Are there players from crappy teams that you think we should target (and who are potentially available) for picks in upcoming draft?  If so who?  Doesn't mean give up 1st/2nd rounders either

15 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

 

He's getting as fair a chance as you can have. His issues are mental, clearly, and they aren't fixable. He's just too dumb to play QB in the NFL. He needs to switch to a career as an RB, I think he'd actually be decent. Throwing away a football on a free offsides play is just completely inexcusable to me. And considering he had a throwaway on a 4th down play a game or two before, clearly he isn't correcting past mistakes. 

I am not sure why you need to resort to some sort of quasi name calling when evaluating Hurts.  You have no idea what kind of intelligence he possesses. Just stick to what you see on the field.  Certainly he does have mental errors. Plenty of smart people make mental mistakes in high stress situations.  He also has issues with his mechanics which may be fixable and help to improve the mental processing aspect of his came.  If he just got to the top of his drop ready to make a throw, that would be a huge improvement.  Those kind of improvements happen all of the time with QBs.  

@RememberTheKoy not sure if you have seen it.  Jalen Hurts has shown zero, nada, zilch, absolutely no improvement in any of these areas from his draft profile.  You can blame Nick and play calling all you want, but there is receivers open and he is not progressing through his reads to get to them.

 

Weaknesses

• Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws
• Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop
• Slow recognition of early throw opportunities
• Leaves slants and crossers behind targets
• Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws
• Deep arm dip into elongated release
• Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws
• Needs to get better at trusting his pocket
• Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts
• More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I am not sure why you need to resort to some sort of quasi name calling when evaluating Hurts.  You have no idea what kind of intelligence he possesses. Just stick to what you see on the field.  Certainly he does have mental errors. Plenty of smart people make mental mistakes in high stress situations.  He also has issues with his mechanics which may be fixable and help to improve the mental processing aspect of his came.  If he just got to the top of his drop ready to make a throw, that would be a huge improvement.  Those kind of improvements happen all of the time with QBs.  

Please read my posts about him again. In every single one, I've only ever attacked his football IQ. I have no idea what his off field intelligence is, nor do I particularly care. As far as playing QB in the NFL, he isn't smart enough, I've seen more than enough. 

15 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I was looking at 2020.  I was wrong.  Again, my debate isn't whether Wentz is better. He is better. Roseman should have been fired before they traded him.  Wentz doesn't have anything to do with the Eagles.  Sirianni is the issue.  

 

I'll disagree. Sirianni is probably part of the issue for us losing, but you can only do so much when you lack talent at the qb position. They all should have went to Wentz and hugged it out. Howie is the biggest idiot still at gm in the NFL.

17 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

 

He's getting as fair a chance as you can have. His issues are mental, clearly, and they aren't fixable. He's just too dumb to play QB in the NFL. He needs to switch to a career as an RB, I think he'd actually be decent. Throwing away a football on a free offsides play is just completely inexcusable to me. And considering he had a throwaway on a 4th down play a game or two before, clearly he isn't correcting past mistakes. 

I don’t think this pass heavy of an offense is really that fair of a chance. 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

I don’t think this pass heavy of an offense is really that fair of a chance. 

The only explanation for this offense to me is the directive coming from Lowie, wanting to see a super pass heavy attack so they can see exactly what Hurts is. Sirianni had mentioned he liked running the ball when he was hired, and somebody posted the other day he was partly responsible for keeping the run/pass balance in check with Indy. For such a drastic departure from that, I'd have to think there's an outside influence at play, OR, Hurts is really checking out of run plays, or not handing off when the read says he should. Now, Siranni should call more designed runs instead of leaving the decision to Hurts. Hopefully we see some kind of shift. 

47 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

I remember Doug being very excited when they drafted him. I would love to know who was really pushing for him. From the outside looking in, it looks like Howie/Doug/Jeff agreed we needed a back up after seeing McCown against Seattle. And for whatever reason they liked Hurts. Howie's stupidity in telling Wentz about it, then still going ahead with the pick when Wentz expressed his concerns with it, is something else. I totally understand the need/want for a good, solid back up QB. But drafting this guy was not the way to go about it. And it FUBAR'ed this team for at least a few years. 

It kind of depends on who you believe. I know mortensen and schefter have repeatedly said lurie was behind the decision. I think Doug was on board and happy cause he liked hurts as a prospect. And he is a former QB so he probably likes to teach younger players the position and groom them. And i don’t doubt lurie asked Doug his thoughts on hurts. However I have a hard time believing Doug was the main force pushing that when they didn’t give much if any control over the 53 man roster, they ridiculed his game plans weekly and were still questioning him after winning a SB. 

I really think the driving force in that was lurie if you look back at the Eagles track record at quarterback. Go back all the way to McNabb they drafted and developed Feely, brought in doug and had koy detmer. When McNabb was still here they signed Jeff Garcia. They brought in Mike Mahon cause they thought they could fix him and get value out of him down the road. Then they drafted Kevin kolb and signed Michael Vick because they thought both of them could be used as assets down the road whether was with the Eagles or in a trade. They drafted Nick Foles when they had Michael Vick. They brought in Mark Sanchez. They traded for Bradford and then they signed the next off-season re-signed him as a stop gap, Chase Daniel and moved up to drafted Carson Wentz. And then brought in Nick Foles. And then once sudfeld got hurt they brought in Mccown and then drafted a backup in the 2nd round. To me this organization for about 20 years has shown that they value the quarterback position to the point where they will spend draft picks or sign guys (even if publicly they optics aren’t great) where they believe can have value to the current team and then eventually value to the team in terms of a trade.

I firmly believe that in January after the season ended they thought Carson Wentz would be the quarterback in 2021. When he got to mid-February and the realization set in they had to trade him they began looking at other options. you started hearing all these other rumors about them being interested in other quarterbacks besides Jalen hurts. Which kind of tells me they really didn’t think at the start of this offseason they’d be in the position they are right now (which mosher consistently has said since they drafted hurts and since March) 

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

@RememberTheKoy not sure if you have seen it.  Jalen Hurts has shown zero, nada, zilch, absolutely no improvement in any of these areas from his draft profile.  You can blame Nick and play calling all you want, but there is receivers open and he is not progressing through his reads to get to them.

 

Weaknesses

• Has issues sustaining rhythm as passer with so many off-schedule throws
• Inconsistent patience allowing routes to develop
• Slow recognition of early throw opportunities
• Leaves slants and crossers behind targets
• Misses checkdowns and opts for harder throws
• Deep arm dip into elongated release
• Forced speedsters at OU and Alabama to slow for deep throws
• Needs to get better at trusting his pocket
• Quick to drop his eyes when pressure mounts
• More likely to void pocket than climb, scan and throw from it

When a player doesn't progress part of the problem may be with the coaching? Also relying on that player for 75% of your offensive production seems like a bad decision.  

22 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

 

He's getting as fair a chance as you can have. His issues are mental, clearly, and they aren't fixable. He's just too dumb to play QB in the NFL. He needs to switch to a career as an RB, I think he'd actually be decent. Throwing away a football on a free offsides play is just completely inexcusable to me. And considering he had a throwaway on a 4th down play a game or two before, clearly he isn't correcting past mistakes. 

 

A young QB with a HC that doesn't know what he is doing and isn't calling any running plays for the young QB isn't as fair of a chance as you can have.  The incompetence of his inexperienced HC is putting him in a place to fail.  

Need to let Hurts play this out a bit longer and hope Sirianni can self scout and advance himself as a play caller to call a more balanced gameplan that all QBs, especially young inexperienced ones need in order to succeed. 

15 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

Josh Allen has a canon for an arm. Hurts got benched in a college game because he couldn’t throw. 

 

People like you would have been crying about the Eagles drafting Allen and would have had no patience to go through his development and growing pains of his first two seasons. 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

The only explanation for this offense to me is the directive coming from Lowie, wanting to see a super pass heavy attack so they can see exactly what Hurts is. Sirianni had mentioned he liked running the ball when he was hired, and somebody posted the other day he was partly responsible for keeping the run/pass balance in check with Indy. For such a drastic departure from that, I'd have to think there's an outside influence at play, OR, Hurts is really checking out of run plays, or not handing off when the read says he should. Now, Siranni should call more designed runs instead of leaving the decision to Hurts. Hopefully we see some kind of shift. 

I do believe the organization has a stern philosophy of being a pass heavy attack. I think that’s fine with the right guy in place. Hurts is a developmental QB. He can’t be expected to throw this many times at this point in his career. They’re trying to fast forward the progression, which isn’t fair to him. 

I don’t believe Hurts will ever be that guy, and nothing in his college tape or resume suggested he would either. It made no sense for the organization to select him it’s going to be so rigid in its beliefs. 

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

When a player doesn't progress part of the problem may be with the coaching? Also relying on that player for 75% of your offensive production seems like a bad decision.  

But can't you accept that some players just don't have it? Regardless of the amount of coaching they get? 

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

The only explanation for this offense to me is the directive coming from Lowie, wanting to see a super pass heavy attack so they can see exactly what Hurts is. Sirianni had mentioned he liked running the ball when he was hired, and somebody posted the other day he was partly responsible for keeping the run/pass balance in check with Indy. For such a drastic departure from that, I'd have to think there's an outside influence at play, OR, Hurts is really checking out of run plays, or not handing off when the read says he should. Now, Siranni should call more designed runs instead of leaving the decision to Hurts. Hopefully we see some kind of shift. 

Sirianni might just be a moron and not a very good coach. It is possible. Frankly i don’t think he’s doing a good job either. It could be our QB stinks and our coach stinks. Very realistic possibility

I tend to think the Eagles as an organization have looked at this season as a complete rebuild and wanting to see the young players make strides as their ultimate win. Meaning the thing that you’re getting out of this season is not so much wins, which probably irks people but that’s the reality of a rebuild.

to me they are trying to see if they can develop and break some of his bad habits by giving him as many opportunities to throw the ball as possible. To make a decision at the end of the year with as much data throwing the football as possible. They want to see him have that lightbulb turn the light switch on moment where you start seeing him develop and improve upon some of his weaknesses so that they can go into the off-season knowing they have their quarterback or not knowing they have a quarterback. Could they set up game plans that are way more fitted to Jalen hurts and his skill set at the current moment? Absolutely. But I think the eagles view that as they aren’t helping themselves long term because are stuck on the idea they need an elite passer in order to get where they want to be which is a SB contender. 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

So you think NS sees these issues with Hurts, on film, and keeps it to themselves?

OR, does the QB just not want to change(which was a huge fault on Wentz's)

It looks like Hurts is the perfect storm of bad. Relied on athletic ability that doesnt cut it in the NFL. because of this he really didnt have to learn to read defense(poor...REAL POOR MANS VICK) and he never had arm strength and you're not going to change that 

It's not even fair to compare him to Vick or Lamar. Both those guys were/are so much faster than Hurts it's laughable. Also Vick's arm is at one end of the spectrum, while Hurts is at the exact opposite. 

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It kind of depends on who you believe. I know mortensen and schefter have repeatedly said lurie was behind the decision. I think Doug was on board and happy cause he liked hurts as a prospect. And he is a former QB so he probably likes to teach younger players the position and groom them. And i don’t doubt lurie asked Doug his thoughts on hurts. However I have a hard time believing Doug was the main force pushing that when they didn’t give much if any control over the 53 man roster, they ridiculed his game plans weekly and were still questioning him after winning a SB. 

I really think the driving force in that was Lori if you look back at the Eagles track record at quarterback. Go back all the way to McNabb they drafted and developed Feely, brought in doug and had lots detmer. When McNabb was still here they signed Jeff Garcia. They brought in Mike Mahon cause they thought they could fix him and get value out of him down the road. Then they drafted Kevin kolb and signed Michael Vick because they thought both of them could be used as assets down the road whether was with the Eagles or in a trade. They drafted Nick Foles when they had Michael Vick. They brought in Mark Sanchez. They traded for Bradford and then they signed the next off-season re-signed him as a stop gap, Chase Daniel and moved up to drafted Carson Wentz. And then brought in Nick Foles. And then once sudfeld got hurt they brought in Mccown and then drafted a backup in the 2nd round. To me this organization for about 20 years has shown that they value the quarterback position to the point where they will spend draft picks or sign guys (even if publicly they optics aren’t great) where they believe can have value to the current team and then eventually value to the team in terms of a trade.

I firmly believe that in January after the season ended they thought Carson Wentz would be the quarterback in 2021. When he got to mid-February and the realization set in they had to trade him they began looking at other options. you started hearing all these other rumors about them being interested in other quarterbacks besides Jalen hurts. Which kind of tells me they really didn’t think at the start of this offseason they’d be in the position they are right now (which mosher consistently has said since they drafted hurts and since March) 

I don't know who drove the decision to draft Hurts.  It was a bad decision and it played out just like people who had the worst fears about the pick thought it could.  Wentz clearly did go downhill last season.  Then he asked to be traded in large part because he was benched for Hurts during the season.  Wentz is still here if Hurts wasn't the pick.  I don't know how the team does.  I suspect that Wentz still would have had a poor season.  I just think that the QB position isn't the mess that it currently is.  

22 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Are there players from crappy teams that you think we should target (and who are potentially available) for picks in upcoming draft?  If so who?  Doesn't mean give up 1st/2nd rounders either

No.  By definition you'd be overpaying for players acquired by trade; not only by giving up draft picks but having to extend their current deals (I'm sure you're not suggesting acquiring a rental).  With the Eagles currently cap-strapped they're better off rebuilding mainly through the draft.

46 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

I was expecting Hurts to not be good and I was right. The guy has below average arm talent and horrible processing skills. But keep defending him tooth and nail. 

I expected him to be bad, (not this bad), I hoped he would be better and progress in his abilities, seeing how he had the entire offseason as the QB1 to prepare and improve...

He has not improved at all since last year. He is whom I feared he is.  He is a guy who has relied on his legs and athletic ability to get by, that works through college, it doesn't work in the NFL.

2 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

No.  By definition you'd be overpaying for players acquired by trade; not only by giving up draft picks but having to extend their current deals (I'm sure you're not suggesting acquiring a rental).  With the Eagles currently cap-strapped they're better off rebuilding mainly through the draft.

I'm thinking more guys like Willie Gay Jr., Dorian O'Daniel, etc. that aren't getting much/any tick and are on rookie contracts

4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Wentz has looked good.  Remember all of those guys in here claiming Hurts was better than Wentz?  Yeah.  So do I.  

He only played 13 games in 2017 but if you take his current pace he’s on he’s going to throw for 4% higher of a completion percentage (64%) and more passing yards 3348 in those 13 games. Also 20-2 td to int ratio. I’d argue on a team that wasn’t nearly as good as the 2017 eagles. He’s on pace to finish with 64%, 4378 26 tds and 3 ints. I would also argue if you didn’t leave the Rams game early there’s a chance the Colts would’ve won that game. They were the better team in the second half of that game until he got hurt

Can we please stop with the insanity where the Colts bench a healthy Wentz with 5 games to go? There is no chance of that happening.

6 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

Can we please stop with the insanity where the Colts bench a healthy Wentz with 5 games to go? There is no chance of that happening.

What is this healthy Wentz thing you speak of? 

16 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know who drove the decision to draft Hurts.  It was a bad decision and it played out just like people who had the worst fears about the pick thought it could.  Wentz clearly did go downhill last season.  Then he asked to be traded in large part because he was benched for Hurts during the season.  Wentz is still here if Hurts wasn't the pick.  I don't know how the team does.  I suspect that Wentz still would have had a poor season.  I just think that the QB position isn't the mess that it currently is.  

My belief always was the only way that you were going to keep wentz was if you fired doug cause they seemed to not be on the same page since 2017 ( for the majority of seasons) and fired howie. I think Carson looked at doug like it wasn’t a good fit between them. Almost like he thought reich was more influential than doug for how he played in 2017. And I just don’t think he trusted Howie after that draft pick. There is a part of me that believes as soon as they made that Hurts pick he wanted out. 

personally I think the Hurts pick hurt his performance. I also think just the whole pandemic might have factored into throwing him off. But I do see this year when he trusts his head coach and the organization that he is able to play at the level we came accustomed to in 2019. 

9 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

But can't you accept that some players just don't have it? Regardless of the amount of coaching they get? 

No - everyone is a superstar and deserves a participation trophy.  

I can accept and believe Hurts isn't the answer at QB.  Hurts isn't the problem long term.  If he's out after this season as a starter, the question remains can Sirianni develop a more talented prospect or coordinate an offense for a proven veteran QB.  I have no confidence that Sirianni and his current staff can do either at this point.  

23 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

People like you would have been crying about the Eagles drafting Allen and would have had no patience to go through his development and growing pains of his first two seasons. 

People like you were upset when the Eagles won the super bowl because you hate nick foles and your agenda is more important