June 10, 20223 yr 7 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Did you see the video? The most damning part of the whole day and the moment that really proves how the mob's influence was turned by Trump himself, was at about 2PM, people breached the capital building. They had already gotten past the barricades, attacked some cops, but now a few people were inside, not all of them though, and not the main group. Obviously the police knew, the media knew and certainly Trump knew. Then, 20 minutes later, Trump sends out a tweet not telling the people to calm down or stay peaceful, but attacking Mike Pence and saying he betrayed the country, etc. They show the guy standing up on the steps are reading that tweet, word for word, to the crowd. Then, after that, they all come storming in. That's pretty damning. Yeah, and the guy reading the Tweet attacking Pence over the bullhorn was impactful. My point is if the PB and OK went there in advance, and then weaponized the crowd that arrived, Trump could try and claim ignorance. Say he was encouraging a peaceful march to the Capitol, but the bad actors from the PB and OK were the ones that got the crowd to storm the building. And the fact that those groups were already at the Capitol before Trump's speech proves that THEY were the bad actors with the plan to breach the Capitol, and they took advantage of Trump and his supporters. Basically, Trump throws them under the bus. Which he would happily do. That's why evidence of prior discussions is key. 5 minutes ago, mr_hunt said: oathkeepers & proud boys met the night before...proof that it was a coordinated effort. and they hinted about contact between those 2 groups and trumps inner circle. This would be the silver bullet, if they have it. Show that, and people are going to jail (or they should).
June 10, 20223 yr The committee has to link the attack to Trump, and the Congressmen who were aiding and abetting the rioters. Otherwise this is all a waste of time.
June 10, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said: Yeah I even remember saying at the time after he ended his speech at the rally that he was surprisingly restrained and avoided explicitly calling for violence. He had still some plausible deniability then. But that deleted Pence tweet removed all doubt about what he truly wanted to happen. I can see that argument. Maybe we'd need more -- people to speak to his state of mind at the time to establish the intent behind the Tweet. Again, Trump's best defense is that he is an imbecile who can't comprehend the consequences of his actions.
June 10, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: Case in point for what? I was talking about a public tweet. Obviously that wasn't new information from last night. I'm referring to the timeline laid out in the video. Not directed at you
June 10, 20223 yr 6 minutes ago, vikas83 said: I can see that argument. Maybe we'd need more -- people to speak to his state of mind at the time to establish the intent behind the Tweet. Again, Trump's best defense is that he is an imbecile who can't comprehend the consequences of his actions. Need more to actually convict him of something in a court of law or a court of public opinion? The latter is plausible, the former is a fantasy. I'm not holding my breath that any formal consequences come out of all this.
June 10, 20223 yr 56 minutes ago, Procus said: America sure ain't lookin so great right now with those incompetent bozos in charge. But I'm sure you're ok with 17% inflation "January 6th Commission"
June 10, 20223 yr Just now, we_gotta_believe said: Need more to actually convict him of something in a court of law or a court of public opinion? The latter is plausible, the former is a fantasy. I'm not holding my breath that any formal consequences come out of all this. The court of public opinion is meaningless nowadays. 40% of the country isn't watching and couldn't care less about any of this. They worship their Orange Overlord no matter what. Depending on what they have, an indictment is possible.
June 10, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, vikas83 said: The court of public opinion is meaningless nowadays. 40% of the country isn't watching and couldn't care less about any of this. They worship their Orange Overlord no matter what. Depending on what they have, an indictment is possible. Consider me skeptical.
June 10, 20223 yr It's kind of hard to compare this Commission to past commissions formed over big events, like the 9/11 or Warren Commission. In all three cases, they were formed to clear up any confusion or put to rest any conspiracy theories, find any systemic failures that led to the events and broadly put the event in historical record but in both of the other cases, the guilt for the event was already established. Oswalt was dead and OBL was on the run, hiding in a cave. In this case, it's even more immediately apparent who was to blame and where the guilt fell, but obviously it's trickier, given that it's a former President. The other two didn't recommend any charges, but guilt had already been properly assigned (unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case you think both went unpunished), so it would've been unnecessary to do so.
June 10, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: It's kind of hard to compare this Commission to past commissions formed over big events, like the 9/11 or Warren Commission. In all three cases, they were formed to clear up any confusion or put to rest any conspiracy theories, find any systemic failures that led to the events and broadly put the event in historical record but in both of the other cases, the guilt for the event was already established. Oswalt was dead and OBL was on the run, hiding in a cave. In this case, it's even more immediately apparent who was to blame and where the guilt fell, but obviously it's trickier, given that it's a former President. The other two didn't recommend any charges, but guilt had already been properly assigned (unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case you think both went unpunished), so it would've been unnecessary to do so. The comp is the Watergate hearings. But back then, people were more interested in the truth and were less tribal.
June 10, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: It's kind of hard to compare this Commission to past commissions formed over big events, like the 9/11 or Warren Commission. In all three cases, they were formed to clear up any confusion or put to rest any conspiracy theories, find any systemic failures that led to the events and broadly put the event in historical record but in both of the other cases, the guilt for the event was already established. Oswalt was dead and OBL was on the run, hiding in a cave. In this case, it's even more immediately apparent who was to blame and where the guilt fell, but obviously it's trickier, given that it's a former President. The other two didn't recommend any charges, but guilt had already been properly assigned (unless you're a conspiracy theorist, in which case you think both went unpunished), so it would've been unnecessary to do so. The Watergate hearings is comparable is some respects.
June 10, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, vikas83 said: The comp is the Watergate hearings. But back then, people were more interested in the truth and were less tribal. 1 minute ago, DrPhilly said: The Watergate hearings is comparable is some respects. I feel like it's more of combination. Watergate Committee was more like the investigations into Trump's Ukranian bribery scandal. They were simply looking for guilt. Jan 6, like the 9/11 and Warren Commissions, were looking to give greater context, put to bed conspiracies (good luck with that) and find out how to prevent it from happening again. The problem here is that you can't prevent this from happening again by tweaking a policy or creating a new Department. The only way to do it is to remove one man from holding public office again.
June 10, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The Watergate hearings is comparable is some respects. Except half the country didn't deny Watergate happened.
June 10, 20223 yr Put me in the camp that believes the best we can hope for is that this thing significantly damages Trump politically and ensures that he loses again in 2024. If we can somehow hold the sanity and not drop into an actual civil war we might just be rid of him thereafter.
June 10, 20223 yr 52 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: case in point, we all knew where Trump stood with regard to Pence @barho NO ONE knew he stated to people that Mike Pence deserved to be hung outside of those he told until they told the committee.
June 10, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Toastrel said: Except half the country didn't deny Watergate happened. Which is in part why there are only "some" similarities. The fact that Fox won't air the hearings tells you how rotten things have gotten.
June 10, 20223 yr 4 minutes ago, barho said: NO ONE knew he stated to people that Mike Pence deserved to be hung outside of those he told until they told the committee. No, but we knew what Trump thought about Pence and his actions on the day and he did absolutely nothing to protect Pence which we also knew. I didn't find the statement particularly revealing. I already understood that Trump felt Pence was a traitor on Jan 6th. Maybe others see it differently as you do.
June 10, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The fact that Fox won't air the hearings tells you how rotten things have gotten. I find it pretty incredible the lengths Murdoch went to bury the hearing. They aired counter-programming on FoxNews without commercial interruption, so their engaged viewers didn't even have a chance to sneak away for even a moment to hear the real thing in real time. However, they did air the hearing on a sub-channel, Fox Business. They also offered it to Fox broadcast affiliates, but some like Sinclair opted to stick to regular programming. Quite a gamble.
June 10, 20223 yr 3 minutes ago, toolg said: I find it pretty incredible the lengths Murdoch went to bury the hearing. They aired counter-programming on FoxNews without commercial interruption, so their engaged viewers didn't even have a chance to sneak away for even a moment to hear the real thing in real time. However, they did air the hearing on a sub-channel, Fox Business. They also offered it to Fox broadcast affiliates, but some like Sinclair opted to stick to regular programming. Quite a gamble. The most incredible thing to me is how low the country has fallen to even be able to dream up the possibility that the largest main stream media outlet wouldn't carry Congressional hearings for an event of the magnitude of Jan 6th. We are truly in the realm of the unwell.
June 10, 20223 yr 8 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The most incredible thing to me is how low the country has fallen to even be able to dream up the possibility that the largest main stream media outlet wouldn't carry Congressional hearings for an event of the magnitude of Jan 6th. We are truly in the realm of the unwell. The motive is profit. So the decision to go commercial-free and throw away any revenue is curious. And what are advertisers on the other networks thinking about going against blanket-coverage of the hearing? Interesting what the ratings might be, and how they came up with this approach.
June 10, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, toolg said: The motive is profit. So the decision to go commercial-free and throw away any revenue is curious. And what are advertisers on the other networks thinking about going against blanket-coverage of the hearing? Interesting what the ratings might be, and how they came up with this approach. The motive is long-term profit, not short term. Fox isn't competing with CNN, CBS, NBC, etc. They're competing with the most bat-sheet right wing online conspiracy nonsense you can imagine. Long-term they need credibility with their viewers more than anything. And credibility for them means never straying from the agenda. You saw it on a daily basis when Trump was in office. He attacked Fox as much or more than anyone else. The goal was to keep them in line, keep them pure propaganda. They learned their lesson.
June 10, 20223 yr 54 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The Watergate hearings is comparable is some respects. Yeah, because Nixon said, "People have got to know whether or not their president is a crook." Well Trump is a Crook. Just like Nixon.
June 10, 20223 yr Fox News is the Propaganda arm of the Republican Party. Like Pravda. It's all propaganda, not news.
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