21 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I think we're talking past each other a bit. There's a difference between what can be done at the federal level vs the state and local levels. Guidance from the CDC isn't a mask mandate, that's left up to governors. And as a governor in a state like Mississippi, with an abysmal vax rate, and increasingly burdened hospitals, there are few options left. Lockdowns are a non-starter from an economic perspective. Anything that's a de facto vaccine mandate from the state government is probably wading into some murky waters from a legal perspective. On the other hand, mask mandates are perfectly legal and likely seen as a lower hanging fruit from a public health policy perspective. Yes, it absolutely sucks for the vaccinated people in those states to have to wear masks again, but what are the other options a governor has at their disposal right now? 

The Governors in those states will not impose a mask mandate but some in states where the virus is not out of control will, what exactly does this solve?

 

We are on the road to vaccine mandates, can we just go there now please.

Just now, Joe Shades 73 said:

The Governors in those states will not impose a mask mandate but some in states where the virus is not out of control will, what exactly does this solve?

They might not have a choice. You cannot let hospitals get overrun.

16 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I agree with 1 and 2, but not as sure on 3 and 4. Seems like it's crossing a line of the federal government dictating to private companies how to run their business. Maybe things would have to happen at a state level but even then the question of legality might persist until a BLA is issued by the FDA.

Do number 1 and vaccination rates will skyrocket. Owning libs is all fun and games until you have to pay for your own stupidity. 

Doesn’t EagleVa work for the federal govt??

uh-oh

Just now, vikas83 said:

Do number 1 and vaccination rates will skyrocket. Owning libs is all fun and games until you have to pay for your own stupidity. 

I still think a huge opportunity was missed when they didn't tie some portion of the last stimulus payment to proof of vaccination. We handed out way too much money as it was, but to not get these rubes to put forth a minimal amount of effort to earn some of it was just idiotic.

30 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I think we're talking past each other a bit. There's a difference between what can be done at the federal level vs the state and local levels. Guidance from the CDC isn't a mask mandate, that's left up to governors. And as a governor in a state like Mississippi, with an abysmal vax rate, and increasingly burdened hospitals, there are few options left. Lockdowns are a non-starter from an economic perspective. Anything that's a de facto vaccine mandate from the state government is probably wading into some murky waters from a legal perspective. On the other hand, mask mandates are perfectly legal and likely seen as a lower hanging fruit from a public health policy perspective. Yes, it absolutely sucks for the vaccinated people in those states to have to wear masks again, but what are the other options a governor has at their disposal right now? 

Delaware is 70% vaccinated and we can pretty much count on mask mandates in schools and public places if that’s what the cdc says because well, it’s bidens state for one and for 2 they followed the cdc to the T on everything to this point.  

Just now, DBW said:

Delaware is 70% vaccinated and we can pretty much count on mask mandates in schools and public places if that’s what the cdc says because well, it’s bidens state for one and for 2 they followed the cdc to the T on everything to this point.  

Mask mandates for schools makes perfect sense for U12 until they can be vaccinated.

1 minute ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Mask mandates for schools makes perfect sense for U12 until they can be vaccinated.

Agreed for the kids to wear masks, but teachers and staff that are vaccinated shouldn’t have to.  

Just now, DBW said:

Agreed for the kids to wear masks, but teachers and staff that are vaccinated shouldn’t have to.  

Agreed.

27 minutes ago, Dave Moss said:

Notice the third point

Have they released data on that? 

14 minutes ago, DBW said:

Delaware is 70% vaccinated and we can pretty much count on mask mandates in schools and public places if that’s what the cdc says because well, it’s bidens state for one and for 2 they followed the cdc to the T on everything to this point.  

Honestly, I haven’t seen that kids really care all that much about masks. Probably because they aren’t as whiny as their parents. Of course no one likes them but at least in my kids school there were no issues with kids keeping their masks on. My son is vaccinated and I’m in Florida so he won’t likely have to wear one this year. He is in private school and they are planning on requiring masks unless they have proof of the vaccine. Unless Desantis forbids it to appease the morons (his base) I guess.

Just wear a mask in public to control spread of the virus, whether you are vaccinated or not. It isn't difficult to do. Really.

Data is showing even vaccinated folks can spread the delta variant. That's why CDC had to rollback the facemask use guidelines. Vaccination will still protect you against severe illness.

The point is to limit transmission. Because as the virus spreads, it can cause more mutations.

Been listening to our school board meeting discussing masks/etc.

The among of goddamn ignorance among parents is appalling.

One parent, who got a lot of applause of course, basically argued that unvaccinated kids having to wear masks is an "every life matters" argument and if so we might as well just eliminate all risky behaviors like swimming and driving in cars. Because asking one to wear a mask is totally the same level of inconvenience as not being able to drive or take part in sports.

Many other parents pulled all kinds of meaningless statistics to great applause by some.

To be sure there is a lot of support for the pro-mask side, and plenty of applause for people who speak to that, but man Dunning-Kruger is on full display. 

15 minutes ago, Jsvand12 said:

Honestly, I haven’t seen that kids really care all that much about masks. Probably because they aren’t as whiny as their parents. Of course no one likes them but at least in my kids school there were no issues with kids keeping their masks on. My son is vaccinated and I’m in Florida so he won’t likely have to wear one this year. He is in private school and they are planning on requiring masks unless they have proof of the vaccine. Unless Desantis forbids it to appease the morons (his base) I guess.

Yeah our kids are used to it now.  But my wife is a vaxxed teacher.  As an employee she shouldn’t be required to but it’s going to happen.  My kids are under 12 so we will do what we need to do to protect them.  It’s more of a matter of principle for me.  They think that going backwards is a good way to get people vaccinated. It’s not.  It’s so far from what should be done.  Start laying down the hammer. 

32 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

Have they released data on that? 

I don’t know, but throwing out "twentyfold” sounds like an estimate.

So now I’m supposed to wear a mask everywhere to protect people who are complete idiots and refuse to get vaccinated? Yeah ok. 

Someone actually claimed that more people died of secondary infections during the Spanish flu pandemic.

I cannot believe my kids go to school with their kids. And this is one of the best school districts in the state.

19 minutes ago, DBW said:

Yeah our kids are used to it now.  But my wife is a vaxxed teacher.  As an employee she shouldn’t be required to but it’s going to happen.  My kids are under 12 so we will do what we need to do to protect them.  It’s more of a matter of principle for me.  They think that going backwards is a good way to get people vaccinated. It’s not.  It’s so far from what should be done.  Start laying down the hammer. 

Yea. I get that about the wife. I work at a hospital so masks are never going away for me. They just went back to mandating masks and face shields again this week because our cases went from single digits to over thirty

1 hour ago, DBW said:

Agreed for the kids to wear masks, but teachers and staff that are vaccinated shouldn’t have to.  

In a perfect world it would, but try telling a kid he has to wear a mask when you're not wearing one.

4 minutes ago, EaglesRocker97 said:

In a perfect world it would, but try telling a kid he has to wear a mask when you're not wearing one.

Honestly my kids wouldn’t care.  They’ve seen us not wearing our masks for months.  We still have them wear a mask in crowded indoor spaces or around other non vaxxed kids.  Kids are more understanding than we give them credit for.  

Got an email from my school earlier tonight that unless there is a state or national mandate face coverings will be optional. The kids have to wear them on the bus to and from school, but not in the school building.

It seemed like odd timing that they didn't communicate anything to us at all about any of their plans for the fall until tonight...

 

2 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

They might not have a choice. You cannot let hospitals get overrun.

Many of those states did not have mandates before they are not going to start now

 

?????

 

8 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

The vaccines are absolutely as effective as advertised against the variant it was developed against. 

Against a variant that early study indicates contains 1000x the viral load, they're still VERY effective, just not AS effective. You are more likely to catch Delta than the original variant, but even if you do you're unlikely to develop a severe case. You're almost guaranteed not to develop a fatal case.

Where unvaccinated are getting hospitalized and dying from Delta, vaccinated are getting mild cases and living their lives. 

And in time vaccines better equipped to deal with Delta should be available.

 

Bringing us back to the point that the people that need vaccinated people to wear masks are those people that are not vaccinated. 

6 hours ago, JohnSnowsHair said:

I don't necessarily agree with that. There are multiple components to health that have to be considered, and the whiplash of people who are vaccinated being told we need to go back to mask mandates is a lot for the population to shoulder IMHO.

People do need a return to normalcy to rebuild social cohesion and confidence that we're going to get through this thing. Mandating masks for vaccinated would be the worst thing there.

The risk to vaccinated from Delta is minimal. Get FDA approval to bump the numbers a bit, get approval for under 12, and whatever waves come at us will Darwin out the morons. That's pretty much where I'm at.

I have sympathy for the small number of people who aren't able to get the vaccine for legitimate reasons, but as long as the vaccine basically guarantees at most a mild case I'm not of the opinion that we're benefited by a heavier handed gov't. Politically or socially. And those things matter too.

The science to date does not support a return to masking for vaccinated people other than to protect the unvaccinated. That might change but that is just speculation.
 

Adding in the other nuances such as public trust, negative effects on people/society for things like mental health, the economy, etc is the nuance that has always been lacking in this topic. I’m with you here.