spread it to all those people that are wearing a mask. The use of sanitizer and washing your hands is more effective of stopping you from getting the virus.
October 26, 20205 yr 13 minutes ago, pallidrone said: Before I comment, I will preface this with; I did not click on the link and read the article That said, why is it that everyone says some form of this sentence whether you are for or against masks? Someone posted something about how all of these that got COVID were wearing a mask so wearing a mask is unnecessary. The point of a mask is to stop spreading the germs if you have it. It is about preventing the spread of the virus, not about contracting the virus. Everyone could be wearing a mask and the one ahole that doesnt and has COVID could very easily spread it to all those people that are wearing a mask. The point of wearing a mask is to block transmission in both directions. Yes, from a public policy perspective, the low hanging fruit is to prevent asymptomatic spread, but from an individual protection perspective, even the Trump toady head of the CDC was clear about mask wearing being more effective than a vaccine if you're trying to prevent yourself from getting covid. In your scenario, even if the a-hole doesn't wear a mask and coughs in a store, you are far better off with a mask on yourself than not having anything at all. Of course the best protection is if both of you are wearing a mask, but the a-holes aren't wearing them of their own volition, hence the reason why mandates are needed. Quote The use of sanitizer and washing your hands is more effective of stopping you from getting the virus. No, this is almost certainly false. The data does not back up this claim at all. Quote If we’re practicing social distancing, do we still need to wear masks? A mnemonic that Chin-Hong likes is the "Three W’s to ward off COVID-19:” wearing a mask, washing your hands, and watching your distance. "But of the three, the most important thing is wearing a mask,” he said. Compared to wearing a mask, cleaning your iPhone or wiping down your groceries are "just distractors.” There’s little evidence that fomites (contaminated surfaces) are a major source of transmission, whereas there is a lot of evidence of transmission through inhaled droplets, said Chin-Hong. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
October 26, 20205 yr 18 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: The point of wearing a mask is to block transmission in both directions. Yes, from a public policy perspective, the low hanging fruit is to prevent asymptomatic spread, but from an individual protection perspective, even the Trump toady head of the CDC was clear about mask wearing being more effective than a vaccine if you're trying to prevent yourself from getting covid. In your scenario, even if the a-hole doesn't wear a mask and coughs in a store, you are far better off with a mask on yourself than not having anything at all. Of course the best protection is if both of you are wearing a mask, but the a-holes aren't wearing them of their own volition, hence the reason why mandates are needed. No, this is almost certainly false. The data does not back up this claim at all. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent I agree with you. I will check out the link later on. If COVID has proven one thing, it is how gross people in general are. How much spit and saliva of stragners were we absorbing through our mouths and skin on a daily basis.
October 26, 20205 yr Trump’s campaign made stops nationwide. Coronavirus cases surged in his wake in at least five places. The president has participated in nearly three dozen rallies since mid-August, all but two at airport hangars. A USA TODAY analysis shows COVID-19 cases grew at a faster rate than before after at least five of those rallies in the following counties: Blue Earth, Minnesota; Lackawanna, Pennsylvania; Marathon, Wisconsin; Dauphin, Pennsylvania; and Beltrami, Minnesota. Together, those counties saw 1,500 more new cases in the two weeks following Trump’s rallies than the two weeks before – 9,647 cases, up from 8,069. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2020/10/22/trumps-campaign-made-stops-nationwide-then-coronavirus-cases-surged/3679534001/
October 26, 20205 yr 2 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: that usa today story just doesn't understand nuance. Someone forgot to tell the author he'll have to wait until after the election to discuss it.
October 26, 20205 yr France is just about to pass Sweden in deaths per capita. The US, Italy, Spain, and the UK have all just literally zoomed past Sweden. Swedish deaths have been super super low since late July and the dip you see in the graph for Sweden above started in the 1st week in July. But yeah let's just not bother to actually take a look at what is actually happening.
October 26, 20205 yr 10 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ Hmmm let's see. Should we actually look behind the graphs to understand the numbers? Let me see here... The Swedish COVID deaths spiked way up in the early April to end June timeframe yet the daily cases in March/April/May were quite low relatively speaking. Then the daily cases really spiked in June and now again in October but with no resulting deaths in the months thereafter. Plus I remember reading somewhere that literally noone is being admitted to hospitals there now. Wow a real mystery! Wonder what might be behind these really weird numbers? I bet DrPhilly has told me the story week by week in here but naturally I never actually read anything he writes so I don't know the answer. Well, I'll tell you it must be the masks. That's the answer, the masks! You guys are are a total joke.
October 26, 20205 yr don't get all emotional because you don't like the data, brah. i didn't say a word about masks in sweden.
October 26, 20205 yr Just now, mr_hunt said: don't get all emotional because you don't like the data, brah. i didn't say a word about masks in sweden. I don't mind the data at all. I read about it almost every single day. What I mind is when people take it out of context, misinterpret it, etc.
October 26, 20205 yr 2 hours ago, DrPhilly said: LIke I said dude, I'll engage with you after the election. Here's a hint. The point in the article was not about masks one way or the other. More later and in the meantime think broadly and yes think about masks but not only about masks. What criteria are using to make that statement? Who is "doing good"? Pick a criteria for doing good in a pandemic.
October 26, 20205 yr People should be paying attention to Neil Cavuto on Fox now, telling it like it is unlike Trump
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