16 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

People pay to go watch practices.  

If Sirianis joint practices are competitive as he claims then yeah I could see that,

I wouldn't pay a dime to watch what was on the field last night, just trash.

Just shows how untouchable the NFL is that people will actually pay to watch that.

6 minutes ago, Utebird said:

If Sirianis joint practices are competitive as he claims then yeah I could see that,

I wouldn't pay a dime to watch what was on the field last night, just trash.

Just shows how untouchable the NFL is that people will actually pay to watch that.

Trouble is that people pay before they realize what trash it is.

3 run bomb puts Oregon on top in the bottom of the 3rd inning. 

 

fudge

10 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

I’m not arguing anything. I said IIRC and then looked up what he said and posted the tweet

It wasn’t a gotcha moment but I guess yours was. Oh well

We now know Howie has control of 53 and Nick may or may not have control of the game day

What GM doesn't have say over the 53 (except with Carroll and Belichick).

The GM has to deal with the cap, waiver wire, PS claims, etc. The HC doesn't want that on his plate in most cases.

In reality, moves are either going to be end of roster moves (PS or waiver wire claims) or injury replacements.

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

So who to believe.  afan and his band of apologists that it doesn't matter, or one of the team leaders, gosh, that is a hard one.

Both. (Well, apologist is a poor understanding of realists).  This is a team leader doing what you would expect a team leader to do, especially because a big part of the poor performance was by the back up OL. 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What GM doesn't have say over the 53 (except with Carroll and Belichick).

The GM has to deal with the cap, waiver wire, PS claims, etc. The HC doesn't want that on his plate in most cases.

In reality, moves are either going to be end of roster moves (PS or waiver wire claims) or injury replacements.

The GM in Tampa 

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What GM doesn't have say over the 53 (except with Carroll and Belichick).

The GM has to deal with the cap, waiver wire, PS claims, etc. The HC doesn't want that on his plate in most cases.

In reality, moves are either going to be end of roster moves (PS or waiver wire claims) or injury replacements.

I didn’t respond to your earlier reply because I don’t care about the topic. I didn’t know and so I looked it up and found the answer

You'll have to defend Howie with someone else because I don’t care to argue about it

Just now, BigEFly said:

Both. (Well, apologist is a poor understanding of realists).  This is a team leader doing what you would expect a team leader to do, especially because a big part of the poor performance was by the back up OL. 

Which is disappointing, but not surprising.

The general consensus to me at least has been that the OL and the back ups are relatively pretty good and the eagles have good I line depth 

Last night would suggest otherwise as they all played pretty poorly.

One could chalk it up to not having familiarity playing next to each other, or being thrown in against the Pats ones or maybe they just suck and as good as Stoutland is he cant make gold out of poop.

2 hours ago, Utebird said:

Love Lane.

Love his remarks about competitive pride which has been a message from Nick since day one 

I haven't been one to make fun of the Rick paper scissors in the past 

But it seems odd to me that a coaching staff that has been preaching competition all summer would show up and be so uncompetitive in a pre season game 

My only explanation would be that the coaches didn't see the pre season game as a competitive exercise and instead used it purely as an evaluative tool.

The alternative would be that they either just suck or don't care?

 

 

 

Bingo.  At this stage of rebuilding, he better damn well see it more as an evaluative tool.  

Somebody better tell Lane it’s only preseason , not showing anything on offense 

It’s terrible,” Johnson said. "Anytime you don’t put up anything, I don’t care what you’re doing. If you’re in the nature of competing and being in competition, that’s unacceptable. I don’t care if it’s preseason or whatnot, there’s still a standard to play at at this level and represent yourself and to represent this team.”

 

 

46 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Nice try. Avoid the fact that Kelly didn’t want to work with Howie and banished him to the other side of the building. 

I’m confused how that in any way helps your point?

The team got worse when Chip gained control. Chip was then fired and Howie went on to win a Super Bowl shortly after. 

1 minute ago, Original Sin said:

Somebody better tell Lane it’s only preseason , not showing anything on offense 

It’s terrible,” Johnson said. "Anytime you don’t put up anything, I don’t care what you’re doing. If you’re in the nature of competing and being in competition, that’s unacceptable. I don’t care if it’s preseason or whatnot, there’s still a standard to play at at this level and represent yourself and to represent this team.”

 

 

He’s 100 right and to think less is being a loser

Well, look at the backups.

First, Dillard and Dickerson didn't play, that's your #6 and #7.

Driscoll was playing OG, he's still learning the position.

Toth was a UDFA out of Army, he's a developmental project.

Opeta is a 2nd year UDFA, he's got power but is learning footwork

Herbig is learning to play center.

Pryor is the most experienced, which is all that's keeping him around.

They already cut Juriga, their patience is not infinite.

4 hours ago, austinfan said:

There is no "MO" for preseason game 2, since there's never been a preseason with only 3 games the last few decades.

Sure they're afraid of injuries, all HCs are, Jets just lost two starters in practice. It's a balance, and no one knows what the right balance is, all HCs play it by ear.

There's no "right way" to run preseason, I've yet to see a study that shows one approach is superior to another.

We don't know how Sirianni is going to approach this week, or the two weeks between the last exhibition game and the first game of the season. And we don't know how the team is going to respond - but I can remember seasons with intense training camps and slow starts, so that's no guaranteed solution either.

When Reid took over in 1999, he ran probably the most intense TC the Eagles have ever had, trying to whip a losing team into shape:

First four games:

Arizona (6-10) L 24-25

TB (11-5) L 5-19

@ Buffalo (11-5) L 0-26

@ NYG (7-9) L 15-16

 

Brian Finneran dropped a completion that would’ve won first game (turned into an INT). 
That and having crappy players didn’t help. 

Bad teams that look good in preseason tend to be either better than advertised, or have a FO that's pushing to win games to sell tickets.

Because if you play your starters a lot in preseason (and your second unit the rest of the game) you're not going to have a lot of snaps to evaluate the back of the roster.

5 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Somebody better tell Lane it’s only preseason , not showing anything on offense 

It’s terrible,” Johnson said. "Anytime you don’t put up anything, I don’t care what you’re doing. If you’re in the nature of competing and being in competition, that’s unacceptable. I don’t care if it’s preseason or whatnot, there’s still a standard to play at at this level and represent yourself and to represent this team.”

 

 

Would mean more if he actually played.

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

What GM doesn't have say over the 53 (except with Carroll and Belichick).

The GM has to deal with the cap, waiver wire, PS claims, etc. The HC doesn't want that on his plate in most cases.

In reality, moves are either going to be end of roster moves (PS or waiver wire claims) or injury replacements.

Looking at this article, the Bills GM Beane has final say over the 53 man roster, but it appears he defers to McDermott.

https://www.nfl.com/news/brandon-beane-will-control-bills-53-man-roster-0ap3000000808367

New Bills general manager Brandon Beane

doesn't seem to imagine a scenario where he'd need to use it, but he does have final say over the team's 53-man roster.

Sean Payton has final say in New Orleans.

https://www.nola.com/sports/saints/article_d20b4e13-4feb-578b-9622-587e03957ab4.html

n New Orleans, Sean Payton has final say over all personnel matters.

Chip Kelly had final say his first year with the Eagles, Adam Gase with the Dolphins, Dan Quinn with the Falcons.

Shanahan has final say with the 49ers.

20 minutes ago, NCTANK said:

3 run bomb puts Oregon on top in the bottom of the 3rd inning. 

 

fudge

Penn LL scores another run, 3-2 Oregon heading to the bottom of the 4th

10 minutes ago, Utebird said:

The general consensus to me at least has been that the OL and the back ups are relatively pretty good and the eagles have good I line depth 

Last night would suggest otherwise as they all played pretty poorly.

Depth is likely good if one guy at a time needs to go in and you've still for 4 of Kelce, Seumalo, Brooks, Lane and Mailata around them.  Once you start subbing two guys at a time it often gets ugly.

A patchwork of 5 backups like last night will generally produce the results seen last night.

I want to make a point about last night's game, if "game" is what it deserves to be called. But before I do, I want to harken back to the 1976 season. Work with me on this for a minute. I hope it will all come together at the end.

Going in that season, the Pittsburgh Steelers were defending Super Bowl champions, winners of two in a row. Their biggest rival at the time was the Oakland Raiders, the team they had beaten in the AFC Championship two years in a row. The '76 season opener pitted those two teams against each other, and the Raiders came from behind in the closing minute in dramatic fashion to win. So the Steelers got off to an 0-1 start. Inexplicably the Steelers wound up losing several more games at the start of the season, and were, if I remember correctly 1-4 at one point. Meanwhile the Raiders were well on their way to a great season, as they finished 13-1 and cruised to their first Super Bowl.

If one looks back with an objective eye, it could be argued that the '76 Steelers defense was their greatest ever. It would rank up there with the '85 Bears or the '91 Eagles. That Steelers defense was loaded with Hall of Famers in the prime of their careers. They were great for many, many years, but that '76 version was their best. Over the next nine games after their dismal start, they only allowed 28 points, had five shutouts and two games where they only allowed a field goal, and crushed everyone they played. Late in the year they beat the Bengals 7-3 in Cincinnati in a very tough game. Keep in mind that the Bengals at that time were pretty darn good. Paul Brown was the coach. He was a legend. They had Kenny Anderson, a legit star quarterback. So going into the final two weeks of the season, the Bengals were a game up on the Steelers for the division crown. There wasn't going to be a wild card from that division because the AFC East had two 11-3 teams, so it was a winner-take-all battle. In the next-to-last week, the Bengals had to go to Oakland to play the Raiders on Monday Night. The Raiders had absolutely nothing to play for, and there was some whispers that the Raiders would simply lay down and let the Bengals win so as to keep the Steelers, the objectively better team as well as their arch-rival, out of the playoffs.

You have to remember that this sort of thing would have been considered outrageous. Just the notion that a team would not give it their 100% all in any given game was scandalous. Well, the Raiders did what they had to do, and won fairly convincingly, knocking the Bengals from first place and allowing the Steelers to make the playoffs. A few weeks later, the two teams met in the AFC Championship Game for the third year in a row, and this time the Raiders stomped the Steelers. This happened to be the game where the Steelers were injured badly going in. Franco Harris couldn't play, and I believe they were missing several of their other stars as well. But that's not the point. The point is that the Raiders went all out -- didn't "rest" any players -- in a late season game that didn't matter to them.

Okay, let's move to the 2004 season. The Eagles are 13-1 and have everything clinched. Terrell Owens has just broken his ankle. They're playing the Rams on a Monday Night game. Andy Reid decides to rest all of his key players, and the game is a one-sided affair with the Eagles on bad side of things. Everyone goes nuts. John Madden, the coach of the Raiders in '76, is broadcasting the game and is particularly incensed that the Eagles would just lay down, even though the game didn't matter. Fans around here went insane. I remember taking a phone call from a close friend of mine the next day and he was practically in tears. Okay, maybe a slight exaggeration, but suffice to say that he was enraged. "Oh My God, how can you not go all out in a regular season game"?

This was sort of the first time something like this had happened. A team "resting" their key players late in the year. Andy Reid was sort of an innovator in this respect. Well, as it turns out this has become a trend. Teams will often rest their key players when it doesn't matter. It's so commonplace nowadays that no one even gives it a second thought.

Yet at that moment in time (next to last game of the season in '04), the uproar was deafening. Everyone was complaining. So this is the point I want to make. This is what I'm reminded of regarding last night's game. It's the uproar about something that really doesn't matter one damn bit. The Eagles "rested" their key players. Big damn deal. And like what happened after '04, I suspect this is going to start a trend. It will become much more common over the next few years for other teams to do the same thing. Okay, fine, the Patriots didn't do the same thing last night. That was their prerogative. But I bet in a few years, it will become much more prevalent. And all the screaming and crying by fans today will be laughed at by people in the future as one massive overreaction.

Because that's what it is. An absolute overreaction.

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

Yes, they want to convert but not at the risk of showing their staple third down plays. 

Eagles staple plays on 3rd down:

1. Scramble for 7 yards on 3rd and 8

2. Check down to RB gaining 12 yards on 3rd and 15

3. Int Punt

4. Sack

5. Sack Fumble

6. Incomplete drop by a receiver. 

GMs should have control of the 53.
HCs should have control of gameday roster.

It's fine.

3-14

8 minutes ago, RLC said:

GMs should have control of the 53.
HCs should have control of gameday roster.

It's fine.

The more I search, the more I am finding that is not the case.

The new Detriot GM was pressed on it, and never once said he has final say, and it is a collaboration between himself and Dan Campbell.

Payton I forget, guys who've won on a regular basis can demand their say, though usually it's collaborative - when the HC and GM are constantly fighting over the roster, one will be gone in short order.

I wouldn't give Gase final authority, he had one winning season in five years.