6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Private venues and businesses should be able to do as they please. If the Eagles say you can only attend games if you can show proof of vaccination, there's nothing illegal about that. 

Schools already require vaccinations so I think that case has been settled. There is some question about EUA vs. fully approved that is murky at best. But private schools can clearly do whatever they want. 

We looked into the ability to mandate vaccinations among employees, but luckily, we don't employ morons so everyone voluntarily got the vaccine.

Private schools are their own world, and make their own rules. Private businesses, the same. 

I was thinking primarily in terms of public schools and their adding proof of COVID-19 vaccinations to their already existing education records ,and requiring same for in school learning. Those that refuse may choose cyber school or home school as an alternative. There are options for those folks as well.

19 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Private venues and businesses should be able to do as they please. If the Eagles say you can only attend games if you can show proof of vaccination, there's nothing illegal about that. 

Schools already require vaccinations so I think that case has been settled. There is some question about EUA vs. fully approved that is murky at best. But private schools can clearly do whatever they want. 

We looked into the ability to mandate vaccinations among employees, but luckily, we don't employ morons so everyone voluntarily got the vaccine.

We’re a little premature talking about schools because the vaccine is only approved for EUA and obviously there are some questions on whether that vaccination "rule” would be applicable in the case of EUA, but second to that is the fact that vaccines aren’t available to all school aged children yet. 12 and up yeah. Which could mean 5th or 6th graders so can you say only the vaccinated kids in some grades can come but not the others? Do you then make them virtual again? Logistically that’s a nightmare for parents and schools. Particularly if you have a kid in middle school that can be vaccinated and a kid in 2nd grade that can’t be.  In terms of legality, all 50 states have legislation requiring certain vaccines (covid is not one of them yet). 44 states allow religious exemption, 15 allow philosophical exemption, and 5 of them do not allow either, so technically only 5 states would be able to implement an absolute mandate for covid vaccination.  I suspect that anyone who doesn’t want to Vaxx their kids would file a religious exemption form even if they don’t really follow any certain religion, who’s gonna prove it? And/or they’ll take the philosophical objection approach.  It’s virtually impossible to implement an absolute mandate in all but 5 states.  Most people don’t realize they can file for exemption and they’ll just do it because they won’t want their kid to be labeled as the anti-vaccine-Whole-Foods-gluten-free-soy-boy.  
 

 

37 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

See this is the difference between people like you and people like me. I have the ability to not go full in on anything like a maniac and use logic and reason and my own thoughts to form opinions on a case by case basis. 

Seems like you're a little high strung, relax and have a cigarette or something. 

 

Nah, dude. You stated "I understand why they manipulated the data".  That's such a moronic statement.  If they had to manipulate the data to dictate your opinion... then the REAL, UNALTERED data suggested that you would not have been convinced without deceit.

HOW is that logical on your part????  

15 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

You are so full of crap.

You just used whole-population deaths of COVID.  You're misrepresenting MY risk.  Car accidents don't care about your AGE.    Your HEALTH.  Your WEIGHT.  Your RACE.

COVID does.  And MY PERSONAL RISK OF DEATH is significantly lower than the whole-population risk that YOU just used.

 

So, no, I understand statistics fully. YOU don't.  

You do realize that the reason for higher incidents among African-Americans and Latinos is because those groups have higher rates of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.? That those groups tend to live in more crowded and multi-generational households. Your whiteness doesn't protect you. 

Of course you don't realize this.

5 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You do realize that the reason for higher incidents among African-Americans and Latinos is because those groups have higher rates of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.? Your whiteness doesn't protect you. 

Of course you don't realize this.

It means that BIG SCARY DEATH NUMBER!1LKJ21LK;J312LK32121211111  BOOOOOOGEYMAN!!!!!!!!!!

 

isn't so scary. THAT is why my race matters.

5 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Nah, dude. You stated "I understand why they manipulated the data".  That's such a moronic statement.  If they had to manipulate the data to dictate your opinion... then the REAL, UNALTERED data suggested that you would not have been convinced without deceit.

HOW is that logical on your part????  

No I didn't. But if you must rephrase my statements to continue your strange argument, by all means continue. You clearly need this in your life.

5 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

You do realize that the reason for higher incidents among African-Americans and Latinos is because those groups have higher rates of obesity, hypertension, diabetes, etc.? That those groups tend to live in more crowded and multi-generational households. Your whiteness doesn't protect you. 

Of course you don't realize this.

And they are more likely to work menial jobs that put them more at risk.

We shouldn't be talking about EUA like it's some kind of roadblock, exception to the rules... It's a red herring. The pandemic provided the emergency, hence the vaccines were granted EUA. They have been tested, reviewed, deemed safe and beneficial. Only the redtape needs to catch up to be FDA approved.

IMO, The biggest stumbling block for schools is access; getting it approved for use for all ages and making sure students can get them.

2 hours ago, BirdsFanBill said:

Seems like at this point if you aren't vaccinated it is a choice. So why should I be concerned about unvaccinated people's risk in regards to covid?

Also what is the CDC supposed to do, pretend we still need masks until the entire population is vaccinated? Personally I'd much rather the CDC just share truthful information rather than manipulate the release of information to try to control the public like they did in the first place with masks in the beginning. I get the argument that it may be better for them to do that in this particular case, but I'm generally against any government agency manipulating information to control the public as a rule. 

"I get the argument" ===== "I understand"

 

No, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for manipulating data!  HOW is that LOGICAL?????  

9 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

"I get the argument" ===== "I understand"

 

No, there is NO JUSTIFICATION for manipulating data!  HOW is that LOGICAL?????  

Being able to understand why someone has a viewpoint does not come anywhere close to agreeing with it. This is why people like you can't happily exist in the world with other people. You think they are one and the same and are incapable of discussing things in reasonable manners.

1 hour ago, IFB DOG said:

You are so full of crap.

You just used whole-population deaths of COVID.  You're misrepresenting MY risk.  Car accidents don't care about your AGE.    Your HEALTH.  Your WEIGHT.  Your RACE.

COVID does.  And MY PERSONAL RISK OF DEATH is significantly lower than the whole-population risk that YOU just used.

 

So, no, I understand statistics fully. YOU don't.  

Goddamn this thread is full of stupid.

First of all, you posted a stat of what percentage of fatal car crashes had fatalities among non-seatbelt wearing riders. That alone is some statistical cherry-picking and lacks the full context necessary to understand what it means. Not to mention it's Ohio, not national, which alone is going to change things because statistics vary state to state.

Crashes and fatalities also vary significantly across age groups. But I'm not going to get into that because that's not the point. 

COVID deaths are concentrated among the elderly population. This is absolutely true. But unlike car crashes, COVID is contagious. You deciding "not to wear a seat belt" has repercussions for OTHER people who ARE more likely to die from contracting COVID. 

The vaccinations reduce the viral load. At this point we have enough data to know that it reduces the viral load sufficiently to reduce a vaccinated individual's ability to pass on the virus near-zero. What this has done is lower the reproducibility number for COVID to below 1 over the last month - that means every person who gets infected is now infecting LESS THAN 1 person.

A year ago, we were looking at reproducibility numbers in the 2-3 range. This meant outbreaks were incredibly fast growing - and it meant a high likelihood that the elderly population in a given geographic area was going to suffer high fatalities.

So we've gone from a virus that could expand exponentially through a population to one that is reducing - likely to a place where it hits some kind of statistical asymptote. 

So yeah, statistically someone in my age group, and I assume your age group, had little to fear day to day. But for the past year we were significant threat vectors for more vulnerable members of the population.

The bottom line is that it's the fact that a large enough portion of the population was willing to get the vaccine that is returning us to normalcy. Selfish a-holes who think this whole thing is overblown or some kind of hoax, or just that because they personally don't have enough to gain from the vaccine, will benefit by coming along for the ride. So, you're welcome.

To me, the question of an individual getting the vaccine (barring medically valid reasons for not getting it) is the Shopping Cart Theory in a health context. Some, clearly, have revealed something about their character in their selfish refusal to step up. 

Is there a risk to getting the vaccine? Yes, there is risk in everything. But your fear of the unknown as it relates to the vaccine has overridden the well established benefits not only to yourself, but to your fellow citizens, neighbors, and relatives .. and that says something about you.

edit: it's all about this: https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dsepd/ss1978/lesson1/section10.html

50 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

You are so full of crap.

You just used whole-population deaths of COVID.  You're misrepresenting MY risk.  Car accidents don't care about your AGE.    Your HEALTH.  Your WEIGHT.  Your RACE.

COVID does.  And MY PERSONAL RISK OF DEATH is significantly lower than the whole-population risk that YOU just used.

 

So, no, I understand statistics fully. YOU don't.  

Well first of all, your age and health absolutely do have an affect of your chance of surviving a serious car accident.  If you think that a healthy 20 year old and a morbidly obese 70 year old have the same chance of surviving a potentially deadly car crash, I have a bridge in Alaska I’d like to sell you.

Secondly, how fast you are driving and the type of driving you are doing also impact your chance of getting into a potentially fatal car crash.  Your chance of getting into a fatal car crash going 25 mph are significantly less than when you’re going 75 mph.  Your chance of getting into a serious car crash on a route that involves multiple left turns against opposing traffic is significantly higher than a right with few intersections and no left turns.  
So do you where a seatbelt if you are driving on a isolated road with low to medium speeds?  Do you where a seatbelt if you a driving through a parking lot. Do you wear a seat belt when driving on local roads?    Why?  You some kind of scared little sheep or something?

32 minutes ago, toolg said:

And they are more likely to work menial jobs that put them more at risk.

 

Should've been less poor.

If we keep cyberbullying IFB do you think he'll be a healthy weight by the end of bikini season? Seems to be working so far. 

1 hour ago, Phillyterp85 said:

Well first of all, your age and health absolutely do have an affect of your chance of surviving a serious car accident.  If you think that a healthy 20 year old and a morbidly obese 70 year old have the same chance of surviving a potentially deadly car crash, I have a bridge in Alaska I’d like to sell you.

Secondly, how fast you are driving and the type of driving you are doing also impact your chance of getting into a potentially fatal car crash.  Your chance of getting into a fatal car crash going 25 mph are significantly less than when you’re going 75 mph.  Your chance of getting into a serious car crash on a route that involves multiple left turns against opposing traffic is significantly higher than a right with few intersections and no left turns.  
So do you where a seatbelt if you are driving on a isolated road with low to medium speeds?  Do you where a seatbelt if you a driving through a parking lot. Do you wear a seat belt when driving on local roads?    Why?  You some kind of scared little sheep or something?

Nope, I don't.  I never wear my seat belt because I'm not a sheep. 

 

Risk assessment, right?  

42 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

If we keep cyberbullying IFB do you think he'll be a healthy weight by the end of bikini season? Seems to be working so far. 

 

Technically, BMI is now 24.9.  So, healthy .

 

Weight... wrong smiley....  That's after I spend some time with Paul's workout routine.  I can't flex for sheeesh right now.    

2 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Nope, I don't.  I never wear my seat belt because I'm not a sheep. 

 

Risk assessment, right?  

6 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

 

 

Of course I wear a seat belt. Because my risk of dying ***IF I GET IN AN ACCIDENT*** is significant.

My risk of dying ***IF I GET COVID*** is not. 

Wow, check this out...

 

Gee, how does that compare to 30-year-old white guys with normal weight range dying from COVID? Anyone...?

 

Crickets? 

11 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

Gee, how does that compare to 30-year-old white guys with normal weight range dying from COVID? Anyone...?

 

Crickets? 

wow, you're still incredibly selfish in thinking getting vaccinated is all about you.

you probably don't return your cart to the corral either do you?

2 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

wow, you're still incredibly selfish in thinking getting vaccinated is all about you.

you probably don't return your cart to the corral either do you?

Just curious, is this being ascribed to Danzig or is someone saying he’s an ahole who dumps his cart in an empty parking spot?

28 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

wow, you're still incredibly selfish in thinking getting vaccinated is all about you.

you probably don't return your cart to the corral either do you?

Counterpoint - those that are at risk should have already been vaccinated so they don't need to worry about getting it from someone who isn't.

56 minutes ago, IFB DOG said:

My risk of dying ***IF I GET COVID*** is not. 

 

...and you only care about yourself.

45 minutes ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

wow, you're still incredibly selfish in thinking getting vaccinated is all about you.

you probably don't return your cart to the corral either do you?

Not that you would have any reason to believe me, but I'm that idiot that will gather three, four, or five carts together to bring them back.  Honest to God.  I don't do a lot of shopping, mostly just Kroger, but it pisses me off how lazy people are with it.  

Besides, extra steps for my weight goals, right?

 

But back to vaccinations... I am not going to incur any unknown side effects - or chance them - over something that I am not afraid of. 

IF those high risk people are vaccinated, then there's nothing that the low-risk people can affect other than themselves.

And this hypothetical person of "unable to get vaccinated..." - WHO?  And why? And do we force 99.9999% of people to comply with something with no longer term studies in order to protect the 0.00001%?  Who is being selfish now?