30 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

No, ideally you want a vaccine that triggers sterilizing immunity so that anyone who is inoculated can't even get "infected" to begin with and thus can't actively spread the disease to others. Therapeutic options still allow for anyone who's infected to be carriers and infect others prior to seeking treatment.

No, see above.

That makes sense - in a perfect world we’d have both I guess.  

2 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Childish to look at the overall effects the pandemic has on a country over time. Got it. 

You sound like a Trumpbot. 

We're talking about COVID in various countries but the only metric you want is a 5 year look at death rates?

And I'm a Trumpbot?

I mistook you for an intelligent person. Correction received.

8 hours ago, Dave Moss said:

Pretty sure he’s making fun of you pretending like we can’t discuss masks because of Trump, not mocking the actual pandemic.

And the fact that the topic is so far gone politically In the US that people can’t have a discussion about it without the dug in positions is very troubling. My very point. The conversation in other countries is far more nuanced on the topic, I.e. a far more valuable and healthy discussion. Yes, I blame Trump. 

6 hours ago, Toastrel said:

We're talking about COVID in various countries but the only metric you want is a 5 year look at death rates?

And I'm a Trumpbot?

I mistook you for an intelligent person. Correction received.

Forgive me for a bit of extreme posting to try to prove a point. All I am saying is that it is very hard to just point at one metric and only part way into the process. I do believe this is a long term game and a very complex situation. Excess deaths is the only simple metric that can be used but then I would want to look at 12 months minimum. 

I think it is more effective to look at a broad group of parameters that include the excess deaths but also items that measure the over all well being of the country. 

9 hours ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

Wait  second you are the one that laughed at me in March when I said 1 million people already had the virus

Not possible. I was pushing the concept that loads of people already had it back in late Jan and early Feb. 

8 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I'm not laughing at the current situation we're in, I'm laughing at you because you're a joke.

And yes I was wrong on how insidious this contagion was back in February. I changed course two months later and admitted my mistake once I saw how easily it was spreading within our borders. You, on the other hand, seem resigned to avoiding a simple question about masks. I wonder why that is.

See other posts. I’ll answer on masks. Have some patience grasshopper. 

3 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

Forgive me for a bit of extreme posting to try to prove a point. All I am saying is that it is very hard to just point at one metric and only part way into the process. I do believe this is a long term game and a very complex situation. Excess deaths is the only simple metric that can be used but then I would want to look at 12 months minimum. 

I think it is more effective to look at a broad group of parameters that include the excess deaths but also items that measure the over all well being of the country. 

I think you chose an effective strategy to make the numbers look the way you want. Not to discuss how different nations are handling the pandemic.

4 hours ago, DrPhilly said:

See other posts. I’ll answer on masks. Have some patience grasshopper. 

Another day, another chance to make yourself the laughing stock of CVON...

Do you agree that the evidence for mask wearing is weak? Do you think policies requiring their use is based on "blind principle"?

stop saying "nuanced" over & over again.   nuanced, nuanced, nuanced!!!  

The Trump team has given up on COVID.

Not surprising, given that the President and his family caught it and now 5 of Pence's staff have it (head of the COVID task force)

They are not giving up on spreading the virus at in person events, though.

3 hours ago, Toastrel said:

I think you chose an effective strategy to make the numbers look the way you want. Not to discuss how different nations are handling the pandemic.

Happy to discuss how nations have handled the pandemic.  Metrics can be a part of that discussion but need to be put into context.  Part of the context is the time horizon.  Another part is the specific context.  For example, New Zealand has a very specific context given its geographical realilty.

1 hour ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Another day, another chance to make yourself the laughing stock of CVON...

Do you agree that the evidence for mask wearing is weak? Do you think policies requiring their use is based on "blind principle"?

Continue to beat the dead horse.  I'll answer your question the day Trump either concedes or is taken into custody.  In the meantime, I'll be laughing at you.  You can laugh at me if you like.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Happy to discuss how nations have handled the pandemic.  Metrics can be a part of that discussion but need to be put into context.  Part of the context is the time horizon.  Another part is the specific context.  For example, New Zealand has a very specific context given its geographical realilty.

You can stop now. I just wanted you to pick a metric we can use to discuss how countries are CURRENTLY handing the COVID crisis. You picked, I have no interest in whatever game you are playing.

Just now, DrPhilly said:

Continue to beat the dead horse.  I'll answer your question the day Trump either concedes or is taken into custody.  In the meantime, I'll be laughing at you.  You can laugh at me if you like.

33 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Happy to discuss how nations have handled the pandemic.  Metrics can be a part of that discussion but need to be put into context.  Part of the context is the time horizon.  Another part is the specific context.  For example, New Zealand has a very specific context given its geographical realilty.

Geography, climate, culture, affluence are all big influencers.  Which is why I would argue (without looking into the numbers before hand in case anyone thinks I'm trying to take a side here) that the most appropriate comparison for Sweden would be the other Scandanavian countries.  Low overall population density, comparable weather, shared borders but not as many as say Germany, big into saunas and smoked fish, etc.

15 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

You can stop now. I just wanted you to pick a metric we can use to discuss how countries are CURRENTLY handing the COVID crisis. You picked, I have no interest in whatever game you are playing.

Ok.  There isn't a single metric that can be looked at on its own without any context brought into the discussion.  That's it. 

8 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Geography, climate, culture, affluence are all big influencers.  Which is why I would argue (without looking into the numbers before hand in case anyone thinks I'm trying to take a side here) that the most appropriate comparison for Sweden would be the other Scandanavian countries.  Low overall population density, comparable weather, shared borders but not as many as say German, big into saunas and smoked fish, etc.

Here is a reasonable post.  Yes, that's the kind of discussion that needs to take place.  There is of course more to it.  Timeline, economic impact, education, etc. etc.

12 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 

Tell you what, take your smug attitude and shove it up your ass.

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Here is a reasonable post.  Yes, that's the kind of discussion that needs to take place.  There is of course more to it.  Timeline, economic impact, education, etc. etc.

I think that's a reasonable stance. I don't think we will have the full breadth of understanding about COVID's impact for a long time. I do think it is fair to comment/make some critiques based on the data we have at this point as long as it's properly contextualized.

 I will say that this type of argument can get out of control though.  For example, any time anyone tries to compare the US to the rest of the world for any reason (healthcare, carbon emissions, payscale, tax structure, etc)  people automatically shut it down because there is no easy proxy culturally/population density/geographically/historically to the US.  We should be able to factor in context differences without completely giving up on available data.  Not saying you're doing that here, just pointing out that the context argument can be taken too far.

NOT WEARING A MASK IS LINKED TO ANTISOCIAL TRAITS, STUDY FINDS

Those who don’t comply with Covid-19 containment measures were found to be more callous, hostile and deceitful.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/mask-wearing-anti-social-personality-traits-study-brazil-b1347252.html

3 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

I think that's a reasonable stance. I don't think we will have the full breadth of understanding about COVID's impact for a long time. I do think it is fair to comment/make some critiques based on the data we have at this point as long as it's properly contextualized.

 I will say that this type of argument can get out of control though.  For example, any time anyone tries to compare the US to the rest of the world for any reason (healthcare, carbon emissions, payscale, tax structure, etc)  people automatically shut it down because there is no easy proxy culturally/population density/geographically/historically to the US.  We should be able to factor in context differences without completely giving up on available data.  Not saying you're doing that here, just pointing out that the context argument can be taken too far.

Agree 100%  I'm very happy to have a discussion now with anyone that is capable of viewing it contextually as you are doing above.  I don't think any country has been perfect, far from it.

3 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

NOT WEARING A MASK IS LINKED TO ANTISOCIAL TRAITS, STUDY FINDS

Those who don’t comply with Covid-19 containment measures were found to be more callous, hostile and deceitful.

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/health-and-families/mask-wearing-anti-social-personality-traits-study-brazil-b1347252.html

 

I'm as anti antimasker as anyone, but this is just stupid.  

1 minute ago, paco said:

 

I'm as anti antimasker as anyone, but this is just stupid.  

but did you view the nuance contextually?  huh? did you? 

5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said:

but did you view the nuance contextually?  huh? did you? 

I did in the context of his general take on things  

20 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Agree 100%  I'm very happy to have a discussion now with anyone that is capable of viewing it contextually as you are doing above.  I don't think any country has been perfect, far from it.

Absolutely not.  I do think it is fair to make some initial comparisons though by looking at the area under the curve of per capita cases in similar countries, eg German vs France

4 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Absolutely not.  I do think it is fair to make some initial comparisons though by looking at the area under the curve of per capita cases in similar countries, eg German vs France

We can do that but of course you'd need to also consider the strategy of managing that curve over time.  When you say "cases" what do you mean?  Are you talking about confirmed positive cases or something else?