12 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Pick a criteria for doing good in a pandemic.

How about a mix of excess deaths over a 5yr period, performance of economy vs. other like countries over a 5yr period, performance of health industry during the 18 month main event, stability of society and government over a 24 month period, child development (mix of mental, physical, and education) over a 5yr period, and rate of change in overall happiness and quality of life indexes over a 5yr period?  I certainly missed a few but this is a good start.

44 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I don't mind the data at all.  I read about it almost every single day.  What I mind is when people take it out of context, misinterpret it, etc.

Imagine if a bunch of Americans pretended like they were experts on Sweden.  That would be weird, right??

     

 Guys, we can't judge how well countries are doing at responding to this until 2025. 

Also, please refrain from discussing this nuance any further until after November 3rd. 

I'm gonna have to start adding these dates to my calendar, lest I forget.

1 hour ago, Dave Moss said:

Imagine if a bunch of Americans pretended like they were experts on Sweden.  That would be weird, right??

     

Yeah no sheet.  Those other posters have no clue.

51 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

 Guys, we can't judge how well countries are doing at responding to this until 2025. 

Also, please refrain from discussing this nuance any further until after November 3rd. 

I'm gonna have to start adding these dates to my calendar, lest I forget.

Too Fing funny.  Sometimes you're a full blown quack.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

How about a mix of excess deaths over a 5yr period, performance of economy vs. other like countries over a 5yr period, performance of health industry during the 18 month main event, stability of society and government over a 24 month period, child development (mix of mental, physical, and education) over a 5yr period, and rate of change in overall happiness and quality of life indexes over a 5yr period?  I certainly missed a few but this is a good start.

The five year COVID crisis?

So you want to compare Sweden, pre-COVID, to other nations because that is really the only fair way to evaluate their COVID response this year?

Really. Imagine that. Quite a metric you chose. I think I prefer not to play whatever childish game you hope to play.

12 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

Yeah no sheet.  Those other posters have no clue.

Too Fing funny.  Sometimes you're a full blown quack.

You've been clowning yourself in here pretty hard today. Maybe you'll be ready to answer the questions tomorrow.

26 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

The five year COVID crisis?

So you want to compare Sweden, pre-COVID, to other nations because that is really the only fair way to evaluate their COVID response this year?

Really. Imagine that. Quite a metric you chose. I think I prefer not to play whatever childish game you hope to play.

Childish to look at the overall effects the pandemic has on a country over time. Got it. 

You sound like a Trumpbot. 

So I heard from a personal friend and a good reliable source last night that the drug companies (one of which he works for) are really nowhere near solving this and releasing a vaccine.  There have been at least 4 "mutations” of the virus and they’re basically chasing a moving target.  All of what we’ve heard about it being "weeks” is total BS, not that we believed that Schmuck anyway but we are much further away than we are being told.  It could be 5 years before a reliable vaccine is found because they won’t know the mutation types and numbers for at least that long.  You need historical data.  All the more reason why I won’t get in lines for any covid vaccine - it’s almost entirely pointless.  

23 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

You've been clowning yourself in here pretty hard today. Maybe you'll be ready to answer the questions tomorrow.

I’ve been ready for several months but Trump prevents a nuanced discussion from occurring in the US. Once he’s gone we can hopefully return to real reasonable and nuanced discussion on difficult topics. 

2 minutes ago, DBW said:

So I heard from a personal friend and a good reliable source last night that the drug companies (one of which he works for) are really nowhere near solving this and releasing a vaccine.  There have been at least 4 "mutations” of the virus and they’re basically chasing a moving target.  All of what we’ve heard about it being "weeks” is total BS, not that we believed that Schmuck anyway but we are much further away than we are being told.  It could be 5 years before a reliable vaccine is found because they won’t know the mutation types and numbers for at least that long.  You need historical data.  All the more reason why I won’t get in lines for any covid vaccine - it’s almost entirely pointless.  

HERD IMMUNITY is the final destination.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

I’ve been ready for several months but Trump prevents a nuanced discussion from occurring in the US. Once he’s gone we can hopefully return to real reasonable and nuanced discussion on difficult topics. 

You're dreaming.  Its 100% the clickbait and soundbite era.  It's only going to get worse.

I’m resigned to wearing a mask for the rest of my life.

4 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

I’ve been ready for several months but Trump prevents a nuanced discussion from occurring in the US. Once he’s gone we can hopefully return to real reasonable and nuanced discussion on difficult topics. 

"Hey, doc, do you agree the evidence is weak to support mask wearing?"

"I cAn'T aNsWeR bECaUsE tRuMp."

2 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

I’m resigned to wearing a mask for the rest of my life.

you can do what you want but I am not

Agree.  It reminded me of when Mulvaney admitted to the quid pro quo and it took a few days for it to register.  Lol

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

"Hey, doc, do you agree the evidence is weak to support mask wearing?"

"I cAn'T aNsWeR bECaUsE tRuMp."

The thing is it really isn’t funny at all. You’re making fun of a situation that has killed a couple hundred thousand Americans so far. I remember when you laughed at both me and TEW back in late January for suggesting this thing could actually kill a 100k or more. 

12 minutes ago, DBW said:

So I heard from a personal friend and a good reliable source last night that the drug companies (one of which he works for) are really nowhere near solving this and releasing a vaccine.  There have been at least 4 "mutations” of the virus and they’re basically chasing a moving target.  All of what we’ve heard about it being "weeks” is total BS, not that we believed that Schmuck anyway but we are much further away than we are being told.  It could be 5 years before a reliable vaccine is found because they won’t know the mutation types and numbers for at least that long.  You need historical data.  All the more reason why I won’t get in lines for any covid vaccine - it’s almost entirely pointless.  

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/26/oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-reportedly-triggers-immune-response-among-adults-.html

2 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

The thing is it really isn’t funny at all. You’re making fun of a situation that has killed a couple hundred thousand Americans so far. I remember when you laughed at both me and TEW back in late January for suggesting this thing could actually kill a 100k or more. 

Pretty sure he’s making fun of you pretending like we can’t discuss masks because of Trump, not mocking the actual pandemic.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

The thing is it really isn’t funny at all. You’re making fun of a situation that has killed a couple hundred thousand Americans so far. I remember when you laughed at both me and TEW back in late January for suggesting this thing could actually kill a 100k or more. 

Wait  second you are the one that laughed at me in March when I said 1 million people already had the virus

9 minutes ago, Arsenal79 said:

HERD IMMUNITY is the final destination.

 

You’re on the right path.  He also said the "seasonal covid” story is completely false as none of the testing they’ve done has proven that humidity and temperature have any impact on the virus.  As we’ve seen by the real world telling us this thing exists everywhere from Alaska to Hawaii to the Fing dry deserts.  

7 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/26/oxford-astrazeneca-coronavirus-vaccine-reportedly-triggers-immune-response-among-adults-.html

You missed the point. By the time this clears any final stages of testing and gets mass produced there will be 4 or 6 or a dozen more strains of the virus.  Sure they can find a vaccine for 1 of the strains or maybe a couple, but the point is it’s mutating to a degree in which they can’t keep up.  A SINGLE strain virus vaccine takes 18-24 months at minimum to test and approve and mass produce.  Even with trumps miracles and red tape cutting to reduce that down to 6-12 months, there are already 4 or more strains at play.  The virus, they think, would take 5 years to stabilize to a predictably point where it can be "controlled” like the flu.

25 minutes ago, DBW said:

So I heard from a personal friend and a good reliable source last night that the drug companies (one of which he works for) are really nowhere near solving this and releasing a vaccine.  There have been at least 4 "mutations” of the virus and they’re basically chasing a moving target.  All of what we’ve heard about it being "weeks” is total BS, not that we believed that Schmuck anyway but we are much further away than we are being told.  It could be 5 years before a reliable vaccine is found because they won’t know the mutation types and numbers for at least that long.  You need historical data.  All the more reason why I won’t get in lines for any covid vaccine - it’s almost entirely pointless.  

A couple things here, most of the leading vaccines are thus far targeting an epitope that's common amongst strains, the spike protein. So either the virus would have to mutate to a significant enough degree such that it no longer has the spike (which would make it orders of magnitude less able to infect us so readily) or thread the needle by mutating to a variant of the protein that is different enough from the current version, but similar enough to still infect ACE-2 receptors (highly unlikely given the mutation patterns we've seen over the last 8 months.) 

There's also about 50 or so candidates globally that have now entered phase III trials, so it would be impossible for your friend to have insight into the trial data of all these candidates to make such a determination. And what we've seen of phase I and phase II data is very encouraging. That's not to say the vaccines available in the next year or two will be silver bullets, but they will be pretty damn good and will go a loooong way to putting a dent into this thing (even if they only have efficacy of 40-60%.)

Hopefully that wasn't too much nuance for those who have to wait until November 4th to discuss such matters.

4 minutes ago, DBW said:

You’re on the right path.  He also said the "seasonal covid” story is completely false as none of the testing they’ve done has proven that humidity and temperature have any impact on the virus.  As we’ve seen by the real world telling us this thing exists everywhere from Alaska to Hawaii to the Fing dry deserts.  

Yea this thing is everywhere and its gonna continue spreading everywhere.  There's no stopping it.  It is what it is.

HERD IMMUNITY

2 minutes ago, DBW said:

You missed the point. By the time this clears any final stages of testing and gets mass produced there will be 4 or 6 or a dozen more strains of the virus.  Sure they can find a vaccine for 1 of the strains or maybe a couple, but the point is it’s mutating to a degree in which they can’t keep up.  

That's not how the mutation of this coronavirus works. This ain't the flu, which ironically works to our advantage in this regard.

Just now, Arsenal79 said:

Yea this thing is everywhere and its gonna continue spreading everywhere.  There's no stopping it.  It is what it is.

HERD IMMUNITY

You are insane. Get yourself committed.

9 minutes ago, DBW said:

You’re on the right path.  He also said the "seasonal covid” story is completely false as none of the testing they’ve done has proven that humidity and temperature have any impact on the virus.  As we’ve seen by the real world telling us this thing exists everywhere from Alaska to Hawaii to the Fing dry deserts.  

Seasonality doesn't mean it goes away in the summer, it just means it can spread easier in the winter. This is mostly applicable to particular climates, and is most likely due to the changes of absolute humidity in the indoor air of homes/buildings.

3 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

A couple things here, most of the leading vaccines are thus far targeting an epitope that's common amongst strains, the spike protein. So either the virus would have to mutate to a significant enough degree such that it no longer has the spike (which would make it orders of magnitude less able to infect us so readily) or thread the needle by mutating to a variant of the protein that is different enough from the current version, but different enough to still infect ACE-2 receptors (highly unlikely given the mutation patterns we've seen over the last 8 months.) 

There's also about 50 or so candidates globally that have now entered phase III trials, so it would be impossible for your friend to have insight into the trial data of all these candidates to make such a determination. And what we've seen of phase I and phase II data is very encouraging. That's not to say the vaccines available in the next year or two will be silver bullets, but they will be pretty damn good and will go a loooong way to putting a dent into this thing (even if they only have efficacy of 40-60%.)

Hopefully that wasn't too much nuance for those who have to wait until November 4th to discuss such matters.

I’m not a virologist obviously but he dumbed it down enough to understand that they’re losing the battle.  Data is shared amongst companies so there is a team effort to solving it and they would all get the code so to speak and all work to mass produce it.  This is govt money at work so they don’t get to patent it and own it.  The good news is that they have an abundance of resources and an ability to mass produce very quickly.  There’s no concerns with making it, storing it or distributing it whenever or if ever they figure it out.