June 4, 20214 yr Just now, Joe Shades 73 said: To what? What makes me a fake Libertarian? I am logically consistent as hell. I couldn't care less about anyone other than me, my family and my friends.
June 4, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: What makes me a fake Libertarian? I am logically consistent as hell. I couldn't care less about anyone other than me, my family and my friends. No TEW is, That is pretty much well known, for years all he does is defend Republicans but claim he is Libertarian
June 4, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: No TEW is, That is pretty much well known, for years all he does is defend Republicans but claim he is Libertarian OK, I read it as you calling me a fake Libertarian. Carry on...
June 4, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: No TEW is, That is pretty much well known, for years all he does is defend Republicans but claim he is Libertarian lol like we actually have real libertarians in here. rjc, I think wegottabelieve both claim to be libertarians, but are just huge big gov. liberals. Vikas is probably the closest, but he just supported free under 18 healthcare so I'm pretty sure that eliminates him.
June 4, 20214 yr 6 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Of course none of it will pass. We long passed the Rubicon and people are conditioned to look to the government to bail them out of their poor life choices while a small subset foots the entire bill. Nothing will stop this continuing slide into catastrophe -- this is one of the reasons (not the main one) that I don't have children. I do love the cries for Medicare. The budget is being imploded by entitlement programs, and social security is screwed because of rising life expectancy. So...let's make sure seniors live even LONGER! So smart, only liberals could come up with it. And as far as young adults not having health insurance? BOO HOO. Make better choices. Maybe get some insurance instead of that brand new iPad, Jimmy. The middle class are really the ones screwed, if you are poor you get medicaid, if rich you don't have to worry about paying for healthcare, meanwhile millions of middle class people waste money on crap then get sick and die because they can't afford healthcare
June 4, 20214 yr 5 minutes ago, vikas83 said: Of course none of it will pass. We long passed the Rubicon and people are conditioned to look to the government to bail them out of their poor life choices while a small subset foots the entire bill. Nothing will stop this continuing slide into catastrophe -- this is one of the reasons (not the main one) that I don't have children. I do love the cries for Medicare. The budget is being imploded by entitlement programs, and social security is screwed because of rising life expectancy. So...let's make sure seniors live even LONGER! So smart, only liberals could come up with it. And as far as young adults not having health insurance? BOO HOO. Make better choices. Maybe get some insurance instead of that brand new iPad, Jimmy. Again, the alternative here is repealing the EMTALA and letting people die. Because young people will have car accidents and severe allergic reactions, etc, etc, and they will be denied coverage because they don't have health insurance and they'll die. And it's easy to say let old people die because look at the numbers on this spread sheet, they just don't add up, but when that old person is your mother or father you're not going to care one bit. People aren't going to stand for either of those scenarios and they shouldn't. Like I said, it's not a righteous path and it's not something I'm okay with. The country isn't falling apart because we cover medical costs for some people. It's just not. 3 minutes ago, Kz! said: lol like we actually have real libertarians in here. rjc, I think wegottabelieve both claim to be libertarians, but are just huge big gov. liberals. Vikas is probably the closest, but he just supported free under 18 healthcare so I'm pretty sure that eliminates him. Don't make me quote the post, bro.
June 4, 20214 yr 4 minutes ago, Kz! said: lol like we actually have real libertarians in here. rjc, I think wegottabelieve both claim to be libertarians, but are just huge big gov. liberals. Vikas is probably the closest, but he just supported free under 18 healthcare so I'm pretty sure that eliminates him.
June 4, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, Kz! said: lol like we actually have real libertarians in here. rjc, I think wegottabelieve both claim to be libertarians, but are just huge big gov. liberals. Vikas is probably the closest, but he just supported free under 18 healthcare so I'm pretty sure that eliminates him. He is not going to be happy with this comment
June 4, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, Kz! said: I'm a small government conservative, yes. I'd love for a libertarian like Amash or even a Rand Paul to win the presidency and drastically cut everything. Unfortunately that's a pipedream in today's world where we'll usually be stuck choosing between two swamp creatures, Trump being an exception to that rule in 2016. So you don't believe in things restrictive Abortion laws? the death penalty? terrific
June 4, 20214 yr 3 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: He is not going to be happy with this comment Yea I'm totally crushed someone who doesn't understand that libertarians are socially liberal thinks I'm a liberal because of it. It might be worth arguing if the poor sap didn't also happen to be literally the dumbest organism to breathe oxygen.
June 4, 20214 yr 30 minutes ago, Phillyterp85 said: There's a difference between having a safety net for the subset of society that's temporarily down on their luck, and having programs that people end up depending on permanently. Even Hayek wasn't against having a safety net. But we've gone welllllllll beyond that in many ways. EMTALA is another example of a government program started with altruistic means that has turned into a primary dependency for people and causes prices to rise. And the ACA has only made the problem worse. It was started with altruistic means because it's literally a life or death problem. Are there financial downsides to it? Sure, but it's worth it. It's the difference between people dying without medical care and them living. Focus on the numbers if you want but the upside for saving people's life is going to outweigh any math you throw most people's way. And Medicare wasn't designed for people temporarily down on their luck. It was designed for people to die with dignity. Again, it's about priorities as a society. For me, some things are too important. Medical care is one of those things. I understand the other side of this issue, I just fundamentally disagree with it.
June 4, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: It was started with altruistic means because it's literally a life or death problem. Are there financial downsides to it? Sure, but it's worth it. It's the difference between people dying without medical care and them living. Focus on the numbers if you want but the upside for saving people's life is going to outweigh any math you throw most people's way. And Medicare wasn't designed for people temporarily down on their luck. It was designed for people to die with dignity. Again, it's about priorities as a society. For me, some things are too important. Medical care is one of those things. I understand the other side of this issue, I just fundamentally disagree with it. I mean, you're going to make me keep doing it: Quote Article V The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate. Pass an amendment making basic healthcare a right. I'll even give the idea a fair consideration. What I won't do is just ignore the limits in our founding document because...feelings. We have a mechanism to address the change in societal norms -- use it. Let's start here -- what's the societal benefit in preventing death among the elderly or irresponsible?
June 4, 20214 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I mean, you're going to make me keep doing it: Pass an amendment making basic healthcare a right. I'll even give the idea a fair consideration. What I won't do is just ignore the limits in our founding document because...feelings. We have a mechanism to address the change in societal norms -- use it. Let's start here -- what's the societal benefit in preventing death among the elderly or irresponsible? You want some hard numbers here, but obviously no one can show a tangible benefit to saving the life of someone's mother or son except the fact that, you know, you're saving the life of someone's mother or son. You want people to be robots but they're human beings who care about their loved ones. No one's willing to let their kid die to satisfy some libertarian fantasy. They're just not.
June 4, 20214 yr 24 minutes ago, Joe Shades 73 said: He is not going to be happy with this comment Thanks for the heads up, I'll keep an eye out for any angry looking, child-size "libertarians." You can never be too careful.
June 4, 20214 yr By the way, @Dave Moss, thanks for backing me up here. I started this convo with you as the contrarian against socialism and now I'm Van, Defender of Socialism.
June 4, 20214 yr 2 hours ago, Kz! said: Can anyone name a single issue, besides a few Republican governors attempting to push more restrictive abortion measures, in which Republicans have moved the nation to the right on any issue recently? OK, last chance, ishlibs, or I'm claiming victory and taking a huge W into the weekend with me. Name one way in which Repubs have moved us to the right on any issue besides abortion over the last ten years or so.
June 4, 20214 yr Just now, VanHammersly said: I'm Van, Defender of Socialism. this should be your sig.
June 4, 20214 yr 7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: You want some hard numbers here, but obviously no one can show a tangible benefit to saving the life of someone's mother or son except the fact that, you know, you're saving the life of someone's mother or son. You want people to be robots but they're human beings who care about their loved ones. No one's willing to let their kid die to satisfy some libertarian fantasy. They're just not. I care about my loved ones. If one of them got sick, I'd...wait for it...care for them. I'd pay whatever it takes. I have. I give money to charity to help with medical care and research. I do this of my own free will. I'm not asking anyone to let their kid die to fulfill anything. I'm asking them to take care of themselves and their own. You are demanding that I pay to care for them because it matters to THEM, and you are using the coercion of government and the potential for jail time to do it. And you are demanding that other responsible people pay for the irresponsible because...feelings. 8 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: money isn't love, vikas. money isn't love. The hookers say otherwise.
June 4, 20214 yr Just now, vikas83 said: I care about my loved ones. If one of them got sick, I'd...wait for it...care for them. I'd pay whatever it takes. I have. I give money to charity to help with medical care and research. I do this of my own free will. I'm not asking anyone to let their kid die to fulfill anything. I'm asking them to take care of themselves and their own. You are demanding that I pay to care for them because it matters to THEM, and you are using the coercion of government and the potential for jail time to do it. And you are demanding that other responsible people pay for the irresponsible because...feelings. I might be jumping into this without full context but with medical coverage in this country it isn't that black and white. Not being able to pay for a procedure doesn't necessarily mean "irresponsible". Again, my apologies if this is out of context and I missed something in your previous posts.
June 4, 20214 yr Just now, Paul852 said: I might be jumping into this without full context but with medical coverage in this country it isn't that black and white. Not being able to pay for a procedure doesn't necessarily mean "irresponsible". Again, my apologies if this is out of context and I missed something in your previous posts. If you are an adult with children and can't afford medical insurance, you are by DEFINITION irresponsible. Why did you have kids if you can't care for them? Someone post the opening scene from Idiocracy please.
June 4, 20214 yr 1 minute ago, Paul852 said: I might be jumping into this without full context but with medical coverage in this country it isn't that black and white. Not being able to pay for a procedure doesn't necessarily mean "irresponsible". Again, my apologies if this is out of context and I missed something in your previous posts. Stop being poor.
June 4, 20214 yr Just now, Dave Moss said: Stop being poor.Stop being poor. No, if you're poor, don't have kids and then ask me to take care of them. Or your mom. Or your spouse. Be poor all you want and tell yourself money can't buy love so you feel better about being a failure. But leave me the eff alone.
June 4, 20214 yr Just now, vikas83 said: If you are an adult with children and can't afford medical insurance, you are by DEFINITION irresponsible. Why did you have kids if you can't care for them? Someone post the opening scene from Idiocracy please. I guess I'm thinking of stuff that isn't covered as opposed to NOT having coverage at all. I agree with not having medical coverage with kids is irresponsible. Just now, vikas83 said: No, if you're poor, don't have kids and then ask me to take care of them. Or your mom. Or your spouse. Be poor all you want and tell yourself money can't buy love so you feel better about being a failure. But leave me the eff alone.
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