4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

so i give you facts and you call me names?

No wonder why we cant have a conversation about this. 

Facui has factually flip flopped and talked out both sides of his mouth and "changed his mind" numerous times. 

There is no ifs, ands or buts about it.

So when people say they dont trust him, nor the government(also flip flopped a ton) I truly dont blame them.

Side note, What is this week 94 of the 2 week to flatten the curve? 

ZZZ 

I don’t want to jump into this argument, but the point of science is to change your opinion when new information is gathered. I hate the term flip flop in politics, are people not allowed to change?

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

We'll never know what happened with the Wuhan lab (don't assume the Chinese are covering up some nefarious conspiracy, more likely, they're covering up bureaucratic ineptitude, Xi has cracked down on any criticism of the Chinese government, including many minor incidents), but the latest intelligence report doesn't provide a lot of support for the conspiracy theory.

https://www.dni.gov/files/ODNI/documents/assessments/Declassified-Assessment-on-COVID-19-Origins.pdf

Even if it was a lab leak, most likely it merely accelerated the inevitable, that is, they were studying samples of coronaviruses gathered from wild animals, which would have jumped to humans at some point.

One problem around the world is the standards for laboratories studying viruses and other pathogens tend to vary, and many countries have lax safety controls.

However, the real problem is as human populations increase, people go deeper into areas where there are wild animals with viruses and other pathogens that our species has little or no immunity, and eventually there will be transfer, especially in the case of animals used for food, but also through feces, fleas, etc. And of course, the existence of billions of malnourished humans provide walking petri dishes for the cultivation of mutations in known pathogens.

But it's not like plagues are new, the Roman Empire was probably brought down by bubonic plague, and of course the "Black Death" of the 13th century. Along with numerous other diseases - once population density got to a certain critical level, diseases that might have wiped out an isolated village and then burned out could now spread around a large portion of the world.

Overnight global travel is relatively new, less than 50 years old to the mass populations. Populations exposed that lack evolved immunities have multiplied as well. Plus, viruses and bacteria evolve as well.  You reference transmittal in the days of sailing ships with rats.  We are facing much greater challenges today. 

2 minutes ago, WentzFan11 said:

I don’t want to jump into this argument, but the point of science is to change your opinion when new information is gathered. I hate the term flip flop in politics, are people not allowed to change?

The lack of scientific understand, even of the very basic scientific process is just beyond anything I thought.

Bacarty bacartying 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

When you call people conspiracy theorists and then prove them right within 6 months or so, yes I think it's an issue. 

This is one of the biggest issues we’re having now in society. You’re both theoretically correct. No intelligent person would disagree with either premise.

16 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

so i give you facts and you call me names?

No wonder why we cant have a conversation about this. 

Facui has factually flip flopped and talked out both sides of his mouth and "changed his mind" numerous times. 

There is no ifs, ands or buts about it.

So when people say they dont trust him, nor the government(also flip flopped a ton) I truly dont blame them.

Side note, What is this week 94 of the 2 week to flatten the curve? 

ZZZ 

As I understand the issue, the learning of the science is ever evolving, they know things now about covid that they didn't know 2 years ago, they know more about the science behind the vaccines and it's Interactions with the body, they know more about how covid mutates.

It's an ongoing process you say hypocrisy , I say evolving scientific data 

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I'm vaxxed, mentioned it numerous times. 

I dont think vaxxed should be mandated. Neither did Fauci, Neither did Pelosi, Neither did numerous other scientist and politicians. 

 

There's no mandate. You can choose not to get vaxxed like the moron you are (Not you specifically, the general you). 

But, if you don't want to get it, then you don't get to participate in everyday society like the rest of us. How is that difficult to understand?

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

still shocked people follow "science" blindly when time and time again it gets proven wrong, dangerous, or a mistake. 

I get it, the majority of the time we get it right, but to follow it blindly is insane to me. 

Science used to be self policing, because to be a good scientest, you were taught to be skeptical about everything stated as fact.  Thats no longer allowed. Now you are suppossed to not question the science, so science has lost its underlying principle. 

 

 

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

still shocked people follow "science" blindly when time and time again it gets proven wrong, dangerous, or a mistake. 

I get it, the majority of the time we get it right, but to follow it blindly is insane to me. 

It's not about blindly following science. It's about the PROCESS. How many times does this need to be explained to you? Go read about what the actual scientific method is, and you'll understand that things change, constantly. 

13 minutes ago, austinfan said:

While the New Yorker is a libertard publication, it has some of the best reporting out there (advantage of journalistic standards, WSJ used to have great reporting, but Murdoch slashed that to the bone).

This is probably the best analysis of what drives Chinese behavior toward disclosure:

"The stakes are high on all sides. From one perspective, proving the virus has a natural origin is even worse for China. If wildlife farms were responsible for the pandemic, that would implicate the policies of President Xi Jinping. If there was a lab leak, just one, or a few, scientists are culpable of an accident. Either way, it is likely that the Chinese government prefers a storm of swirling theories, within which they can continue to push their own: that U.S. soldiers brought the virus to Wuhan in October, 2019, during the World Military Games, or that the American government manufactured the virus in Fort Detrick, Maryland. Or they can blame imported frozen food. The conspiracy theories branch out from there, in their own kind of evolutionary tree."

I used to like the New Yorker but it is just too woke for me now.

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

yes, and YOU, and other "mandators" arent letting people allow things to change, and give it time to see where it goes. 

People "like you" are gonna have 2 vaccines, 2 masks,  15 booster shots to help your risk go from 99% to 99.5%. and think that its 10000% ok 

I got my vaccines as soon as I could. I'll gladly take a booster when/if it's deemed needed. I understand that vaccines are about those most vulnerable, not me and my relatively strong immune system. 

Unless you have a legitimate medical reason not to get one, then you are a selfish POS. There's no debate needed on this. 

And what time do you need? You don't think any side effects from the billions of vaccines given out already would have popped up? What do you think is gonna happen? People gonna just start dropping dead who have been vaxxed? Vaccines are A GODSEND for humanity, and people who thumb their nose at them are flat out morons. 

3 minutes ago, Desertbirds said:

I used to like the New Yorker but it is just too woke for me now.

I skip opinion pieces, I don't read editorial pages for that reason (waste of time).

I read the New Yorker for the articles and the cartoons.

My attitude is I can think for myself, give me facts I don't know, not opinions.

10 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

still shocked people follow "science" blindly when time and time again it gets proven wrong, dangerous, or a mistake. 

I get it, the majority of the time we get it right, but to follow it blindly is insane to me. 

What about people who reject science blindly? I submit that is the far more serious problem.

39 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

It's somewhat ironic that you believe the claims of politicians about Fauci to assert he lied in his testimony to Congress about NIH funding to the Wuhan lab because Fauci is a politician.  Maybe you should  further examine the claims that he lied.  

 

There's a paper trail and facts that prove Fauci lied.  Not just blindly listening to politicians.  Again, there's more than enough smoke out there to at least make you question and think about things rather than blindly following what is being said.

2 hours ago, NCiggles said:

I believe that is Tony Corrente.  

https://www.change.org/p/nfl-fire-tony-corrente

I mean, how can you trust the NFL anymore? This is a horrible look.  Between this and with Gruden getting railroaded, and Washington stuff being buried?  Seriously? 

10 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Science used to be self policing, because to be a good scientest, you were taught to be skeptical about everything stated as fact.  Thats no longer allowed. Now you are suppossed to not question the science, so science has lost its underlying principle. 

 

 

As a practicing scientist, I can say with confidence that this is not correct.

2 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I mean, how can you trust the NFL anymore? This is a horrible look.  Between this and with Gruden getting railroaded, and Washington stuff being burioed?  Seriously? 

seeing all of this Cassius Marsh stuff just reminds me of Curtis Marsh.  What a failed project he was.

Friend of mine is a rabid anti covid vaxer. He almost died two weeks ago in the icu unit. 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I skip opinion pieces, I don't read editorial pages for that reason (waste of time).

I read the New Yorker for the articles and the cartoons.

My attitude is I can think for myself, give me facts I don't know, not opinions.

There are opinion pieces supported with data and there are opinion pieces supported with air. I read the former and ignore the latter.

12 minutes ago, Utebird said:

As I understand the issue, the learning of the science is ever evolving, they know things now about covid that they didn't know 2 years ago, they know more about the science behind the vaccines and it's Interactions with the body, they know more about how covid mutates.

It's an ongoing process you say hypocrisy , I say evolving scientific data 

Science is a dialogue, which is why you have to delve deeper than newspaper articles, most journalists lack a scientific background and simply cherry pick a few sentences out of an article's conclusion or a quote from an author, and don't spend the time to actually read the article and note the caveats, or read similar articles and understand the conversation. Having been interviewed by reporters, it became obvious what they were looking for was a "sound bite," not to understand the complexities of a situation.

The quick and dirty way to educate yourself is find a couple recent review articles in reputable journals (there are numerous "fake" journals out there, look who's publishing the journal, though some open access journals are fine, if unsure, google the journal's name and read the critiques). A good review article summarizes the history and current state of knowledge. Meta-studies use statistical methods to aggregate the findings of numerous studies, many of which are too narrowly focused for anyone but those working in that area to spend the time to read.

Education is hard work, pulling crap off Facebook is easy.

1 hour ago, Desertbirds said:

I did not put YOU on ignore - which, of course, is a testament to my toleration.

You should have already done it for various other reasons.

1 minute ago, Bacarty2 said:

yes, and if it was a 70% chance of survival to 99%, I'd be on board. 

But the constant changing, adding, and different conversations about this vaccine over .05%...(maybe less) isnt worth the fighting, the depletion of our fire dept, PD, etc etc 

Imagine being in a house fire, your families about to die and you stop to ask the Fireman if he's vaxxed before he saves your life lol. and then telling him NO, dont save me and my kids because your a moron for not being vaxxed lol. 

Imagine creating weird made up scenarios that would never happen.

Again, vaccines are basic grade 3 level science. Anybody that refuses to understand how they work are sad people, who generally like to go against the grain for the attention it gives them. 

22 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I love this justification..."Its not really a mandate" lol. 

When you lose your job, could lose your family, lose EVERYTHING you've every worked for because you dont have something it's a mandate. lets be honest

A mandate that this president, the speaker of the house, the VP, the NIAID director said wouldnt happen less than 8 months ago. 

Cant wait to see people shove a plunger up your arse because it's in the name of science and you cant keep your job if you dont F yourself weekly with it. 

Its not a mandate, it's a choice with like all choices consequences.

I registered my two daughters pre K this year, as required they needed to be up to date on their vaccinations, MMR DTap ect...and records of those vaccinations given to school, without the consequence is no admittance to school.

Been like that for a long long, time a very minuscule amount if people whine about it 

My wife works at a college in the campuses student health center, her job required her to be vaccinated to work on campus, the consequence of not being vaccinated was not working, they also require her to have a graduate degree to perform her duties, without acquiring said credentials she wouldn't be able to do the job she was hired to do, no one mandated she get a graduate degree, it was a requirement for her job not a mandate 

When I worked at a restaurant it was required to have a food handlers permit , it was a requirement for employment not a mandate.

 

48 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Or both.  Hurts backpedaling contributed to the miss as did Smith’s stumble.  

We'll see when all 22 comes out. Would be kinda weird if Smith immediately went to the sideline and told Hurts where to put the ball if his stumble had any impact.