1 hour ago, jwill2420 said:

I feel for the guy. He looked like he was finally becoming a player

I feel for the guy but what exactly did you see that convinced you that after three years as a journeyman that he had developed into a player?  

22 minutes ago, Casey @ Bat said:

Would mean more if he actually played.

Correct.  He may be right but hes the wrong one to say it.  Should come from someone who actually played. 

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Payton I forget, guys who've won on a regular basis can demand their say, though usually it's collaborative - when the HC and GM are constantly fighting over the roster, one will be gone in short order.

I wouldn't give Gase final authority, he had one winning season in five years.

A week after being hired, Mayock said Gruden has final say on the 53 man roster.  You want to concede this one, or shall I keep digging ??

Matt Rhule has final say in Carolina.

https://www.panthers.com/news/matt-rhule-has-final-say-looking-to-build-relationship-with-gm

Pete Carroll in Seattle

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Correct.  He may be right but hes the wrong one to say it.  Should come from someone who actually played. 

Alex Singleton played lights out. He earned the right to say it.

I'd point out that when HCs play starters in meaningless games and they get hurt, the criticism flies nonstop.

It's a balance, you can't obsess over injuries, b/c they happen, but you don't have to be foolish either.

With young starters and top reserves, additional snaps may outweigh the risk, with veteran starters, other than a couple dozen snaps to get game day feel in one game, how many snaps does Lane Johnson need to recognize what the defense is going to do?

Just now, austinfan said:

I'd point out that when HCs play starters in meaningless games and they get hurt, the criticism flies nonstop.

It's a balance, you can't obsess over injuries, b/c they happen, but you don't have to be foolish either.

With young starters and top reserves, additional snaps may outweigh the risk, with veteran starters, other than a couple dozen snaps to get game day feel in one game, how many snaps does Lane Johnson need to recognize what the defense is going to do?

No, but Lane might benefit from seeing what Herbig, or any other potential OL replacement, does in game situations.

23 minutes ago, NCTANK said:

Penn LL scores another run, 3-2 Oregon heading to the bottom of the 4th

Oregon up 8-2 after 4. lots of work to do for the boys in blue.

14 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

I feel for the guy but what exactly did you see that convinced you that after three years as a journeyman that he had developed into a player?  

I didn’t say a good one. Just a guy who could be a nice 3rd TE. 

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

A week after being hired, Mayock said Gruden has final say on the 53 man roster.  You want to concede this one, or shall I keep digging ??

Matt Rhule has final say in Carolina.

https://www.panthers.com/news/matt-rhule-has-final-say-looking-to-build-relationship-with-gm

I wouldn't take all those statements at face value either, because it's often for public consumption. For one thing, HCs simply aren't in touch with all the nuances of the cap and CBA and NFL rules to make these decisions. At best, the GM presents options, and the HC signs off. You can say the HC has the final say, but if he's not hands on with personnel he's basically relying on the GM's advice (and how many HC have the time once you get to training camp to be closely involved with personnel decisions). So it comes down to choosing between two DBs for the 5th spot v a 7th LB for STs, it's not just who is the best player, but who'll be claimed on waivers, who has dead money, how far they're from being NFL ready, who else do they think they can land on the PS and how long before they're claimed. What HC actually knows enough to understand these tradeoffs?

The HC can opine on the relative merits of players on the team, but he's dependent on the GM and pro scouts when it comes to players on other teams (gee, I saw this guy for 10 plays two years ago . . . ).

Lowie is not this nefarious entity, micromanaging every decision, that's a tin foil hat theory.

Does Lurie want to be in the loop? Sure, he's got a billion dollars at stake. Wouldn't you demand to be in the loop? Wouldn't you ask your people why they do certain things?

Does Howie work closely with Siri on personnel decisions? Sure, because for one thing Siri has never done this before, for another Howie and his people have to handle all the details, making sure any moves follows NFL protocol.

But I laugh at anyone who thinks Howie's telling Siri you have to play Dillard b/c it'll look bad if I cut a 1st rd pick. He'd just tell you to kiss his ring.

Now Howie might sit with Siri and tell him they need to showcase Ertz in the last exhibition game, because a big game might get a good trade offer - and both men know this season is about accumulating assets for the future. But that's strategy, and you'd hope the GM and HC are on the same page when it comes to those issues.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I wouldn't take all those statements at face value either, because it's often for public consumption. For one thing, HCs simply aren't in touch with all the nuances of the cap and CBA and NFL rules to make these decisions.

So you are saying I should continue

Ron Rivera has final say in Washington, and 

Rivera has final say over Washington’s roster and personnel decisions, and it’s believed the GM will report to him, not Snyder.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2021/01/12/washington-football-general-manager-martin-mayhew/

41 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I’m confused how that in any way helps your point?

The team got worse when Chip gained control. Chip was then fired and Howie went on to win a Super Bowl shortly after. 

You said "I remember when no one wanted to work with Howie and then we hired Chip Kelly." Unless you meant that in some other way, I took it as hiring Chip Kelly somehow invalidated the report about no one wanting to work with Howie. Which doesn't make a lot of sense because in the end Kelly proved the reports were kind of correct since he didn't want to work with him and pushed him off to the side to the other building. 

25 minutes ago, FranklinFldEBUpper said:

 

Because that's what it is. An absolute overreaction.

I think more of the complaint is the absolute way the team got beat.  Resting the starters is fine but there wasn't a lot to be optimistic about among the players that did play.  

1 hour ago, Mike030270 said:

I’m not arguing anything. I said IIRC and then looked up what he said and posted the tweet

It wasn’t a gotcha moment but I guess yours was. Oh well

We now know Howie has control of 53 and Nick may or may not have control of the game day

uhh, how was mine a "gotcha moment"? I said I remember what happened, you tried to post a tweet saying I'm wrong, I posted the actual interview answer. 

 

Anyway, moving on.

22 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I'd point out that when HCs play starters in meaningless games and they get hurt, the criticism flies nonstop.

It's a balance, you can't obsess over injuries, b/c they happen, but you don't have to be foolish either.

With young starters and top reserves, additional snaps may outweigh the risk, with veteran starters, other than a couple dozen snaps to get game day feel in one game, how many snaps does Lane Johnson need to recognize what the defense is going to do?

Do not even go there with Arians implying that preseason games are worthless and/or dangerous for elite veteran and players.

Arians was hit with this concept on WDAE Radio yesterday and was adamant that nothing could be further from the truth.

"We don’t need game experience against Dallas. We gotta get some game experience before we play Dallas,” Arians said. "It’s too late [on Sept. 9], they’re way too good to all of a sudden get [caught] up to game speed.

"Game speed is something different. You know what I mean? If you’re going full speed, you ain’t getting hurt. It would be a freak thing and a freak thing is going to happen. But them not playing and the all of a sudden playing game speed on Thursday Night Football in front of the world. That’s way too fast to find out all of a sudden.”

I'm starting to think afan actually is Howie Roseman. 

6 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

uhh, how was mine a "gotcha moment"? I said I remember what happened, you tried to post a tweet saying I'm wrong, I posted the actual interview answer. 

 

Anyway, moving on.

I didn't. I posted a tweet because I said I wasn't sure

I wasn't trying to insult you by posting the tweet. My apologies if you thought it was a jab

18 minutes ago, NCTANK said:

Oregon up 8-2 after 4. lots of work to do for the boys in blue.

Oregon 8

Penn 2   Final

3 minutes ago, Swoop said:

I'm starting to think afan actually is Howie Roseman. 

He's actually Jeff Lurie.  

Just now, NCiggles said:

He's actually Jeff Lurie.  

What if? I know he obviously isn't, but still...

What if?

59 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Depth is likely good if one guy at a time needs to go in and you've still for 4 of Kelce, Seumalo, Brooks, Lane and Mailata around them.  Once you start subbing two guys at a time it often gets ugly.

A patchwork of 5 backups like last night will generally produce the results seen last night.

Still one would hope they would do a little better against the pats scrubs.

Though it a legit reason to not look good against the pats starters.

6 minutes ago, Swoop said:

What if? I know he obviously isn't, but still...

What if?

Then one would wonder who Lurie is taking advice from on the board???

Maybe @DuckWalk.

5 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Still one would hope they would do a little better against the pats scrubs.

Though it a legit reason to not look good against the pats starters.

Then one would wonder who Lurie is taking advice from on the board???

Maybe @DuckWalk.

Duckwalk is Julian Lurie after he snorts his Adderall 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Well, look at the backups.

First, Dillard and Dickerson didn't play, that's your #6 and #7.

Driscoll was playing OG, he's still learning the position.

Toth was a UDFA out of Army, he's a developmental project.

Opeta is a 2nd year UDFA, he's got power but is learning footwork

Herbig is learning to play center.

Pryor is the most experienced, which is all that's keeping him around.

They already cut Juriga, their patience is not infinite.

Real hard to judge line play without the All 22.  I do wonder who is calling the line play and how basic the calls are in PS.  Lot of one on one blocking.  Herbig struggled last night. I thought Opeta looked okay.  He may be ahead of Herbig as a G at this time but is he just a LG?   Toth outplayed Pryor but the garbage can outplayed Pryor. I don’t think I like Toth’s footwork and not much punch.  Pierschbacher played C in second half and there were a lot of plays where it didn’t look like he engaged anyone.  Again, broadcast TV angles only so hard to judge. 

12 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Real hard to judge line play without the All 22.  I do wonder who is calling the line play and how basic the calls are in PS.  Lot of one on one blocking.  Herbig struggled last night. I thought Opeta looked okay.  He may be ahead of Herbig as a G at this time but is he just a LG?   Toth outplayed Pryor but the garbage can outplayed Pryor. I don’t think I like Toth’s footwork and not much punch.  Pierschbacher played C in second half and there were a lot of plays where it didn’t look like he engaged anyone.  Again, broadcast TV angles only so hard to judge. 

I think Opeta could play both guards and maybe even RT.

He played LT in college so he does have some experience out there though blocking DEs at Weber st is a bit different than in the NFL.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Payton I forget, guys who've won on a regular basis can demand their say, though usually it's collaborative - when the HC and GM are constantly fighting over the roster, one will be gone in short order.

I wouldn't give Gase final authority, he had one winning season in five years.

I don’t for one second believe that Mr. Collaboration is heavy handed and cuts players that the coaches all want to keep.  But if the offensive minded coaches want player Y and the defensive coaches want player X for the 53rd slot, then someone has to make a decision.  Someone has to make the final decision on trades. I suspect there is a lot of collaboration but ultimately in each organization there is a person that has the final say.  This is pretty much an exercise in semantics as much as anything.  It probably comes into play a couple times a year at most. 

53 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

You said "I remember when no one wanted to work with Howie and then we hired Chip Kelly." Unless you meant that in some other way, I took it as hiring Chip Kelly somehow invalidated the report about no one wanting to work with Howie. Which doesn't make a lot of sense because in the end Kelly proved the reports were kind of correct since he didn't want to work with him and pushed him off to the side to the other building. 

Chip wouldn't have wanted to work with anyone - he hired Gamble to be his "yes man" and hired an inexperienced college personnel guy. Chip wanted total control.