June 4, 20215 yr Just now, Kz! said: Yeah, "the left" will pretend to like anyone who hates Trump. They'd literally call him Hitler if he somehow managed to become a legitimate contender for the presidency. What does that have to do with anything? Both the right and the left embrace someone who agrees with them. News at 11. But you seem to take issue with people attacking Amash, even though you've personally attacked Amash. Are you trying to pivot to being a conservative again? Don't make me pull out the post.
June 4, 20215 yr 6 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: I mean, I'm a liberal but come on. That's just not true. Implementing a socialist policy is socialism. But yeah, starting in the 70's, the right figured out how to counter socialism much more effectively and turned it into a boogyman. Of course, the end result of that messaging was Trump and their own party embracing fascism. Implementing a couple socialist programs doesn’t make you a socialist country.
June 4, 20215 yr Just now, Dave Moss said: Implementing a couple socialist programs doesn’t make you a socialist country. Well, no, I didn't say we were ever "a socialist country" but you said it's never been a thing. It's definitely been a thing and still is.
June 4, 20215 yr Britain has a MTG as well Nurse who spread Covid conspiracy theories that vaccines will 'kill you' struck off Kay Allison Shemirani claimed that symptoms of the virus were caused by 5G and called the NHS the 'new Auschwitz' Kay Allison Shemirani is believed to be the first person to be removed from the nursing register after using her status as a health professional to spread "distorted propaganda” about the pandemic. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/06/03/nurse-spread-covid-conspiracy-theories-vaccines-will-kill-struck/amp/
June 4, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, VanHammersly said: Well, no, I didn't say we were ever "a socialist country" but you said it's never been a thing. It's definitely been a thing and still is. This is a dishonest argument in all seriousness. The U.S. has basically socialized one industry in the last 100 years - medicine.
June 4, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: What does that have to do with anything? Both the right and the left embrace someone who agrees with them. News at 11. But you seem to take issue with people attacking Amash, even though you've personally attacked Amash. Are you trying to pivot to being a conservative again? Don't make me pull out the post. I'm a small government conservative, yes. I'd love for a libertarian like Amash or even a Rand Paul to win the presidency and drastically cut everything. Unfortunately that's a pipedream in today's world where we'll usually be stuck choosing between two swamp creatures, Trump being an exception to that rule in 2016.
June 4, 20215 yr 3 minutes ago, Kz! said: I'm a small government conservative, yes. I'd love for a libertarian like Amash or even a Rand Paul to win the presidency and drastically cut everything. Unfortunately that's a pipedream in today's world where we'll usually be stuck choosing between two swamp creatures, Trump being an exception to that rule in 2016. Remember, you were warned. You did this to yourself. On 5/25/2021 at 2:37 PM, Kz! said: We're kind of past the point in history where repubs have to pretend like the "free market" can fix everything. They need to start behaving like dems when they get in power, and start using the power of the government to punish their enemies.
June 4, 20215 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: Remember, you were warned. You did this to yourself. What he meant was "I'm small government when my party isn't in power"
June 4, 20215 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: Remember, you were warned. You did this to yourself. I'm still small government. I just want prominent dems punished cruelly and unusually when Trump retakes the office in 2024. After that, yes, let's get back to fiscal sanity as priority one.
June 4, 20215 yr 5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Remember, you were warned. You did this to yourself.
June 4, 20215 yr Can anyone name a single issue, besides a few Republican governors attempting to push more restrictive abortion measures, in which Republicans have moved the nation to the right on any issue recently?
June 4, 20215 yr 35 minutes ago, Kz! said: I'm still small government. I just want prominent dems punished cruelly and unusually when Trump retakes the office in August. After that, yes, let's get back to fiscal sanity as priority one.
June 4, 20215 yr 37 minutes ago, Paul852 said: What he meant was "I'm small government when my party isn't in power" 37 minutes ago, Kz! said: I'm still small government. I just want prominent dems punished cruelly and unusually when Trump retakes the office in 2024. After that, yes, let's get back to fiscal sanity as priority one. I simply never miss.
June 4, 20215 yr 49 minutes ago, Dave Moss said: This is a dishonest argument in all seriousness. The U.S. has basically socialized one industry in the last 100 years - medicine. I mean, there's plenty more socialism than just in medicine. Public schools, welfare, school lunch programs, etc. I'm not saying those are bad things, but to say nothing has been socialized isn't true.
June 4, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: I mean, there's plenty more socialism than just in medicine. Public schools, welfare, school lunch programs, etc. I'm not saying those are bad things, but to say nothing has been socialized isn't true. Um...higher education? And legit every industry the government decided to interfere with in the name of "fairness" (e.g., medicine, college, etc.) has out of control costs and is a crapshow. But don't worry, the next large government program will totally fix the damage created by the last government program. We just need to make the most progressive tax system in the world...more progressive. Democrats -- tripling down on idiotic policy Republicans -- tripling down on idiocy period
June 4, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Um...higher education? And legit every industry the government decided to interfere with in the name of "fairness" (e.g., medicine, college, etc.) has out of control costs and is a crapshow. But don't worry, the next large government program will totally fix the damage created by the last government program. We just need to make the most progressive tax system in the world...more progressive. Democrats -- tripling down on idiotic policy Republicans -- tripling down on idiocy period Plus Police, Fire, Military - these are all socialist.
June 4, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, Toastrel said: Plus Police, Fire, Military - these are all socialist. Police and fire -- local level (other than FBI, ATF, etc.) Military -- actual responsibility of the federal government delineated in the Constitution Healthcare, College, Welfare -- federal overreach achieved by a ridiculous interpretation of the general welfare clause that has perverted private industry and done incalculable damage to those it was designed to help
June 4, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Um...higher education? And legit every industry the government decided to interfere with in the name of "fairness" (e.g., medicine, college, etc.) has out of control costs and is a crapshow. But don't worry, the next large government program will totally fix the damage created by the last government program. We just need to make the most progressive tax system in the world...more progressive. Democrats -- tripling down on idiotic policy Republicans -- tripling down on idiocy period I wouldn't argue with this to some degree, but some things simply won't happen without government involvement and they absolutely should be involved. Medicine and Public Schools for starters. Higher education is different. It's not necessary and a lot of people can get by just fine with a trade school education. But, while it's easy to decry gov't involvement in necessities, it's frankly more important for our society to not allow poor people do die outside of hospitals or allow the poor to go without any education. 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: Police and fire -- local level (other than FBI, ATF, etc.) Military -- actual responsibility of the federal government delineated in the Constitution Healthcare, College, Welfare -- federal overreach achieved by a ridiculous interpretation of the general welfare clause that has perverted private industry and done incalculable damage to those it was designed to help There are literally hundreds of millions of examples of you being wrong here.
June 4, 20215 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: I wouldn't argue with this to some degree, but some things simply won't happen without government involvement and they absolutely should be involved. Medicine and Public Schools for starters. Higher education is different. It's not necessary and a lot of people can get by just fine with a trade school education. But, while it's easy to decry gov't involvement in necessities, it's frankly more important for our society to not allow poor people do die outside of hospitals or allow the poor to go without any education. And there's the extreme BS. If we didn't have Medicaid, people would die! Private charity exists. Many hospitals have a religious affiliation and give away care. But, yes, if someone with no insurance and no means gets sick and can't get charity, then...they die. That's how it works when you are an adult. If we want universal healthcare at some very basic level, then pass a Constitutional Amendment. Then have hospitals for people on public assistance, and let others opt out and get superior care that they pay for. But then that would be UNFAIR! Everyone needs to get everything for free just like Jeff Bezos or its unfair/racist/sexist/etc. Of course, I don't agree that people feeling the consequences of their decisions is bad for society. Shielding people from negative outcomes is much more dangerous.
June 4, 20215 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: And there's the extreme BS. If we didn't have Medicaid, people would die! Private charity exists. Many hospitals have a religious affiliation and give away care. But, yes, if someone with no insurance and no means gets sick and can't get charity, then...they die. That's how it works when you are an adult. If we want universal healthcare at some very basic level, then pass a Constitutional Amendment. Then have hospitals for people on public assistance, and let others opt out and get superior care that they pay for. But then that would be UNFAIR! Everyone needs to get everything for free just like Jeff Bezos or its unfair/racist/sexist/etc. Of course, I don't agree that people feeling the consequences of their decisions is bad for society. Shielding people from negative outcomes is much more dangerous. We're not going to see eye to eye on this obviously. People should be afforded basic needs like Medical care and a basic education. And like I said, there's millions of examples of people not dying b/c of gov't medical care or not living in poverty for the rest of their life because they got an education they wouldn't have been able to afford that it's more than justified. You don't think that's worth it. I do. And people usually don't choose to become sick or get into an accident and kids certainly don't choose to be born into poor families. But sheet happens and our priorities are out of whack and we're in no way following a righteous path if we decide to ignore it and let the chips fall where they may.
June 4, 20215 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: We're not going to see eye to eye on this obviously. People should be afforded basic needs like Medical care and a basic education. And like I said, there's millions of examples of people not dying b/c of gov't medical care or not living in poverty for the rest of their life because they got an education they wouldn't have been able to afford that it's more than justified. You don't think that's worth it. I do. And people usually don't choose to become sick or get into an accident and kids certainly don't choose to be born into poor families. But sheet happens and our priorities are out of whack and we're in no way following a righteous path if we decide to ignore it and let the chips fall where they may. So...if enough people agree with you... Quote Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. People don't choose to get sick. But they do choose not to be responsible and get health insurance. Now, maybe if the government didn't manipulate the market, insurance wouldn't be so expensive...but please stop telling me about people who can't afford insurance but are rocking an iPhone, iPad, 2 cars and air conditioning. They made poor choices. Kids -- different story. They are adults and shouldn't be held responsible. I'd support universal healthcare for those under 18 up to some level. As for people with student loan debt, you're making the argument for me. Get the government out of the student loan business.
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