35 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I'd love to see the All-22 to see what the routes looked like down the field... were they there to be had and Hurts just didn't see them or couldn't get them there, or was it a complete disaster?   

The announcers were bringing it up at least once a series that he missed a read/open WR/or just flat out had a brain fart.

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

That throw to Ward was incredibly dumb and I'm not so sure he didn't mean to sail that out the back of the EZ and just short armed it...then the CB decided to be nice and give the Make a Wish team a gift.

That throw is an INT if the opposing team plays defense.

14 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

I didn't really mind the frustration part of it.  What bothered me was he stared down the WR the whole time, yet didn't even see him fall down.  That's not really seeing the field at all.

I do.  All the histrionics were for the fans, no one else.   

When a player does that stuff, it tells me their head isn't in the right place.

Like do you really think Hurts didnt know what happened?  He threw the freaking pass and the replays are on about 75 screens throughout the stadium. He was simply trying to absolve himself to the audience, no more no less

 

Its like when a player drops a pass or something and looks at their hands, or wipes their hands on their shorts when you know they just dropped it.

16 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

After the bomb to Lamb, where Wallace was nowhere to be found, the three next longest Cowboy plays were to TEs.

Again, our LBs and Safeties suck.

They may suck in pass coverage but at least theyre worse against the run👍

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

We knew/know the team sucks.  That's expected.  It is what it is.  

The real issue, for this year, becomes the point where you cannot evaluate what you have.  

***Dickerson has looked horrible through 2 games.  I get all the excuses...it's early, he's recovering, don't judge so absurdly quickly.  I'm not judging him, but he WAS hyped as a slam dunk huge talent when he is on the field.  He gets/deserves time, but there's absolutely no certainty at this point that he's part of the solution to this fragmented OL.

***Smith/Reagor/Watkins.  With an overall offense and QB so dysfunctional, it's becoming nearly impossible to judge our massive WR investment.  Is Devonta Smith having trouble separating or is Hurts CONSTANTLY late delivering floaters, rendering every Smith target a contested catch?  And his poor strength and frame have stood out as issues with pass breakups on those contested catches.  Is Reagor rapidly closing in on bust status?  Is Watkins a stud or just a 2 deep catch per game Todd Pinkston?  Or are all these guys just getting screwed over by a complete inability to get them the football?

***Siriani.  This is the most loaded question of them all.  How much control does this guy even have over the team?  He's talking about what "the charts say" as rationale for his decisions?  A guy who waxes poetic about being pathologically competitive sits everyone for the entire preseason (when this has been done under multiple prior coaches under Lowie).  

For all of this, Smith at least looks capable. He made one catch last night on a simple hook route, then was gang tackled by like 6 defenders and still kept moving. It was very impressive to me. He also appears to be able to get open, just completely handcuffed by Hurts. Frustrating. 

12 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Given the flop rate on QBs taken in the top 15 over the last decade, you're better off going with guys like Hurts and waiting until a top over 30 veteran hits free agency.

2021:  Lawrence (1), Wilson (2), Lance (3), Fields (11), Jones (15)

2020:  Burrow (1), Tua (5), Herbert (6),

2019:  Murray (1), D Jones (6), Haskins (15)

2018:  Mayfield (1), Darnold (3), Allen (7), Rosen (10)

2017:  Trubisky (2), Mahomes (10), Watson (12)

2016:  Goff (1), Wentz (2),

2015:  Winston (1), Mariota (2)

2014:  Bortles (3)

2012:  Luck (1), RGIII (2), Tannehill (8)

2011:  Newton (1), Gabbaert (10)

I'd probably go with Minshew over almost half this group!

Yeah I'm ok with Minshew and take a Shot at Rodgers, and or Watson...

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I can tell that he did a poor job.  I don't care that receivers may have been open.  The fact that they are open and not the first read points, still, to a Siranni problem.  They have NO Fing creativity at all.  The plays are mishmosh of bs that we have seen repeatedly over the last 4 seasons.  I feel more certain that Siranni isn't the answer than Hurts at this point.  

Wow.  You may want to revisit this.

This is the NFL.  The first read will not always be available.  Even so, Hurts was still missing open first reads.  Or telegraphing the pass.

This offense clearly looks different than Doug's.  (Doug also struggled at play calling his first season.  Then won a SB.)

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

For all of this, Smith at least looks capable. He made one catch last night on a simple hook route, then was gang tackled by like 6 defenders and still kept moving. It was very impressive to me. He also appears to be able to get open, just completely handcuffed by Hurts. Frustrating. 

I think there are multiple good players buried by this mess.  The trouble is figuring out who they are and maintaining their development.  

20 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

He’s too old.  So is cousins.  No.  Blow it up.  Keep Minshew.  If you don’t like a QB high in next years draft.  Kick one of those 1st rounders to 2023 until you find one you like.  Suck for a couple of years until you get the right GM, HC and QB.  

he is older, but if you get 4-5 good years out of Rodgers it would be worth it. 

6 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I can tell that he did a poor job.  I don't care that receivers may have been open.  The fact that they are open and not the first read points, still, to a Siranni problem.  They have NO Fing creativity at all.  The plays are mishmosh of bs that we have seen repeatedly over the last 4 seasons.  I feel more certain that Siranni isn't the answer than Hurts at this point.  

Not necessarily.  If the pre-snap read is wrong, then the read you make first could be the wrong one.  

 

They could both be the wrong answer.  But, I think the jury on Hurts is getting ready to return a verdict pretty soon.  How he responds this week will be a big test.  Sirianni has a big test this week as well, but I think that the jury on him is still very much out.   

Smith is a stud, least of my concerns

Reagor also had a decent game, and Quez looks like he could be a legit weapon

We need a QB who can throw on time

2 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

That is the point I was trying to make last night.

Although called too often, the pass plays appeared to be well designed and against the appropriate coverage.

The run/pass ratio is a separate issue from the calls themselves.

I made that same point last night right before halftime and got attacked for it. It’s hard to judge an offense when on third down goedert has two steps on the defender and where a ball should be thrown in front of him so he can catch it and run for an easy first down and get some nice YAC yards. Instead hurts throws it behind him, hitting the defender and the drive is stalled. That is an easy pitch and catch in the NFL. 

sirianni clearly needs to call more runs than just three. That’s ridiculous. It’s like when doug only called 6 runs with miles sanders in the seattle game last year. Sanders and gainwell need more touches especially with our oline crumbling right now. 

However that issue aside, if our QB can’t make ta simple pitch and catch throw to goedert on third down and has issues making the routine throws then our offense is destined to be bad whether we run sanders more or not. it is some of the same issues we had last year when people defended doug and Carson would miss routine and simple throws. the nfl will see on film hurts can’t make those throws routinely and then sell out to stop the run daring hurts to beat them with his arm. When the defenses make that adjustment they will struggle until hurts improves and becomes consistent in that aspect

3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

he is older, but if you get 4-5 good years out of Rodgers it would be worth it. 

With the way QBs are protected now, playing QB into your late 30's won't as much of an exception.

1 minute ago, eagle45 said:

We knew/know the team sucks.  That's expected.  It is what it is.  

The real issue, for this year, becomes the point where you cannot evaluate what you have.  

***Dickerson has looked horrible through 2 games.  I get all the excuses...it's early, he's recovering, don't judge so absurdly quickly.  I'm not judging him, but he WAS hyped as a slam dunk huge talent when he is on the field.  He gets/deserves time, but there's absolutely no certainty at this point that he's part of the solution to this fragmented OL.

***Smith/Reagor/Watkins.  With an overall offense and QB so dysfunctional, it's becoming nearly impossible to judge our massive WR investment.  Is Devonta Smith having trouble separating or is Hurts CONSTANTLY late delivering floaters, rendering every Smith target a contested catch?  And his poor strength and frame have stood out as issues with pass breakups on those contested catches.  Is Reagor rapidly closing in on bust status?  Is Watkins a stud or just a 2 deep catch per game Todd Pinkston?  Or are all these guys just getting screwed over by a complete inability to get them the football?

 

I agree that Smith is the hardest one to evaluate at this point.  He has done well settling down in the zone.  He seems to not get great separation but that's hard to judge.  On the one contested catch, he had separation and was open.  The throw was just defendable.  I think there are likely other throws where Smith is very open but Hurts hasn't targeted him.  I think Smith has looked ok.  He did fall on the pick 6 but I don't think that really impacted that play. Watkins has looked very good and probably the best receiver. He's actually on pace for 1,000 yard season.  I think Reagor has improved and at least seems more confident.  

Dickerson looked bad at times but I think judging that pick based on one game with terrible game plan is harsh.  

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I made that same point last night right before halftime and got attacked for it. It’s hard to judge an offense when on third down goedert has two steps on the defender and where a ball should be thrown in front of him so he can catch it and run for an easy first down and get some nice YAC yards. Instead hurts throws it behind him, hitting the defender and the drive is stalled. That is an easy pitch and catch in the NFL. 

sirianni clearly needs to call more runs than just three. That’s ridiculous. It’s like when doug only called 6 runs with miles sanders in the seattle game last year. Sanders and gainwell need more touches especially with our oline crumbling right now. 

However that issue aside, if our QB can’t make ta simple pitch and catch throw to goedert on third down and has issues making the routine throws then our offense is destined to be bad whether we run sanders more or not. it is some of the same issues we had last year when people defended doug and Carson would miss routine and simple throws. the nfl will see on film hurts can’t make those throws routinely and then sell out to stop the run daring hurts to beat them with his arm. When the defenses make that adjustment they will struggle until hurts improves and becomes consistent in that aspect

Lol on that throw the defender seemed so surprised by how bad the pass was that he dropped it. 

11 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

That throw to Ward was incredibly dumb and I'm not so sure he didn't mean to sail that out the back of the EZ and just short armed it...then the CB decided to be nice and give the Make a Wish team a gift.

Yup.  Very bad decision.

1 minute ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Wow.  You may want to revisit this.

This is the NFL.  The first read will not always be available.  Even so, Hurts was still missing open first reads.  Or telegraphing the pass.

This offense clearly looks different than Doug's.  (Doug also struggled at play calling his first season.  Then won a SB.)

The QB situation is so different that it's hard to hone in on different offenses.  Wentz had ability to make every throw...except the right one.  He was inaccurate, turnover prone, and fought to sustain plays until something terrible would happen.  The corrective maneuver was to call an extremely conservative offense targeting TEs and possession WRs with underneath stuff to avoid costly mistakes and hero ball.

The offense with Hurts has been very bi-polar.  Week 1, get him comfortable with easy single read WR and RB screens at the LOS and a robust running game.  After that, find out what you have in him by trying to get him to be a real passer and push the ball downfield and deeper into his progressions.  That has proven to be an unmitigated disaster, so now they'll likely switch to an offense more closely resembling Doug Pederson's training wheels offense for Wentz, just with more designed QB runs.

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Reagor had a decent game?  In what way?  Please, I’d love to hear this.  

He had 5 catches on 8 targets.  I don't think I saw any egregious mistakes. 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

For all of this, Smith at least looks capable. He made one catch last night on a simple hook route, then was gang tackled by like 6 defenders and still kept moving. It was very impressive to me. He also appears to be able to get open, just completely handcuffed by Hurts. Frustrating. 

Yup, smiths " Drop" was a bad throw, it was behind him which gave diggs an opportunity to rake down on his arms, put it out in front of him and diggs can't get his hands on smith's arms.

There have been plays to be made but hurts isn't making them 

The pick six would have been a house call even if Smith doesn't fall down, hurts was staring him down and diggs was reading hurts eyes, just way to easy for the corner on that play.

I'm willing to give hurts another game or two and if no improvement I'd go to Minshew just for the sake of having a chance to better develop and evaluate my WRs.

At this point hurts is holding them back.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Reagor had a decent game?  In what way?  Please, I’d love to hear this.  

No illegal touching penalty...BOOM!

So...  have we arrived at the point where we're calling Jalen Hurts "so dysfunctional"?

I mean, I'm as concerned about him as most everyone else, but aren't we reaching the point of hyperbole when we say he's "so dysfunctional"...

Just for those with some sense of logic and reason left, might I suggest substituting "struggling" or "pressing" or any of a few lesser terms than "dysfunctional" for a guy who actually completed 64% of his passes?

I mean, c'mon....

 

I don't care to go back and watch the game, @justrelaxmight have some input here, but it seemed ol 69 struggled the most on combo and hand offs.  That boils down to communication, time in the system and reps

1 minute ago, Veejer said:

So...  have we arrived at the point where we're calling Jalen Hurts "so dysfunctional"?

I mean, I'm as concerned about him as most everyone else, but aren't we reaching the point of hyperbole when we say he's "so dysfunctional"...

Just for those with some sense of logic and reason left, might I suggest substituting "struggling" or "pressing" or any of a few lesser terms than "dysfunctional" for a guy who actually completed 64% of his passes?

I mean, c'mon....

 

Did you only look at the box score from last night?

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I made that same point last night right before halftime and got attacked for it. It’s hard to judge an offense when on third down goedert has two steps on the defender and where a ball should be thrown in front of him so he can catch it and run for an easy first down and get some nice YAC yards. Instead hurts throws it behind him, hitting the defender and the drive is stalled. That is an easy pitch and catch in the NFL. 

sirianni clearly needs to call more runs than just three. That’s ridiculous. It’s like when doug only called 6 runs with miles sanders in the seattle game last year. Sanders and gainwell need more touches especially with our oline crumbling right now. 

However that issue aside, if our QB can’t make ta simple pitch and catch throw to goedert on third down and has issues making the routine throws then our offense is destined to be bad whether we run sanders more or not. it is some of the same issues we had last year when people defended doug and Carson would miss routine and simple throws. the nfl will see on film hurts can’t make those throws routinely and then sell out to stop the run daring hurts to beat them with his arm. When the defenses make that adjustment they will struggle until hurts improves and becomes consistent in that aspect

Agreed.
 

The defense last night was loading the box and daring us to beat them with the pass. How many RPOs did we see last night? A ton. How many of them were handed off to the RB? Almost none. That tells me either A. the read makes it a pass play that hurts then couldn’t complete or B. Hurts read it wrong. 

6 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not necessarily.  If the pre-snap read is wrong, then the read you make first could be the wrong one.  

 

They could both be the wrong answer.  But, I think the jury on Hurts is getting ready to return a verdict pretty soon.  How he responds this week will be a big test.  Sirianni has a big test this week as well, but I think that the jury on him is still very much out.   

Then do what McVay did for Goff and get up to the line so early that he can be in Hurts' ear.  Also use MOTION for once as it is a good way to help with a pre-snap read.