8 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

 If I had 3 guys ,a S, a CB and a WR at the same level,I put a line through S right now

Me too... because we have 2 potential young guys in Maddox and Wallace.   Same with WR with all the young guys.  I take the CB because I think we don't have anything there regarding a future,  except possibly the same 2 guys I mentioned at S, that could potentially be slot CBs.   

Any tiebreaker for me... DL, LB, CB get the nod.  C might be next.  We have young guys elsewhere that could be long term solutions.   I would also like to add a blocking TE and a RB at some point if possible. 

8 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Why do you assume we won't resign him??? If he likes it here, we sign him again, and although thats not a given, I have bought myself a year to find another S either in the next FA or the next draft or one of my developmental guys steps up. I will sign FA"s until I find a draftee that is good enough I dont need to

GB... we just disagree... it's  allowed.  Like I said.  I would like to think back in round 2 of 1996... that we drafted Dawkins and would have still drafted him over ... TE Johnny McWilliams,  RB Detron Smith, T Roman Oben, C Clay Shiver,  DT John Browning,  G Ken Blackman or DE Brady Smith.... the guys that were selected right after him at the different positions....  and that having Greg Jackson for one more year didn't change the outcome.  

I do not want to look back in 2025 and hear " we had this all pro player with a same 68.34 grade back in 2021, but we had just signed the 29 year old Harris to a one year deal, so we went with  this other guy who is no longer on the roster "    I can swallow that mistake better if were due to the potential Maddox and Wallace have at the position.  

7 hours ago, GreenbleedinNC said:

Gnats are in win now mode.they put a team together. I'm with 123, they are the division winners if they put all this together

Hello...  I've been saying this the whole time.   Going into this year the other teams are ahead, 2nd year in their systems,  relatively same draft ammo and the ability to plug in their specific holes in FA.   

As for NYG,  if you actually watched the 2nd half of the year, you see a QB that can make all the throws,  but didn't have the best protection or weapons.  The stud RB returning,  the #1 WR added and a OL that got a chance to gel a little by playing together. ( what I would prefer us to do with Herbig and Driscoll) 

I really think Dallas is behind the other two teams ar this point, even though on paper they have the " star players"  And I think Dallas should win 8 -9 games.  I don't see this pathetic NFC Least of the recent years.  It's why I dont want to make long term decisions based off of signings like Harris. 

10 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

That was a different day. Nowadays too many absolute freak athletes playing on the Dline. Not to mention LBs.

Agree... look at the mobility of the current SB champ's QB.  It's a different time,  long gone are the slow pass rushers like LT, Thomas and Smith.   Foles mobility was a huge key after the immobile Wentz got hurt, was key to winning the SB. 

1 hour ago, joemas6 said:

Agree... look at the mobility of the current SB champ's QB.  It's a different time,  long gone are the slow pass rushers like LT, Thomas and Smith.   Foles mobility was a huge key after the immobile Wentz got hurt, was key to winning the SB. 

So other than the exception elite(which I mentioned) of Tom Brady. Who are the top young QBs? Wilson, Watson , Allen, Mahomes.....noticing something these guys have in common? And yes, I stick by my comment that pass rushers are getting ridiculously athletic. Bosa and Young are absolute freaks. You can try and get a great Oline together .....but that still doesn’t cover blocking those type guys.

Pitts ran a 4.46. Those moronic mockers than ave him ranked below 6 better get with the dang program

2 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So other than the exception elite(which I mentioned) of Tom Brady. Who are the top young QBs? Wilson, Watson , Allen, Mahomes.....noticing something these guys have in common? And yes, I stick by my comment that pass rushers are getting ridiculously athletic. Bosa and Young are absolute freaks. You can try and get a great Oline together .....but that still doesn’t cover blocking those type guys.

UH how about QB's getting the ball out faster? I know that blows up your scenario but.....Must be rough on you that Sewell will be one of the first taken over your D line "freaks"

IDK Ham, for me there is a difference between a running QB and a "mobile" one

8 hours ago, joemas6 said:

What makes a guy a 68 ?  His bench press, his height/ weight.  Did you interview him?  Did he take a test and score a 68?    Is that 68 a snapshot of exactly now?  Do you look at potential down the road, if so, how does that effect the player's grade?   How was Mailata graded?  Was it from doing drills?  Did his height automatically bump him 5 points in the grade?   What if a guy was low in bodyweight, but was a little younger and played at a small school without the best training facility?    Does a younger player automatically get extra points because he could potentially play longer and have more room to grow, both things that do not show up as a tangible thing that can be graded?   

This is what I am saying,  at the end, the 68 or 69 or 67 or whatever # you use... too many variables that could change.  Too many things that are different at each position.   You have to look at how you think this player can develop and the reasons why you think that.   At the end,it should come down to " I prefer having this guy on my team over that guy"    in the building,on the practice field, in the hotels ... representing my team.    In 2021 draft,  for a 4 win team, I hope older dudes on a 1 year deal don't effect this decision... due to something like " if this guy bench pressed 1 more rep he goes from 68 to 69.  Or if this guy had one more interception or TD in college he would have been a point higher.   Or if this guy was 6 months younger,  he would get an extra point.   Or if his shuttle time was 2 tenths of a second faster etc.  If that little stuff is the difference between a tenth of a point # grade and the reason a player is exactly the same grade as one in which we have an old dude on a one year deal... and that breaks the tie.  Idk if that leads to a successful system of selecting players.

I took BG's post differently than you did. He said what if the team graded these 3 players all with a 68. He also said he was not sure what their system was. So I don't understand why you are asking how they got a 68. The point was these 3 players graded out the same with whatever system they used.....

3 hours ago, cunninghamtheman said:

So other than the exception elite(which I mentioned) of Tom Brady. Who are the top young QBs? Wilson, Watson , Allen, Mahomes.....noticing something these guys have in common? And yes, I stick by my comment that pass rushers are getting ridiculously athletic. Bosa and Young are absolute freaks. You can try and get a great Oline together .....but that still doesn’t cover blocking those type guys.

They are your top fantasy QB.   But those guys are QBs that can run... difference between them and guys like Hurts, Murray, Tua, Lamar...etc.  

The thing that it comes down to is that it's always a team game,  the blocking needs to be there as well as the guys catching the ball. 

Going overboard on the mobility aspect is ideal for anyone trying to justify Hurts as an NFL QB.  Without that part , he was pretty much useless.   

But it's interesting.  Getting excited about an offense with a short passing game that gets the ball out of the QB'S hands real quickly.  Seems pretty much a waste of having a mobile QB?   Also it should be obvious it puts pressure on the WRs to get open quickly, something that can be hard to do vs press coverage.   Idk why this idea of where that could be the proper fit with our current players?  

8 hours ago, joemas6 said:

What makes a guy a 68 ?  His bench press, his height/ weight.  Did you interview him?  Did he take a test and score a 68?    Is that 68 a snapshot of exactly now?  Do you look at potential down the road, if so, how does that effect the player's grade?   How was Mailata graded?  Was it from doing drills?  Did his height automatically bump him 5 points in the grade?   What if a guy was low in bodyweight, but was a little younger and played at a small school without the best training facility?    Does a younger player automatically get extra points because he could potentially play longer and have more room to grow, both things that do not show up as a tangible thing that can be graded?   

This is what I am saying,  at the end, the 68 or 69 or 67 or whatever # you use... too many variables that could change.  Too many things that are different at each position.   You have to look at how you think this player can develop and the reasons why you think that.   At the end,it should come down to " I prefer having this guy on my team over that guy"    in the building,on the practice field, in the hotels ... representing my team.    In 2021 draft,  for a 4 win team, I hope older dudes on a 1 year deal don't effect this decision... due to something like " if this guy bench pressed 1 more rep he goes from 68 to 69.  Or if this guy had one more interception or TD in college he would have been a point higher.   Or if this guy was 6 months younger,  he would get an extra point.   Or if his shuttle time was 2 tenths of a second faster etc.  If that little stuff is the difference between a tenth of a point # grade and the reason a player is exactly the same grade as one in which we have an old dude on a one year deal... and that breaks the tie.  Idk if that leads to a successful system of selecting players.

Joe I know you hate to be wrong but the point was simple 3 guys same grade how do you rank them on the final list. I don’t know how they got the grades doesn’t matter they graded the same. The roster effects how you place them. I know you hate to be wrong but you are it’s fine accept it 

16 minutes ago, stine said:

I took BG's post differently than you did. He said what if the team graded these 3 players all with a 68. He also said he was not sure what their system was. So I don't understand why you are asking how they got a 68. The point was these 3 players graded out the same with whatever system they used.....

Yes stine you are correct this was the point Joe just can’t be wrong so he has to try and prove me wrong lmao 

Was listening to the local radio this morning. They brought up Swartz. They said that they felt he did not adjust to the player's strengths, but rather had them adjust to his system. Slay said that it was hard to make interceptions with your back to the QB all the time. Although I feel Swartz was not terrible, I feel there is some merit to this. Jonathan Gannon was sought after by 3 or more teams. That is encouraging even though I know little about him. I was told he likes to get after the QB and plays more press coverage and tends to work with players strengths in his schemes. Hopefully he is a good DC because Siri probably has little knowledge of the defensive side of the game.

 

1 minute ago, stine said:

Was listening to the local radio this morning. They brought up Swartz. They said that they felt he did not adjust to the player's strengths, but rather had them adjust to his system. Slay said that it was hard to make interceptions with your back to the QB all the time. Although I feel Swartz was not terrible, I feel there is some merit to this. Jonathan Gannon was sought after by 3 or more teams. That is encouraging even though I know little about him. I was told he likes to get after the QB and plays more press coverage and tends to work with players strengths in his schemes. Hopefully he is a good DC because Siri probably has little knowledge of the defensive side of the game.

 

Said for couple years now Schwartz scheme did not aid the secondary made guys look worse then they really were. He liked lot of man coverage and left guys on islands lot of the time so any minor mistake could go for a big play since there was no help for the DB.

Makes it even worse when you play top WRs 

2 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Joe I know you hate to be wrong but the point was simple 3 guys same grade how do you rank them on the final list. I don’t know how they got the grades doesn’t matter they graded the same. The roster effects how you place them. I know you hate to be wrong but you are it’s fine accept it 

I'm not wrong or disagreeing with anything point you ate making.  

Why does it have to be any more than... one specific player in one specific year.  I agree that I would put safety lower on my list...nothing to do with Harris.  If we make any decisions based on a move like Harris, I don't like it.   Specifically and ONLY Harris....nothing to do with draft grading or anything else.  

 

4 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Yes stine you are correct this was the point Joe just can’t be wrong so he has to try and prove me wrong lmao 

LMAO.   Harris = Superbowl...safety for the next decade.    Change your draft board, due to this once in a lifetime free agent signing. That is a LMAO

Just now, joemas6 said:

I'm not wrong or disagreeing with anything point you ate making.  

Why does it have to be any more than... one specific player in one specific year.  I agree that I would put safety lower on my list...nothing to do with Harris.  If we make any decisions based on a move like Harris, I don't like it.   Specifically and ONLY Harris....nothing to do with draft grading or anything else.  

 

Lmao Joe it’s this year only can focus on this year right now. Graded the same you take the player that can help you now. Future aspect should be the same. 
 

Harris EFFECTS THAT MCLOED EFFECTS THAT BROOKS EFFECTS THAT guy that we have rig he now effect things what are you not getting???

Yes if you have the superior talent player at S(just the example we are using can be any position) you take them but grades equal you take the position that you need(in simplistic terms) it isn’t hard 

S=LB=G who do you take??? The LB why BECAUSE OF THE GUYS AT THE OTHER POSITION!!!!!! Harris is part of that equation in turn he has an effect 

3 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

LMAO.   Harris = Superbowl...safety for the next decade.    Change your draft board, due to this once in a lifetime free agent signing. That is a LMAO

Lmao again your draft board isn’t set grades equal you taking the S over the Lb???? No your taking the Lb you can say oh Wallace and Maddox and blah blah blah all you want but it’s because of who we have at S vs LB why the Lb goes higher on turn Harris effects it same with the rest of the guys. 

2 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

Lmao Joe it’s this year only can focus on this year right now. Graded the same you take the player that can help you now. Future aspect should be the same. 
 

Harris EFFECTS THAT MCLOED EFFECTS THAT BROOKS EFFECTS THAT guy that we have rig he now effect things what are you not getting???

Yes if you have the superior talent player at S(just the example we are using can be any position) you take them but grades equal you take the position that you need(in simplistic terms) it isn’t hard 

What is the player going to help you now?  What is that going to do in the long run.   Dawkins was a good draft pick because of 1996?  Or the entire career.  Like I said, according to your logic, he wouldn't be the pick if Greg Jackson was under contract one more season.  That is just my point.  

I stated there is no safety at pick 6.  I stated I am not concerned about safety compared to other positions.  So I'm there with you.  But if there is a 5th round decision between guys who ate probably not going to start... I hope that signing Harris isn't a factor in the decision.  

It's just my opinion, I hope it's not a factor. 

6 minutes ago, Bleedinggreen93 said:

S=LB=G who do you take??? The LB why BECAUSE OF THE GUYS AT THE OTHER POSITION!!!!!! Harris is part of that equation in turn he has an effect 

Yes... LB I  feel we have zero long term guys barring the guy we drafted with the Foles comp pick last year. 

G and S we have some young guys that may work at each spot.  

2 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

But if there is a 5th round decision between guys who ate probably not going to start... I hope that signing Harris isn't a factor in the decision.  

It's just my opinion, I hope it's not a factor. 

Lmao JOE!!!!!!! stop over thinking it damn it is that simple as I’ve stated numerous times. Harris McLeod the rest of the guys on roster at every position effect the draft.

If you think player A is better then you draft him if you think player B is better you draft him. If they are equal you take the player that is likely to help you the most or who will likely have the bigger impact down the road the roster can sway that

Honestly,regarding this disagreement. There are many reasons to get a FA. 1) He is an improvement over what you have-short term(right now) or long term(hopefully long term if he is young enough) 2) You can't draft or develop players you DO draft worth a damn(you are HERE!!!!! 💢) 3)You replaced someone who cost you too much money(or wasn't WORTH the money) 4)You found a developmental talent that SHOULD be capable of replacing an aging player down the road(which hopefully goes with #2) IMO one or more of these options WOULD affect my draft, others may NOT

You keep acting like I’m saying they effect the grades no the grades are the grades they are set the roster should have ZERO effect on them.

The way you list them though the roster effects on your final vertical list.

Oh I have 3 guys at different positions with the same grade how do I rank them then???? The roster going to sway the decision simple 

7 minutes ago, joemas6 said:

What is the player going to help you now?  What is that going to do in the long run.   Dawkins was a good draft pick because of 1996?  Or the entire career.  Like I said, according to your logic, he wouldn't be the pick if Greg Jackson was under contract one more season.  That is just my point.  

I stated there is no safety at pick 6.  I stated I am not concerned about safety compared to other positions.  So I'm there with you.  But if there is a 5th round decision between guys who ate probably not going to start... I hope that signing Harris isn't a factor in the decision.  

It's just my opinion, I hope it's not a factor. 

Why bring up Dawkins Joe, Did anyone honestly think he would become the player he was? Of BG's example, ALL 3 were graded to have the same effect down the road. so the only issue if they would help now or later is who you have on the current roster. If you have no one, that drafted player would have an immediate impact assuming they all were graded equally.