Another viewpoint on Howie

[Big___Al]

Lurie is the Owner. Lurie is responsible. End of story.

[toolg]

I do feel DP and the old coaching staff was not interested in coaching up young players. The players were expected to bring their best and to compete for their jobs as they are.  DP wanted to keep the roster intact; felt like they could still compete with the roster as is/was. That’s why he’s not here anymore, and a new coaching staff is in place. 

The problem with Howie is there was some breakdown in the organization. After the magic of 2017, it wasn’t working anymore. But Howie ultimately agreed with the rebuild, is why he is still here and others are not. 

[EazyEaglez]

There’s something to be said for players not developing under coaching, but there’s something wrong with the draft philosophy if you’re drafting players in higher rounds the desperately need to be developed that much. Joe Ostman isn’t bulling over Andre Dillard because the Eagles didn’t teach him technique. It’s happening because the player that was selected just isn’t good enough. Say what you want, but in a draft deep with defensive backs and Howie takes Jones it’s a problem. A draft deep with running backs and Howie takes Pumphrey. In a draft deep in receivers and Howie takes JJAW. Speaking on receivers just look at the history of receivers he’s selected and you might vomit. There’s no denying that the Eagles have struggled in their development of players, but the biggest reason as to why they’re struggling in that area is due to Howie picking the wrong guys. 

[EazyEaglez]

16 hours ago, Perforator said:

I wonder if Howie is going to be picking the game day roster again this year

 

Yes

[EagleJoe8]

5 hours ago, EazyEaglez said:

There’s something to be said for players not developing under coaching, but there’s something wrong with the draft philosophy if you’re drafting players in higher rounds the desperately need to be developed that much. Joe Ostman isn’t bulling over Andre Dillard because the Eagles didn’t teach him technique. It’s happening because the player that was selected just isn’t good enough. Say what you want, but in a draft deep with defensive backs and Howie takes Jones it’s a problem. A draft deep with running backs and Howie takes Pumphrey. In a draft deep in receivers and Howie takes JJAW. Speaking on receivers just look at the history of receivers he’s selected and you might vomit. There’s no denying that the Eagles have struggled in their development of players, but the biggest reason as to why they’re struggling in that area is due to Howie picking the wrong guys. 

Also, a deep D-line draft, and we get Shareef Miller. 

[Traveler Vic]

On 5/7/2021 at 4:56 AM, Perforator said:

I wonder if Howie is going to be picking the game day roster again this year

 

Of course he will..Otherwise all the money spent on the analytics has been waisted.

[Traveler Vic]

14 hours ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Also, a deep D-line draft, and we get Shareef Miller. 

The problem with Miller was always the spelling of his first name. If hew was Sheriff instead of Shareef..he would have been great. LOL

[PoconoDon]

Howie picked Doug's coaching staff. He hired Schwartz before he hired Doug. The main reason Doug is gone is he wanted the power to pick his own staff and Howie refused so Doug had to go. Make no mistake, the #1 problem with the Eagles is Howie Roseman.

[eagle45]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:28 PM, Rob331 said:

Let's get it straight, I understand I have a viewpoint that is not in the mainstream but here's my take. 

The problem with prior Eagles drafts hasn't been Howie, it's been the coaching staff. Except for offensive linemen like Mailata and Herbig, name an Eagle who got better under Pederson and his staff.  Still waiting.  Here are some glaring examples of good players floundering under bad coaching. Wentz - he regressed. Sanders - he regressed, Goedert - he regressed. Maddox - he regressed. Rasul never developed, Sidney never developed, Barnett never got better, and it goes on. JJAW - a consensus good pick until Doug's coaches got hold of him. Fulgham - worse as time went on. Gerry never got better. Even our kicker got worse over time. 

This actually goes back to the Chip Kelly days and the fact that Doug kept so many of Chip's assistant coaches doomed the young players.  They might have been good with vets, but terrible with young guys. 

So even if we disagree, let's at least acknowledge that a good draft pick can be stifled or even ruined by a lack of good coaching and that lack of good coaching except for Stout has been here for all of Doug's tenure. 

 

You lost me on JJAW as a consensus good pick.

Everyone knew Barnett would never get better.  He was a low-talent, high-polish, high-production "you get what he is" pick.

Maddox and Wentz did regress.  I wouldn't say Goedert regressed, but he hasn't really improved much, ditto Sanders.  

But yes, a good pick can be stifled.  I think that applies to a lot of players in the secondary.  On offense, I think they just made bad picks.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, eagle45 said:

Everyone knew Barnett would never get better.  He was a low-talent, high-polish, high-production "you get what he is" pick.

I'm not sure about that. He had a high motor and he was very very young coming out of college so there was room for him to grow and improve. 

[Mike030270]

Fire Howie

That is all

[EagleJoe8]

Just now, Mike030270 said:

Fire Howie

That is all

We should all just get this tattooed. 

[Rob331]

On 5/7/2021 at 11:22 AM, Aerolithe_Lion said:

Fletcher Cox, Brandon Graham, Zach Ertz, Nick Foles, JASON KELCE, Mychal Kendricks was actually finally good toward the end of his tenure with Doug/Schwartz

All came before this coaching staff. You're helping to make the original point that the lack of player development has been the problem. 

[Aerolithe_Lion]

8 minutes ago, Rob331 said:

All came before this coaching staff. You're helping to make the original point that the lack of player development has been the problem. 

But they developed under this coaching staff to be better than they ever were.

 

you could argue every single person Doug’s coaching staff draft  played the best NFL football of their life up to that point. Warping semantics can make any argument.

[birdman#12]

On 5/6/2021 at 6:58 PM, time2rock said:

Player development had been a really sore spot under the previous coaching regime for sure.  But Howie’s drafts have also been pretty bad overall.  It doesn’t have to be one or the other ... it is both.  

How can you tell that?  If a player, who is drafted where he was slotted by the majority of scouts, struggles in the pros, is it the coaching or were all the scouts wrong?

I find it hard to believe that the scouting has been so bad.  Maybe Howie isn't listening to them, but the vast majority of his picks have been properly slotted.

I think most of the issue was Pedersen and his staff.....with the exception or Reich, defilippo, duce and stoutland.  Reich and Defilippo left after the super bowl, which I think contributed to Wentz's struggles. Pedersen and the rest of the staff, especially the WR & DB coaches, just didn't do a good job.

Sirianni and his coaches are younger and known for developing and getting the most out of young guys......I hope that continues here.

[greend]

Howie doesn't know how to draft. Pederson didn't know how to use players. It's as simple as that.

[Kz!]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:28 PM, Rob331 said:

Let's get it straight, I understand I have a viewpoint that is not in the mainstream but here's my take. 

The problem with prior Eagles drafts hasn't been Howie, it's been the coaching staff. Except for offensive linemen like Mailata and Herbig, name an Eagle who got better under Pederson and his staff.  Still waiting.  Here are some glaring examples of good players floundering under bad coaching. Wentz - he regressed. Sanders - he regressed, Goedert - he regressed. Maddox - he regressed. Rasul never developed, Sidney never developed, Barnett never got better, and it goes on. JJAW - a consensus good pick until Doug's coaches got hold of him. Fulgham - worse as time went on. Gerry never got better. Even our kicker got worse over time. 

This actually goes back to the Chip Kelly days and the fact that Doug kept so many of Chip's assistant coaches doomed the young players.  They might have been good with vets, but terrible with young guys. 

So even if we disagree, let's at least acknowledge that a good draft pick can be stifled or even ruined by a lack of good coaching and that lack of good coaching except for Stout has been here for all of Doug's tenure. 

 

Alas, now all we can do is sit and wonder about just how great JJ Arcega-Whiteside and Nate Gerry could have been had Doug not irreparably stunted their development.  

[Talonblood]

On 5/6/2021 at 2:28 PM, Rob331 said:

Let's get it straight, I understand I have a viewpoint that is not in the mainstream but here's my take. 

The problem with prior Eagles drafts hasn't been Howie, it's been the coaching staff. Except for offensive linemen like Mailata and Herbig, name an Eagle who got better under Pederson and his staff.  Still waiting.  Here are some glaring examples of good players floundering under bad coaching. Wentz - he regressed. Sanders - he regressed, Goedert - he regressed. Maddox - he regressed. Rasul never developed, Sidney never developed, Barnett never got better, and it goes on. JJAW - a consensus good pick until Doug's coaches got hold of him. Fulgham - worse as time went on. Gerry never got better. Even our kicker got worse over time. 

This actually goes back to the Chip Kelly days and the fact that Doug kept so many of Chip's assistant coaches doomed the young players.  They might have been good with vets, but terrible with young guys. 

So even if we disagree, let's at least acknowledge that a good draft pick can be stifled or even ruined by a lack of good coaching and that lack of good coaching except for Stout has been here for all of Doug's tenure. 

 

....and they won the Super Bowl. 

[Rob331]

On 5/14/2021 at 9:49 AM, Talonblood said:

.and they won the Super Bowl. 

with guys developed before Doug got here and with free agents already developed. 

[Talonblood]

11 hours ago, Rob331 said:

with guys developed before Doug got here and with free agents already developed. 

If that were true, they would have "ALREADY" won a Super Bowl before Doug got here. 

[Madriver]

On 5/7/2021 at 8:46 AM, Penn7980 said:

Howie needs to pair up with a scout-background personnel guy, and/or he take the inputs from the coaches.  He still has the urges to go bargain hunting and trading picks.  In the draft just completed, Howie maybe under the instruction from Lurie to go with the talents and not play the trading games.

Tried that with Joe Douglas with decidedly mixed results.

[UK_EaglesFan89]

On 5/7/2021 at 2:46 PM, Penn7980 said:

Howie needs to pair up with a scout-background personnel guy, and/or he take the inputs from the coaches.  He still has the urges to go bargain hunting and trading picks.  In the draft just completed, Howie maybe under the instruction from Lurie to go with the talents and not play the trading games.

I just don't think that's the answer. They did that with Joe Douglas, I believe Weidl is a football guy? And let's be honest Howie has football guys around him. The problem is he seems to think he knows best and he goes away from the board. 

[mjkvol]

On 5/9/2021 at 9:01 AM, eagle45 said:

Everyone knew Barnett would never get better.  He was a low-talent, high-polish, high-production "you get what he is" pick.

As much as it pains me to say it, you're correct regarding Barnett, although I wouldn't classify him as "low talent".      I watched every game he played at UT, and he remains one of my all time favorite Vols, a gamer and a leader of the highest order.          That being said, I saw him as a late 1st / early 2nd kind of pick who would be a rotational DE that would have a long, solid career and be a benefit to whoever he played with.          That's not the player you want at #14 - that guy has to be an impact player, a difference maker, and that was never who Barnett was going to be as a pro.           Drafting very few real impact players and difference makers with high picks has been IMO the biggest problem the Eagles have had in the last 20+ years.

 

[Guest]

On 5/14/2021 at 5:20 AM, Kz! said:

Alas, now all we can do is sit and wonder about just how great JJ Arcega-Whiteside and Nate Gerry could have been had Doug not irreparably stunted their development.  

The fact that this is the best post in this thread says all you need to know about how bad Howie Roseman is.

[Infam]

On 5/6/2021 at 11:56 PM, vaff said:

I think that’s the main reason Doug got fired. Can’t expect to rebuild a young team with a coaching staff that struggles with player development. Certainly Howie is also at fault, but you’re right that our last coaching staff struggled in that area.

The way Lurie said that the new coach has to be a leader of coaches (first thing he said) still resonates with me.

Felt like DP -whom I liked- was not.