Captain F Posted May 31, 2021 Author Share Posted May 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Infam said: Got to disagree with you there. Not because we are a star receiver away from SB-contenders, but I think having Ward as the vet receiver ain't good enough. Jones in that room would probably help both Smith and Reagor. No, I don't think a guy like Jeffery would've provided the same. There is something to learning from a star that still is playing like one. Is that and the prospect of a few years of having him play here worth a first? Not sure, but I think it might be. We do need an X, so the fit is pretty good. And stop talking about the cap. Just please. Stop it. 😄 Agreed on all parts. Him coming here would be a huge boost to Smith and Reagor and possibly/hopefully Hurts. Bringing in a vet like Jones to work with those 3 young guys could pay huge dividends later. You are getting much more than just the player. Mentorship can go a long ways. Smith and Reagor have NO ONE to guide them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleTen Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 One of the biggest bonuses for me, if we did somehow land Julio, is we could finally rid ourselves of both Hightower and JJAW...both are out and out not NFL calibre WRs, and normally wouldn't get airtime on 31 other teams, but right now, the way our WR corps looks, chances are one of them is probably going to be wearing green in '21... 😞 That, along with a true top WR with all that brings to a team, is why I'd love to see Julio in Philly...though personally, I don't see it happening...but it's nice to dream! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleVA Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, brkmsn said: Honestly, you should be mad if he wasn't involved. Whenever a player becomes available, the GM should "look into" that player. Seems to me you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say the above as well as "Jones is still a top WR when healthy. He just doesn't fit what this team needs moving forward. We need a couple seasons with more "value" players and less "top-paid" players to get our future cap under control." I agree with "He just doesn't fit what this team needs moving forward. We need a couple seasons......" so why bother to "look into" Jones, he should immediately know that pursuing him isn't the way to go. The Howie must learn to value draft picks which he clearly doesn't, the fool is itching to trade those #1's (the team's future) for patch work players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNOORDA Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, What The F said: Agreed on all parts. Him coming here would be a huge boost to Smith and Reagor and possibly/hopefully Hurts. Bringing in a vet like Jones to work with those 3 young guys could pay huge dividends later. You are getting much more than just the player. Mentorship can go a long ways. Smith and Reagor have NO ONE to guide them. Something to be said for this really. It isn’t just about winning now. It’s about hurts and this young wr Corp seeing developing the right way and Julio can certainly help in that regard and push these youngsters if you really think hurts is the future bring Julio in now isn’t the worst idea in the world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 4 hours ago, Infam said: Got to disagree with you there. Not because we are a star receiver away from SB-contenders, but I think having Ward as the vet receiver ain't good enough. Jones in that room would probably help both Smith and Reagor. No, I don't think a guy like Jeffery would've provided the same. There is something to learning from a star that still is playing like one. Is that and the prospect of a few years of having him play here worth a first? Not sure, but I think it might be. We do need an X, so the fit is pretty good. And stop talking about the cap. Just please. Stop it. 😄 I have no problem with a veteran presence at each position to help mentor the younger players, but Jones needs to be a team's #1 because that's the level of player he already is. He's a player you build around, not someone you try to replace right away with the young guys. It works for teams that can afford a top player's (at his position) contract. Maybe I'm higher on Smith than you are, but I believe he's a true #1 from day one --- even if he's primarily the Z for us. I'm also not down on Fulgham as the X like so many other Eagles fans. He may not be a 50/50 guy like Jeffery was, but I honestly believe he can be a more productive X than Jeffery was for us at any time. I simply refuse to believe you can play like him for 5 straight weeks and it's just a fluke. Sure, he followed that with 2 forgettable games, but he demonstrated what he could do when there were no other healthy targets (something nobody talks about). I'm not worried about our cap, but I do understand that currently it is limiting things we can do. In order to make Jones work, we'd probably have to let go of at least 2 good players. We're likely to get rid of Ertz anyway, but we don't need to lose a guy like Barnett even if fans don't appreciate him. It all comes down to what the expectations are for this team. Many fans have already written off 2021. There are articles about it (poorly written, IMO). I'm not writing off this team as it currently stands. But say I'm wrong and the negadelphians are right ... is giving up young players and/or draft picks for Jones and his contract a good investment for 2022 or 2023? That's what Howie has to decide. Acquiring Jones would be akin to what we did in 2018 and 2019 when we went all in trying to recapture 2017. If it doesn't pay off, then it hinders the immediate future. Now, what if Howie gets that price way down? A first is ridiculous at this time. I don't for a minute think Howie would consider that. But as these things drag out, something weird could happen and then, maybe the cost to acquire him makes not trading for him the bad move. The big question is, "how much does the potential acquisition help the team compared to what it will cost the team?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike030270 Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 9 minutes ago, SNOORDA said: Something to be said for this really. It isn’t just about winning now. It’s about hurts and this young wr Corp seeing developing the right way and Julio can certainly help in that regard and push these youngsters if you really think hurts is the future bring Julio in now isn’t the worst idea in the world. It is for a 1st round pick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 3 hours ago, EagleVA said: Seems to me you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. You say the above as well as "Jones is still a top WR when healthy. He just doesn't fit what this team needs moving forward. We need a couple seasons with more "value" players and less "top-paid" players to get our future cap under control." I agree with "He just doesn't fit what this team needs moving forward. We need a couple seasons......" so why bother to "look into" Jones, he should immediately know that pursuing him isn't the way to go. The Howie must learn to value draft picks which he clearly doesn't, the fool is itching to trade those #1's (the team's future) for patch work players. I'm only saying you're acting like the deal had been done and are already criticizing the "move." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swoop Posted May 31, 2021 Share Posted May 31, 2021 Nah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleVA Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 5 hours ago, brkmsn said: I'm only saying you're acting like the deal had been done and are already criticizing the "move." I criticizing the idea that he's even considering any move which involves surrending a #1 pick for a WR that's at the end of his career......Atlanta wants a #1 and they're lookig for a fool to pay up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkmsn Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, EagleVA said: I criticizing the idea that he's even considering any move which involves surrending a #1 pick for a WR that's at the end of his career......Atlanta wants a #1 and they're lookig for a fool to pay up. The Eagles wanted a Stafford like deal for Wentz. That didn't stop interested teams from making their own offers. Howie is "considering" a player that is available. Nowhere does it say he's considering sending a #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaLennie Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 hour ago, brkmsn said: The Eagles wanted a Stafford like deal for Wentz. That didn't stop interested teams from making their own offers. Howie is "considering" a player that is available. Nowhere does it say he's considering sending a #1. He could be trying to unload a player currently on the roster for Julio (Ertz?), perhaps with or for lower draft picks. He could be doing a lot of things. The idea that he is irresponsible with draft picks is simply not supported by one shred of evidence. You can criticize his draft pick evaluations, you can criticize his approach the past 3 or 4 years (signing older veterans to try to maximize a perceived window, veterans who as older players not unpredictably had a cavalcade of injuries), you can criticize the Dream Team signings, you can criticize plenty (though most of the criticism of him is overblown), but he has never ever been irresponsible with draft picks and has been a highly effective trader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cochis_Calhoun Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Putting aside the Cap questions, (which are huge, you are going to be decimating another part of the team to add Jones to a WR room that already has 2 first round picks), if Atlanta do want a first or no dice there's no way you make that deal, 26 year old Julio Jones is worth 1st Rounders, there's never been a 32 year old WR worth a 1st rounder, you've got maybe a year or two of peak production left. It doesn't make sense cap wise, it doesn't make sense draft capital wise and it doesn't make sense from a team goals perspective, Jones is the one last piece for the offense on a team that is nearly there, we're 2 years away from nearly there unless Doug was literally the worst football coach on Gods Earth. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walkdawalk Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Pass. Think he will end up in KC and have like 5000 yards and 200 tds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vee Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 17 hours ago, EagleVA said: The Howie must learn to value draft picks which he clearly doesn't, the fool is itching to trade those #1's (the team's future) for patch work players. I need an example here. Several actually, since you believe he "clearly doesn't value". Which draft picks has he foolishly traded away for patch work players? Can you provide ANY history of Howie trading 1st round picks for patchwork players? I'll wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleTen Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 I'm not sure @EagleVA specifically means our #1's (he just mentions them later in his sentence), but trading a 3rd for Golden Tate was an act of desperation, I thought... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOTW Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 20 hours ago, What The F said: Agreed on all parts. Him coming here would be a huge boost to Smith and Reagor and possibly/hopefully Hurts. Bringing in a vet like Jones to work with those 3 young guys could pay huge dividends later. You are getting much more than just the player. Mentorship can go a long ways. Smith and Reagor have NO ONE to guide them. I know it's a different position technically, but they have veteran TEs who as receiving options can also provide some of that veteran guidance. And maybe not the type of WR veteran you'd think of, but Ward at least has a few years under his belt. As much as I like veteran leadership, this team is young and growing together even the coaches. DeVonta Smith seems to be mature and has leadership qualities already and came from a college team that knows how to win and is NFL ready. I think between the leaders on the O line and TE, there's enough veteran presence in the locker room. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleVA Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 hours ago, Vee said: I need an example here. Several actually, since you believe he "clearly doesn't value". Which draft picks has he foolishly traded away for patch work players? Can you provide ANY history of Howie trading 1st round picks for patchwork players? I'll wait. If you think Howie values drafts picks then that's OK with me, personally I don't think he does As far as examples, there's one pointed out by @EagleTen below, look at giving away a 3rd to move up two spots in the past draft, then look at the picks he gave away to get Wentz, I could go on and on but I have better things to do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ManchesterEagle Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 7 hours ago, Cochis_Calhoun said: Putting aside the Cap questions, (which are huge, you are going to be decimating another part of the team to add Jones to a WR room that already has 2 first round picks), if Atlanta do want a first or no dice there's no way you make that deal, 26 year old Julio Jones is worth 1st Rounders, there's never been a 32 year old WR worth a 1st rounder, you've got maybe a year or two of peak production left. It doesn't make sense cap wise, it doesn't make sense draft capital wise and it doesn't make sense from a team goals perspective, Jones is the one last piece for the offense on a team that is nearly there, we're 2 years away from nearly there unless Doug was literally the worst football coach on Gods Earth. 2 hours ago, NOTW said: I know it's a different position technically, but they have veteran TEs who as receiving options can also provide some of that veteran guidance. And maybe not the type of WR veteran you'd think of, but Ward at least has a few years under his belt. As much as I like veteran leadership, this team is young and growing together even the coaches. DeVonta Smith seems to be mature and has leadership qualities already and came from a college team that knows how to win and is NFL ready. I think between the leaders on the O line and TE, there's enough veteran presence in the locker room. In all likelihood we are 2 years or so away from genuinely competing, but like in 2017, if a lot goes right, we could be competitive this year. (Starts with Hurts, the coaching staff and better health). But I don't see us being competitive unless we improve the D and the absolute glaring need is CB2, which we won't realistically be able to address if we trade for Jones. We may even have to lose Barnett to further weaken the D. This just isn't a fit. We brought in Smith to be our WR1 and still have another first rounder to develop along with various other young WRs who have showed varying degrees of promise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaLennie Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 5 hours ago, EagleTen said: I'm not sure @EagleVA specifically means our #1's (he just mentions them later in his sentence), but trading a 3rd for Golden Tate was an act of desperation, I thought... But then losing Tate in free agency at the end of that season earned them back an extra 4th round compensatory pick, which Roseman absolutely knew would happen. So they got Tate’s services for the year at the cost of downgrading a late 3rd round pick to a 4th round pick. There was no desperation involved at all, just a smart value proposition based on understanding and taking advantage of the free agent compensation rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain F Posted June 1, 2021 Author Share Posted June 1, 2021 1 minute ago, BayAreaLennie said: But then losing Tate in free agency at the end of that season earned them back an extra 4th round compensatory pick, which Roseman absolutely knew would happen. So they got Tate’s services for the year at the cost of downgrading a late 3rd round pick to a 4th round pick. There was no desperation involved at all, just a smart value proposition based on understanding and taking advantage of the free agent compensation rules. Humor me because I really dont know.. Lets say we trade a 2nd for Jones and then only keep him the 2 years left on his contract. What would the likely comp pick be for him in 2023? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaLennie Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 20 minutes ago, What The F said: Humor me because I really dont know.. Lets say we trade a 2nd for Jones and then only keep him the 2 years left on his contract. What would the likely comp pick be for him in 2023? The NFL does not actually publish the criteria/formula it uses in making those allocations, even though league people and outside experts have more or less reverse-engineered their way to a very good understanding of the formula. The biggest factors are how much does Julio sign for, how many free agents do the Eagles lose and how many free agents do they acquire that offseason and what are the contract terms for those players. If the Eagles sign more free agents than they lose that offseason or if Julio has degraded to where he does not command a big contract, the Eagles might well receive no comp pick for him. The Tate situation was a bit different because the Eagles understood at the time of the trade what kind of contract Tate was likely to command and that they were very likely to be a net seller in free agency in the upcoming offseason ... as a consequence becoming a bigger seller in free agency by losing Tate as well was sure to get them an extra pick very likely in the 4th round. If they had been likely to be, and then actually were, a net buyer in free agency, they would have got nothing for Tate. To a certain extent, chasing compensatory picks dictated their free agency strategy that offseason, but Roseman knew that was going to be their free agent strategy anyway so he rightfully jumped at the trade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleTen Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 18 minutes ago, BayAreaLennie said: But then losing Tate in free agency at the end of that season earned them back an extra 4th round compensatory pick, which Roseman absolutely knew would happen. So they got Tate’s services for the year at the cost of downgrading a late 3rd round pick to a 4th round pick. There was no desperation involved at all, just a smart value proposition based on understanding and taking advantage of the free agent compensation rules. Roseman absolutely did not know...Roseman hoped...there's no way he could have known what contract Tate would have been offered the following season (which is basically the crux of comp picks)...it could very easily have been a 6th, or even 7th round pick. Howie got a bit lucky getting a late 4th... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayAreaLennie Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 7 minutes ago, EagleTen said: Roseman absolutely did not know...Roseman hoped...there's no way he could have known what contract Tate would have been offered the following season (which is basically the crux of comp picks)...it could very easily have been a 6th, or even 7th round pick. Howie got a bit lucky getting a late 4th... Nah, Tate was about as ineffective as he could have possibly been with the Eagles that year and still got a contract more than sufficient for the Eagles to secure a 4th round compensatory pick for losing him. Roseman could feel extremely confident they would get a 4th rounder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsdarkstar Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 Why would Julio want to play for a QB who is not as good as Matt Ryan? Why would the Eagles trade for a WR who is on the North side of 30 and chokes in big games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerdog Posted June 1, 2021 Share Posted June 1, 2021 3 minutes ago, jsdarkstar said: Why would Julio want to play for a QB who is not as good as Matt Ryan? Why would the Eagles trade for a WR who is on the North side of 30 and chokes in big games. If Howie traded a 1st for Julio....he should be fired right after the PC announcing the trade 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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