3 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Lmao this coming from the guy that never picks anyone. You just want BPA it such an easy thing to say though not to do.. Grading players is a massive grey area how do you judge a S vs a Lb you can’t really other aspects come into play 

BG.  Pay attention here.  The grading is the first part.  I'm talking about the final list.  Always needs to be in a vertical order ....a final one,  because you only pick one at a time.  A guy like Harris should not change anything.  I agree with you in principle... just not this specific instance with Harris, Idk if I can be any clearer? It's about Harris... as you say...LMAO.

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So 2 guys who have good chance of neither of them being here past this season will change your preference?   This to me is a bigger issue of the organization thinks this way.  

Yes it minor but yes they alter my preference slightly. 
it would be enough to give the slight edge to a LB that I value the same as that S. 

4 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Again it’s easy to just take your clear cut top guy when it’s just him but that rarely the case you have multiple guys on your boards rated closely or evenly even what are the deciding factors over going that S or that LB 

I think we are talking 2 different things. I don't care about the draft grading system.  Simply saying I hope Harris signing....specifically Harris signing.  . Harris.... Harris....  Harris..   one year deal at a stage where we are far from contending  ..  that it does not change anything.  The hypothetical you bring up,  I agree with all the other stuff, but not that the final decision should be impacted by Harris.   You follow? 

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

BG.  Pay attention here.  The grading is the first part.  I'm talking about the final list.  Always needs to be in a vertical order ....a final one,  because you only pick one at a time.  A guy like Harris should not change anything.  I agree with you in principle... just not this specific instance with Harris, Idk if I can be any clearer? It's about Harris... as you say...LMAO.

Again can’t make it clearer that LB and S graded the same who you putting higher on that final vertical list? 
Going to tell me that who we have at S now vs LB doesn’t slightly alter that opinion??? I call Bs 

Just now, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Again can’t make it clearer that LB and S graded the same who you putting higher on that final vertical list? 
Going to tell me that who we have at S now vs LB doesn’t slightly alter that opinion??? I call Bs 

See my last post.   We are talking 2 different things.  Agree with you in general.  But I sure hope Harris does not change anything.  I think it would be a mistake.   And Dawkins and Kendricks perfect example of 2 second round draft picks.    Even without that.  Please don't let Harris change anything. I just hope the LB is already the choice in your hypothetical. 

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

See my last post.   We are talking 2 different things.  Agree with you in general.  But I sure hope Harris does not change anything.  I think it would be a mistake.   And Dawkins and Kendricks perfect example of 2 second round draft picks.    Even without that.  Please don't let Harris change anything. I just hope the LB is already the choice in your hypothetical. 

Joe again think you missing it completely read last post. 
 

Simple question just answer your making your final list as you want to call it. You have two players S and LB graded equally who gets put higher??? 

Again 100% agree with you Harris should not alter us picking a S if he is hands down our best player. But to sit here and act like eh doesn’t also effect the decision board as well is also bogus 

4 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Again can’t make it clearer that LB and S graded the same who you putting higher on that final vertical list? 
Going to tell me that who we have at S now vs LB doesn’t slightly alter that opinion??? I call Bs 

Here is a hypothetical for you to.... for me... if a S and OG were " graded " the same... or whatever terminology you want to use.    If the current roster has impact on the choice.   I would go S, because I feel better long term with Seumalo and Herbig. 

For S and LB... I would already lean LB due to the kid we drafted from Clemson and the idea Maddox might translate to a deep safety.  Where at LB, I don't see anything long term.    Harris has no impact there... that is the way I see it.  My opinion if I made the decision.  I hope they look at it the same way.

3 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Again 100% agree with you Harris should not alter us picking a S if he is hands down our best player. But to sit here and act like eh doesn’t also effect the decision board as well is also bogus 

Ironically,  I was making my last post as you wrote yours.  Hope that helps explain my opinion.  I go LB for reasons stated....Harris no impact on that.

1 minute ago, joemas6 said:

Here is a hypothetical for you to.... for me... if a S and OG were " graded " the same... or whatever terminology you want to use.    If the current roster has impact on the choice.   I would go S, because I feel better long term with Seumalo and Herbig. 

For S and LB... I would already lean LB due to the kid we drafted from Clemson and the idea Maddox might translate to a deep safety.  Where at LB, I don't see anything long term.    Harris has no impact there... that is the way I see it.  My opinion if I made the decision.  I hope they look at it the same way.

I’d agree to go S but that is also the fact I have Brooks under contract I have Herbig who I’m high on and Semaulo. The impact the S can have would be greater and the players already on roster alter that.

LB your saying the same thing you might not want to act like Harris alters some but it does. The LB would be put higher because he would have a more instant impact now and future. 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

I will say...  I agree except where you say that drafting QB or OL early has not worked for the Eagles. 

McNabb,Wentz, Lane, Cox, ... those are the earliest pucks I can remember the last 20 years?   Two franchise QBs and two stud big time impact players on the lines.   

Now that might not translate to this year's draft.  But I won't go by history, more so in the moment,  as a reason not to go those routes.    I still think they want to trade back.  

Well, since Roseman became GM in 2010 -

Graham, Cox, Johnson has worked out.

Wentz was OK and he did help us get to the SB, but he is no longer here, so I cannot make a judgement either way as he did not play in the SB play-off run

Watkins and Marcus Smith stunk. Barnett and Dillard are still question Marks.

So it worked out for 3 of the 8 times HR drafted that way. 2 question marks as they have not yet panned out an Wentz who is no longer here after 5 years.

   You would think drafting a player in the first round would fair better than that, no? Of course we also blew it drafting other positions so I guess the real answer id to make sure someone else does the drafting......

4 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

I’d agree to go S but that is also the fact I have Brooks under contract I have Herbig who I’m high on and Semaulo. The impact the S can have would be greater and the players already on roster alter that.

LB your saying the same thing you might not want to act like Harris alters some but it does. The LB would be put higher because he would have a more instant impact now and future. 

Harris no impact for me. I can't say it enough.  Brooks no impact for me either.  Neither does Graham at DE. Any of these 3 spots, if I like the player as if none of these guys were on the roster,  I'm taking that player. Same with C.   

I mean, if you think I am BSing you then realize it's why I prefer not to go QB or WR at 6.  We already have young guys that " could " be the answer there.  It's different than 29 year old Harris on a one year deal...with the one year being 2021,a year I don't expect anything.   I'm pretty consistent in my ideas here.   Harris may effect what they do. I am saying it wouldn't if it were me. 

4 minutes ago, stine said:

Well, since Roseman became GM in 2010 -

Graham, Cox, Johnson has worked out.

Wentz was OK and he did help us get to the SB, but he is no longer here, so I cannot make a judgement either way as he did not play in the SB play-off run

Watkins and Marcus Smith stunk. Barnett and Dillard are still question Marks.

So it worked out for 3 of the 8 times HR drafted that way. 2 question marks as they have not yet panned out an Wentz who is no longer here after 5 years.

   You would think drafting a player in the first round would fair better than that, no? Of course we also blew it drafting other positions so I guess the real answer id to make sure someone else does the drafting......

These are later picks in the examples you are using. Not the 4 early ones.  And yes Wentz included,  no shot at SB without that move. The SB run started week 1. You have to get there first. 

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

I'm pretty consistent in my ideas here.   Harris may effect what they do. I am saying it wouldn't if it were me. 

I’m consistent in mine as well and I don’t think we are drastically disagree with each other. The concept of taking BPA I agree with and the difference for me in drafting guys similar grading is impact l(especially early picks) why guys like Harris,Brooks, Graham,Wallace whoever alters my view.

Round 2 guy S & LB I want the guy who can make the bigger impact right away that LB. as for in the future I’d hope that since they are graded equally we view them both as long term answers 

So we had Greg Jackson and Mike Zordich at S ...in 1994-95.   Dawkins was drafted in round 2 of 1996.   I sure hope that if Jackson was still an Eagle for 1996 that we still would have drafted Dawkins.   I absolutely think you look at your roster and it effects your draft pick... but I sure hope that the view is long term and not due to older guys being there.  Especially when you are a team that needs to rebuild.  If a Harris signing effects a pick that could be here for the next decade... I'm pretty scared for this organization.  

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

HUH? He was the Goldenboy. He got beat out by Suds? Hurts was no better,we lost Wentz because he wasn't worth the MONEY(something thats not an issue in college)

Hurts clearly provided a spark

58 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

For me BG.    When I am drafting,  it's not a grade or rating.   I have a list... pure vertical order... I  want this guy over that guy.   That decision to me is made already going into the draft. 

The only thing the horizontal rankings do for me is if look to trade up or down.   You can tier players for sure, but you have to have those players already in an order within that tier. 

Harris would not change that for me. A team offering me a trade back a couple spots and if I can or can't still get one of these, then it has an impact.  But I have to draft with the idea that I want this guy for 10 years.  There should be a pecking order there,even with guys in same tier.  That should not change with a Harris signing.

  Joe, I do not think it is that simple. They may have like 6-8 players ranked the same. So if they have a position of need for any of those, they would go on the top...... No team has a list 1,2,3,4,5....199,200 There are groups of players that are basically in the same bracket. Pro Bowl potential, Instant starter, Possible starter, ST and back up. Possible starter in 2 years.... Something like that. I really have no clue exactly how they do it, but I do not think they would number each player. At least not to start with. They may place a number within groups depending on need?

Just now, Bleedinggreen93 said:

I’m consistent in mine as well and I don’t think we are drastically disagree with each other. The concept of taking BPA I agree with and the difference for me in drafting guys similar grading is impact l(especially early picks) why guys like Harris,Brooks, Graham,Wallace whoever alters my view.

Round 2 guy S & LB I want the guy who can make the bigger impact right away that LB. as for in the future I’d hope that since they are graded equally we view them both as long term answers 

So ... did you like the Dillard pick knowing he wasn't going to start? Did having JP have an effect?  

Barnett wasn't going to start.  Goedert wasn't going to start...etc.   to me, the first year isn't the issue.  I can't make decisions like that, especially for a bad team.   

I just go back to this specific situation and player, doesn't need to go deeper than that. Harris should not change our draft plan.  I don't think he does anyway. 

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Well, if we hit the draft well, the transition may not be as bad as you make it out to be if we(now) have a staff that can develop the young guys. We have 11 picks, alot of late round WIP's/projects, but out of that group I would hope to at least nail a few solid BU's. I don't care what position it is. I would like to see us use some of those later round picks to move into round 4 where there are still possible starters around. We need those first 4 picks to be able to start,or to start SOON (say before mid season for the round 3 guys). My round 3 WR Wallace I believe can start right away

I agree with using those day three picks to secure our guys

Just now, stine said:

  Joe, I do not think it is that simple. They may have like 6-8 players ranked the same. So if they have a position of need for any of those, they would go on the top...... No team has a list 1,2,3,4,5....199,200 There are groups of players that are basically in the same bracket. Pro Bowl potential, Instant starter, Possible starter, ST and back up. Possible starter in 2 years.... Something like that. I really have no clue exactly how they do it, but I do not think they would number each player. At least not to start with. They may place a number within groups depending on need?

Round and round... again, this is specifically and ONLY about Harris.  Please don't let a 29 year old one year deal ...at this stage of the team,  effect a draft decision. 

16 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

IDK I am waiting around to see what kind of offense Siri wants. If you look at the Colts, RIvers has a totally different style than Brissett had. Wentz is more like Rivers. I want to avoid that changing it all because my BU has a completely different skill set. So we need to decide what the future is pocket passers or running QB's. That's the first thing I want to know .Obviously for now the gears  have shifted from a pocket passer to a running QB. Basically that''s all siri has to work with at the moment,and I want to find out if that's what his END result/goal is, or will he do the best he can while gearing back up for a pocket passer? OR can we take a "running QB" and make him a pocket passer? We will find out this year

Big time athletes...,making big time money pass rushing. Almost have to be mobile...other than the elite exception

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So ... did you like the Dillard pick knowing he wasn't going to start? Did having JP have an effect?  

Barnett wasn't going to start.  Goedert wasn't going to start...etc.   to me, the first year isn't the issue.  I can't make decisions like that, especially for a bad team.   

I just go back to this specific situation and player, doesn't need to go deeper than that. Harris should not change our draft plan.  I don't think he does anyway. 

Wasn’t big on Barnett or Goedart. Dillard was fine but again that comes down to BPA no as I stated no issues if it’s the highest rated player on our board. Your talking something completely different now 

10 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Correct and then when it's obvious that he isn't the guy.... there is somewhat of a team there for the next guy to work with.  In the meantime.... enjoy the running and some highlights.  

Enjoy the running for TDs and throwing over 300 yards. DC worst nightmare. He just needs to keep improving the fundamentals and accuracy.

10 hours ago, joemas6 said:

Why would a Wilson or Watson want to come here?    

I still think this a lost concept of how this is NOT a place to come and compete anytime soon?    It's the main reason the other guy wanted to leave.  We are no better than Seattle or Houston.... and the division is no longer pathetic.  I think these are concepts that are having trouble being understood.  

If our Oline is complete it makes Seachickens blocking look matador-ish

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

So ... did you like the Dillard pick knowing he wasn't going to start? Did having JP have an effect?  

Barnett wasn't going to start.  Goedert wasn't going to start...etc.   to me, the first year isn't the issue.  I can't make decisions like that, especially for a bad team.   

I just go back to this specific situation and player, doesn't need to go deeper than that. Harris should not change our draft plan.  I don't think he does anyway. 

   You pick Dillard if he was the highest ranked player within the highest group left open on your board. Who knows, he may have been the only one left..... IF there was an equally ranked player of a position of need then he would have been picked.... This is why no 2 teams have the same draft board. Even if two teams thought all players were the same value their boards would be different. Simply because those two teams have different positions of need.....