5 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But your whole theory and explanation of rostering a player to redshirt him while protecting him is a fairly dumb way to go about it. I would just roster that player initially….then place him on IR. Done all the time practically regardless of any injury actually dictating the move.

Why place him on IR?   He can't practice.  By using the PS as your fringe game day guys, you can keep these guys practicing all year. 

I didn't get it right away...but Siri mentioned the 69 man roster??   Which only makes sense if they look at the guys on the PS as guys they want to use.

Think about it....why did they make the moves today? There must be a rule where you can start over and allow a PS guy to play more than 3 games if they go on and off the roster?

There needs to be these loopholes that they figured out just like they have with the salary cap.  We just probably need to see it happen this year first to understand it 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Now if guys get hurt and go on IR... you put one of the PS guys on the 53.

Always could work the way you have described here. Probably the most usual occurrence. But also have options. Depend on assessment of the injured players time expected out and his role importance to the team. A Lane level player you are much more willing to suck up a lost roster spot for him with any hopes he can return before the required four games placed on IR. If he could have a possibility of only missing three games even. Much less valuable players if they will miss one week you maybe need to IR them.

  But a significant enough player is considered to miss enough time….might make a bigger move to bring in somebody more worthy of the roster spot over just calling up a PS option. Basically more likely to just band aid a shorter term injury situation with covering by PS guy minimally for a game..maybe two. Longer term replacement expected to be needed then…more likely to go outside. Bring in the older vet on the street just waiting for bigger money. Possibly look to make a trade move to remedy the situation.

But rostering a guy like they did Sermon last season is dumb. Should have just put him on the PS after he fulfilled his mandatory 53 roster spot designation demanded when claiming him off waivers. Waiver order I believe was like 20 we had to get him with. So most of the league had already passed and not claimed him anyway. Plus the Niners that released him in the first place(believe they were after us in the waiver order). Only left a few teams to even consider worrying about poaching him under all those circumstances. But if they were so gung ho to protect him still..or felt strongly that one of the handful of teams behind in the waiver order really were after him…they should have placed him on IR. Obvious. No idea why he wasn’t out on IR.

They have a rule about amount of players a team can bring back from the IR each season also. So that has to be considered and is a factor. I also believe a single player can only come back once from IR in a single season.

14 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Why place him on IR?   He can't practice.  By using the PS as your fringe game day guys, you can keep these guys practicing all year. 

I didn't get it right away...but Siri mentioned the 69 man roster??   Which only makes sense if they look at the guys on the PS as guys they want to use.

Think about it....why did they make the moves today? There must be a rule where you can start over and allow a PS guy to play more than 3 games if they go on and off the roster?

There needs to be these loopholes that they figured out just like they have with the salary cap.  We just probably need to see it happen this year first to understand it 

Guys can practice on their own. Plenty of avenues guys turn to for doing this. Frankly these days it’s been stated by coaches that after TC all that stuff is mostly done with. Game weeks are matchup related game plan prep focused these days.

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Always could work the way you have described here. Probably the most usual occurrence. But also have options. Depend on assessment of the injured players time expected out and his role importance to the team. A Lane level player you are much more willing to suck up a lost roster spot for him with any hopes he can return before the required four games placed on IR. If he could have a possibility of only missing three games even. Much less valuable players if they will miss one week you maybe need to IR them.

  But a significant enough player is considered to miss enough time….might make a bigger move to bring in somebody more worthy of the roster spot over just calling up a PS option. Basically more likely to just band aid a shorter term injury situation with covering by PS guy minimally for a game..maybe two. Longer term replacement expected to be needed then…more likely to go outside. Bring in the older vet on the street just waiting for bigger money. Possibly look to make a trade move to remedy the situation.

Right I'm pointing out why it's working the opposite of using PS for game day...allowing to protect developing players on the back end of the 53...because it's really working like a 69 man roster now. 

Not a bunch of developing guys and teaching occurring on field during game weeks anymore. The suit up field practice during game weeks is almost just walk throughs for plays being focused for the weeks matchup. Maybe an example of expecting to see advantage with a certain play being highlighted to be utilized more than once against the upcoming opponent. But at this level need counters from every look planning to show. So one play being walked through has four different versions that that play becomes based on the opponent factors. You know like an O playcall is a run to a certain gap. But adjusts to the next gap if the D stacks or overplays in a certain manner. Probably has adjustments where if it’s read the D playcall is overloading the box …it even switches to becoming a pass play. Blocking and routes adapting to take advantage of hitting them where they aren’t.

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

But rostering a guy like they did Sermon last season is dumb. Should have just put him on the PS after he fulfilled his mandatory 53 roster spot designation demanded when claiming him off waivers. Waiver order I believe was like 20 we had to get him with. So most of the league had already passed and not claimed him anyway. Plus the Niners that released him in the first place(believe they were after us in the waiver order). Only left a few teams to even consider worrying about poaching him under all those circumstances. But if they were so gung ho to protect him still..or felt strongly that one of the handful of teams behind in the waiver order really were after him…they should have placed him on IR. Obvious. No idea why he wasn’t out on IR.

Right..  rostering a Sermon is different than rostering a Ringo or Ojomo.    Sermon was rostered as the guy who would have had to play in the event of a RB injury last year... Ringo and Ojomo you keep for long term.   Because now you can use the PS for the emergency players if injury occurs.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Right I'm pointing out why it's working the opposite of using PS for game day...allowing to protect developing players on the back end of the 53...because it's really working like a 69 man roster now. 

Think I am getting your points. Good points I agree. But also other ways to work things. But redshirting a player on the 53 doesn’t really make sense. Have to roster him initially..but just place him on IR as soon as possible. 

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Not a bunch of developing guys and teaching occurring on field during game weeks anymore. The suit up field practice during game weeks is almost just walk throughs for plays being focused for the weeks matchup. Maybe an example of expecting to see advantage with a certain play being highlighted to be utilized more than once against the upcoming opponent. But at this level need counters from every look planning to show. So one play being walked through has four different versions that that play becomes based on the opponent factors. You know like an O playcall is a run to a certain gap. But adjusts to the next gap if the D stacks or overplays in a certain manner. Probably has adjustments where if it’s read the D playcall is overloading the box …it even switches to becoming a pass play. Blocking and routes adapting to take advantage of hitting them where they aren’t.

Yeah .. they still practice.   There is technique and stuff they do on the field...that a guy on IR couldn't do.

Personally I prefer Ringo and Ojomo working... maybe they even get in a game at some point.  Much better for developing players than never doing anything physically 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Right..  rostering a Sermon is different than rostering a Ringo or Ojomo.    Sermon was rostered as the guy who would have had to play in the event of a RB injury last year... Ringo and Ojomo you keep for long term.   Because now you can use the PS for the emergency players if injury occurs.

Ojomo I believe they do see getting snaps. Add to the rotation. Maybe seeing him bringing a role fitting certain packages favorably. Could see him Ojomo being a regular on a short yardage/goaline personnel package. Maybe ST. Ringo is behind all other CBs. So he isn’t suiting up on gamedays. Sermon wasn’t suiting up on gamedays either. One injury to a RB just meant turning to the other two already dressed. In the case of Sermon he only was going to dress because of a higher depth chart player being out over injury. So just bring him off IR. Practically the same as if he was on the 53 just not dressing really. Both options Sermon wasn’t being called right in to any game over top guys suffering any injury that game. Wasn’t suiting up that game. Only was an option the next game(s).

2 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Think I am getting your points. Good points I agree. But also other ways to work things. But redshirting a player on the 53 doesn’t really make sense. Have to roster him initially..but just place him on IR as soon as possible. 

It absolutely makes sense.  Get Sermon out of your head...it's keeping you from seeing the picture.  

You play 46 guys or whatever.    You got 7 more...plus another 16.    If you can play the 16 in the fringe spots...gunner, return,  punter until you really like one, whatever.... then it allows you to lock up the young guys from being poached. 

Other teams aren't going to poach those fringe guys, they would poach a potential developmental stud with unknown ceiling.

Ringo and Ojomo...not Covey or Allen.

But in the game...you need Covey or Allen to play. Manipulating it this way is excellent.   If you lose Covey and Allen..then Scott returns...or someone else.  

1 minute ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Ojomo I believe they do see getting snaps. Add to the rotation. Maybe seeing him bringing a role fitting certain packages favorably. Could see him Ojomo being a regular on a short yardage/goaline personnel package. Maybe ST. Ringo is behind all other CBs. So he isn’t suiting up on gamedays. Sermon wasn’t suiting up on gamedays either. One injury to a RB just meant turning to the other two already dressed. In the case of Sermon he only was going to dress because of a higher depth chart player being out over injury. So just bring him off IR. Practically the same as if he was on the 53 just not dressing really. Both options Sermon wasn’t being called right in to any game over top guys suffering any injury that game. Wasn’t suiting up that game. Only was an option the next game(s).

I see them needing Ojomo when they lose Cox and Barnett...and maybe Graham.  That's his value more than anything this year.   You can only dress so many DTs.   

Next year ...Davis, Carter, Williams,  Ojomo.... Sweat, Reddick,  Smith.    They need him ...can't put him on PS and lose the number for the future.

 

Redshirting a player on the 53... did not make sense   past tense.  Or as we grew to understand the previous rules.

I agree 100%

I'm trying to point out that they now have had time to study and manipulate the new rules.   To where we don't understand yet.

It's OK for us to not get it yet.  But too many weird things happening not just with the Eagles.... that I think we are missing things.   The loopholes etc.  

My guess is by the offseason one or more of the insiders will write something explaining some of these nuances after they see how they have been used.

Seeing it work is better than just having a theory. 

5 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Yeah .. they still practice.   There is technique and stuff they do on the field...that a guy on IR couldn't do.

Personally I prefer Ringo and Ojomo working... maybe they even get in a game at some point.  Much better for developing players than never doing anything physically 

Siri cut things back to almost only walk throughs on field practicing during the season. Coaches have been quoted reflecting…actually where my thinking and understanding about this comes from even. They say teaching and development is at OTAs and TC. That mostly ends come regular season. Then game weeks are so specifically organized day by day in preparation for that matchup. I envision it occurring like: the identified matchup determined plays are highlighted or separated and sent to all players to begin the week. Then they hit the classroom and discuss things surrounding the expected heaviest usage game plan plays picked out against that weeks matchup. Show previous film showing the opponent executing what’s expected to be faced. Teach the ways each play adapts to handle each identified specific plays being faced. You know guys jobs under the same play being called change based on personnel package and formations. Honestly gets very specific based on individual personnel having to deal with. Facing a team you still are doing extra adapting to whichever position is being manned by an elite guy. Like the D facing KC…most all plays called are adapted to still double up on Kelce. Stuff like that. But then next day they hit the field and walk through things. That way coaches actually show physically it all playing out. Make sure everybody learned their job in the classroom and on film. Correct any mistakes that show actually walking it through. That’s about it from here on going forward. Not much of any traditional practicing anymore. Practically done and over now. Would think only happens a few select times during the season. Like when coming off a loss having struggled in a specific area for a few games. Then forced to get things corrected and worked out.

9 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

Siri cut things back to almost only walk throughs on field practicing during the season. Coaches have been quoted reflecting…actually where my thinking and understanding about this comes from even. They say teaching and development is at OTAs and TC. That mostly ends come regular season. Then game weeks are so specifically organized day by day in preparation for that matchup. I envision it occurring like: the identified matchup determined plays are highlighted or separated and sent to all players to begin the week. Then they hit the classroom and discuss things surrounding the expected heaviest usage game plan plays picked out against that weeks matchup. Show previous film showing the opponent executing what’s expected to be faced. Teach the ways each play adapts to handle each identified specific plays being faced. You know guys jobs under the same play being called change based on personnel package and formations. Honestly gets very specific based on individual personnel having to deal with. Facing a team you still are doing extra adapting to whichever position is being manned by an elite guy. Like the D facing KC…most all plays called are adapted to still double up on Kelce. Stuff like that. But then next day they hit the field and walk through things. That way coaches actually show physically it all playing out. Make sure everybody learned their job in the classroom and on film. Correct any mistakes that show actually walking it through. That’s about it from here on going forward. Not much of any traditional practicing anymore. Practically done and over now. Would think only happens a few select times during the season. Like when coming off a loss having struggled in a specific area for a few games. Then forced to get things corrected and worked out.

So you don't think that between now and the end of the season...that Ringo will get about a 1000 reps covering WRs.   You don't think they go through individual drills and some reps...over and over again?

What you are talking about is old school full run the plays at full 11 on 11 speed.  I'm talking about the work. 

Hit the sled...cover one on one routes etc.

How do you think they decide during the year how these PS guys are doing...how do they gage.  They need to do some physical work. Do you think it's just 90 minutes of 3 walk throughs and that's it?

They still work on movement to keep the guys active and fluid.  Especially the young guys.  They need to get in that work. 

Juggs machine... etc.  You go on IR you can't do any of that stuff.  

Ike Reese always talks about that staying after practice and working on moves etc with Tra Thomas.  

Much more to the NFL work week than just the full speed full team practice. 

24 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

It absolutely makes sense.  Get Sermon out of your head...it's keeping you from seeing the picture.  

You play 46 guys or whatever.    You got 7 more...plus another 16.    If you can play the 16 in the fringe spots...gunner, return,  punter until you really like one, whatever.... then it allows you to lock up the young guys from being poached. 

Other teams aren't going to poach those fringe guys, they would poach a potential developmental stud with unknown ceiling.

Ringo and Ojomo...not Covey or Allen.

But in the game...you need Covey or Allen to play. Manipulating it this way is excellent.   If you lose Covey and Allen..then Scott returns...or someone else.  

I agree with using a guy not going to be poached off the PS. Think you can only call them up like three times though…before they have to be rostered. Ringo and Ojomo I am reading as opposites on the 53 though. Ojomo is injured maybe won’t be forced to rush back week one or two. But they will dress on gamedays fairly regularly. So you roster him without dressing on Gameday until he’s ready. Short term expectancy of missing a game or two. When he’s ready it’s likely a DT just gets released. Thinking Street only made the squad solely based on Ojomo injury. But Ringo isn’t part of the rotation. Not even the guy they’d turn to to replace a starter getting injured. Jobe and Goodrich are ahead of him. But drafted Ringo and developing him. He has that speed factor that can’t be taught. But he won’t ever dress on gamedays. So place him on IR. My Sermon use for examples is the clear situation straight from last season. So easy way to make that point using what occurred with him last season showing exactly the point. Could apply to any player situations that are equal to his was.

23 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

Redshirting a player on the 53... did not make sense   past tense.  Or as we grew to understand the previous rules.

I agree 100%

I'm trying to point out that they now have had time to study and manipulate the new rules.   To where we don't understand yet.

It's OK for us to not get it yet.  But too many weird things happening not just with the Eagles.... that I think we are missing things.   The loopholes etc.  

My guess is by the offseason one or more of the insiders will write something explaining some of these nuances after they see how they have been used.

Seeing it work is better than just having a theory. 

No doubt the PS rules changed. Makes a significant difference. So can agree to an extent on what you are saying there. But we’ve seen it in action some now. Have adapted to the change. Think you and I both have paid attention noticing it really is kind of a big deal.

10 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So you don't think that between now and the end of the season...that Ringo will get about a 1000 reps covering WRs.   You don't think they go through individual drills and some reps...over and over again?

What you are talking about is old school full run the plays at full 11 on 11 speed.  I'm talking about the work. 

Barely during the season now. So much more being taught in the classroom instead now. Really been mostly labeled walk throughs on the field anymore.

Need O and D personnel on the field to show how each play called adapts and the coach wants it handled. Like if a certain look is shown…then the player should hit the outside…or inside of the opponent …being expected from the coach. What the coach expects being what the whole team should be expecting to happen under those circumstances.

What the Z WR will do based on D playcall he’s facing and that outside Corner positioning and leverage.

15 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So you don't think that between now and the end of the season...that Ringo will get about a 1000 reps covering WRs.   You don't think they go through individual drills and some reps...over and over again?

What you are talking about is old school full run the plays at full 11 on 11 speed.  I'm talking about the work. 

I’m saying that stuff is done now. Would expect probably three or four real 11 on 11 practices to be done forward though. Only being forced to fix because it’s a major problem consistently occurring. Usually after a bad loss..or back to back losses.

6 minutes ago, cunninghamtheman said:

I agree with using a guy not going to be poached off the PS. Think you can only call them up like three times though…before they have to be rostered. Ringo and Ojomo I am reading as opposites on the 53 though. Ojomo is injured maybe won’t be forced to rush back week one or two. But they will dress on gamedays fairly regularly. So you roster him without dressing on Gameday until he’s ready. Short term expectancy of missing a game or two. When he’s ready it’s likely a DT just gets released. Thinking Street only made the squad solely based on Ojomo injury. But Ringo isn’t part of the rotation. Not even the guy they’d turn to to replace a starter getting injured. Jobe and Goodrich are ahead of him. But drafted Ringo and developing him. He has that speed factor that can’t be taught. But he won’t ever dress on gamedays. So place him on IR. My Sermon use for examples is the clear situation straight from last season. So easy way to make that point using what occurred with him last season showing exactly the point. Could apply to any player situations that are equal to his was.

Yeah...I don't see the need to put Ojomo or Ringo in the game this year. Barring injury.  

Sermon is in your head now ...so you are missing the idea.

But again ... I'm saying there may be a loophole around this 3 games thing or whatever.  

We don't have to be experts on this yet.  Let's see how they manipulate it first.

Plus... this buys time for the young guys to stay protected...before they may be needed. Let's hope that just like Sermon last year...that we don't need Ojomo or Ringo to play.  That's ideal