8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Yeah, obviously Mailata gets the most credit, followed by Stoutland. No one would dispute that, or shouldn’t. 

But Howie absolutely deserves credit for listening to his guys and moving up for him. 31 other teams didn’t do it. Hell, people in here were calling the Eagles arrogant for making the pick. It only looked like an obvious move to make in hindsight for a ton of people. 

He moved up because that’s the area where 31 other teams would do it. So I guess he gets a smidge of credit for trading away a 2019 7th or whatever it took to move up. I still don’t think he deserves a ton of credit. There was literally nothing to scout him by other than his measurables and the athleticism he showed on rugby tape. 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

The WR situation.   That Lowie created.  

Clearly those were his decisions, but the injuries aren't something you can really prevent. Wallace didn't really have a injury history, Hollins had only played one season, and DJax had a history of only missing about 3-5 games a year.  Ultimately, you have to put the blame on Howie for that. We had also drafted Gibson and he never panned out as a pro. Those decisions didn't work and, IMO, were a huge contributor to our offensive struggles from 2018-2020.

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Maybe so, I don’t recall and it’s laughable if true. It’s a 7th round pick. Just speaking from my personal view of the pick. I was always in the mindset of "this will probably never work out, but it’s fun and worth the gamble.”

Freak athlete at a premier position to be taught by a great coach in round 7?   Sign me up.  

That's where you roll the dice and trust your coaches.

 

1 minute ago, BigEFly said:

Howie wanted to build the offense around 12?  Now we have Howie such a control freak that he is designing the offense.  I am not a fan of the accountant but that is a bridge too far.

So you think Howie allowed Doug to dictate whatever offensive philosophy he wanted and just went out and got the players to fill the 12 personnel depth chart dictated by Doug?

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

He moved up because that’s the area where 31 other teams would do it. So I guess he gets a smidge of credit for trading away a 2019 7th or whatever it took to move up. I still don’t think he deserves a ton of credit. There was literally nothing to scout him by other than his measurables and the athleticism he showed on rugby tape. 

He gets credit for having the balls to take a giant rugby player, and listening to Stout that he was worth it, could he developed and to get ahead of the Steelers. 

Just now, eagle45 said:

So you think Howie allowed Doug to dictate whatever offensive philosophy he wanted and just went out and got the players to fill the 12 personnel depth chart dictated by Doug?

That’s pretty much how it works. 

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You keep saying that.  Like rankings mean anything.  Goedert was a top 20 TE (production) in 2020. Production matters.  Not rankings.  Hard to say what Hurts and this offense will even mean to the tight ends.  Especially since Hurts stays away from the middle of the field.  

TEs also block. Lane Johnson, Jason Kelce, Brandon Brooks, etc... have "Zero production" --- but they help the team win games. 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Translation.  "Don’t correct me or tell me something I don’t want to hear.  Because I’ll get mad and say something stupid and then get bent when you come back at me”.  
 

Got it.  

What did you correct me on?  I want to hear it.  This is rich. 

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

 

That’s pretty much how it works. 

Have you been around for the past offseason where they talked about what Howie and Lurie were getting their hands into?  I think we can all realize, by now, Howie wasn't just taking Doug's shopping list to the grocery store.

15 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That’s not true. There were a lot of folks killing Howie in here for taking Mailata. 

Maybe a bit of disbelief initially that Howie traded up for a big Aussie rugby. Player but then everyone did their homework and concluded if anyone could turn him into a football player it was Stoutland and we saw the tapes of him playing rugby. 

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I am glad we can agree that bad decisions by the front office contributed to this teams downfall.  

Good decisions helped us win it all in 2017. Hopefully good decisions will help us become a top team again quickly.

 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You keep saying that.  Like rankings mean anything.  Goedert was a top 20 TE (production) in 2020. Production matters.  Not rankings.  Hard to say what Hurts and this offense will even mean to the tight ends.  Especially since Hurts stays away from the middle of the field.  

I keep saying it because it’s representative of the quality of player Howie drafted in 2018. Goedert is an elite blocking TE, and among the best handful of two-way TEs in the league. He needs to be healthy. That’s what is holding him back. On a per game basis, he was pretty productive last year.

If the Eagles decide they want to build around Hurts and that TE isn’t as valuable because of Hurts’ limitations then so be it. That doesn’t change how good he is. 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’m sure you’re sober enough, I hope, to go back and read the past few pages.  But you go ahead and celebrate a poor draft year because we extended two players this week.   

You do realize everyone (other than you) acknowledges that the 2018 draft (as it stands now) was a very good draft (excellent by NFL standards) right?  Maybe it’s time to seek psychological help for your delusions of grandeur? 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

He gets credit for having the balls to take a giant rugby player, and listening to Stout that he was worth it, could he developed and to get ahead of the Steelers. 

I guess, I just don’t see taking a guy in the 7th as having balls. Like I said, if it didn’t work out I would laugh at anyone using it as criticism. In this particular instance I would think even the majority of Howie haters would agree with the pick even if he never amounted to anything. 

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

Have you been around for the past offseason where they talked about what Howie and Lurie were getting their hands into?  I think we can all realize, by now, Howie wasn't just taking Doug's shopping list to the grocery store.

Of course Howie and Lurie meddled. I’m not disputing that. I disagree with the extent you’re taking it to. 

13 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I don’t remember that at all.  I remember a lot of "hmmm, whatever.  I guess we’ll see. He’s a big MFER”.  Or something to that effect.  

If you don't remember check in with @justrelax There was a lot more than hmmm, whatever at the time.

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Wow.  This one is right up there with the practice comment you made.  We’re not drafting a TE with our first pick to be a "blocking TE”.  At least I would hope not.  

 

2 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I guess, I just don’t see taking a guy in the 7th as having balls. Like I said, if it didn’t work out I would laugh at anyone using it as criticism. In this particular instance I would think even the majority of Howie haters would agree with the pick even if he never amounted to anything. 

Does Howie get any credit for the pick or no?

6 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Maybe a bit of disbelief initially that Howie traded up for a big Aussie rugby. Player but then everyone did their homework and concluded if anyone could turn him into a football player it was Stoutland and we saw the tapes of him playing rugby. 

Everyone? No. 

2 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Of course Howie and Lurie meddled. I’m not disputing that. I disagree with the extent you’re taking it to. 

If Howie and Lurie allowed Doug to change the complexion and base of the entire offense while using their top pick to get Doug a player who filled out that starting lineup, then they how can one argue that they meddled?  I'd say they were laid back at that point.

31 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

So you think Howie allowed Doug to dictate whatever offensive philosophy he wanted and just went out and got the players to fill the 12 personnel depth chart dictated by Doug?

I don’t believe they wanted to "build” the team around "12 personnel”.  It was (likely) more along the lines that having TE’s like Ertz and Goedert could allow them more flexibility in running "more” 12 personnel” sets.  
It would ideally make the offense more difficult to defend against since the primary offense would be a hybrid west coast and option offense, similar to what it looked like in the Super Bowl.  But unfortunately Carson "didn’t want to run Nick Foles plays” so they had to adapt it to Wentz’ liking. 

6 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Maybe a bit of disbelief initially that Howie traded up for a big Aussie rugby. Player but then everyone did their homework and concluded if anyone could turn him into a football player it was Stoutland and we saw the tapes of him playing rugby. 

I don't even remember any disbelief in here.  Disbelief in the 7th Round?  Anyone who understands the Draft knows that the 7th Round ... and the 6th Round ... are crap shoots.  The majority of the players taken in those two rounds are ones that you do not believe will sign with your team in  the UDFA period. Drafting them gives you exclusive rights to sign them.

Just now, eagle45 said:

If Howie and Lurie allowed Doug to change the complexion and base of the entire offense while using their top pick to get Doug a player who filled out that starting lineup, then they how can one argue that they meddled?  I'd say they were laid back at that point.

They meddled at times, acquiesced at others. 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

He can have it.  He needs it.  

You should have said that an hour ago. 

1 minute ago, mattwill said:

I don't even remember any disbelief in here.  Disbelief in the 7th Round?  Anyone who understands the Draft knows that the 7th Round ... and the 6th Round ... are crap shoots.  The majority of the players taken in those two rounds are ones that you do not believe will sign with your team in  the UDFA period. Drafting them gives you exclusive rights to sign them.

A lot of people in here don’t understand the draft, Matt. 

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

   
 

I still can’t believe a grown man used the word "bullying” on a message board.  JFC.  

Well there you have it.  Quality and production. Great pick.  
 

PFF.  Great sourcing there.  

What would you call your "message board personality”?  What would others on this board call you? 

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Well if those are the rules, you should have said that.  FFS.  And yes.  Most people understand eh draft enough to know not to get crazy over a project pick in the 7th round.  I still don’t remember that uproar.  

Uproar? Nah, but there were people complaining about the arrogance of spending a pick on a guy who never played football.