1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Been saying this for months now. Just cause you want a QB once you build the team up doesn’t mean you are magically just going to get one cause you really really really want one. The Eagles wanted Zack Wilson. They tried to move up to get him. However they couldn’t move up high enough past the Jets to get Wilson. That same scenario could play itself out yet again in 2023 when they have the roster built up better if they wanted to just wait to do that route  

just because you want to get your quarterback at a specific period of time doesn’t mean you can acquire that QB at that time. If you are trading for one, first you have to have one that you feel is worthy of trading for. Might not be one of those on the market at that time. Secondly you have to have the draft capital and even some players to make the trade with the other team. Which you might not have all that in two or three years or another team has better assets then you and beats you out of a deal.

If you want to go to the draft routine, you either have to have a pick high enough to get the guy you truly covet. If you don’t then you need to trade up which isn’t a given cause of multiple factors. you have to have the draft capital to move up, you have to have a team willing to trade with you and move back to where you are picking and you potentially have to beat out other teams who are also trying to move up into that slot to get the same guy you want and potentially at that point in time have better package (talking after 2022). 

ideally you would want to build up the roster and then your quarterback comes in and is out in the best position to have success. However this they’re automatically going to get that quarterback once they build up the roster has flaws such as they might not be able to acquire that QB and then waste that roster until they do. It’s not an automatic given if you go that route you have the capital at that point to get one or you even get one at all or the one you get is even good. 

QB is the highest priority.  You add the QB when the QB is available.  You do not plan when to add the QB.  You do it when the opportunity presents itself and figure the rest out after that.   That said, if you don't have the right GM and HC in place with that QB... that QB is already doomed to failure, no matter how talented they are.

One thing to remember, we're not the Rams trading picks that will probably be in the 20s the next few years.

We'd be trading a pick(s) in the top 15, plus maybe next year's 1st which even with Watson will be in the top 20, and maybe the top 10.

So 1st rd picks are not equivalent.

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

 

Heres the flaw...

He's not a franchise QB. he's a very good QB, but he's not ELITE. 

I would pay 3first, and 3 players for a ELITE QB. 

He's a .500 QB with 1 playoff win on a team prior to this year gad a nice amount of talent on it. 

Theres a thought process that watson is in the same breath with Russ Wilson, Mahomes, Rodgers and it's not the case. 

You're looking at this all wrong. No one cares if Bacarty2 thinks Watson isn't elite. It's how Jeff & Howie view Watson that matter and if they think he's elite and can help them win, they'll make the move for him once all their homework is done on his legal situation.

14 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Oh 100% agree with that. Lurie think's he ishes gold covered roses. I have no doubt that he thinks all that. He is the epitome of the "this is fine" dog in a fire. 

You mean like almost every other owner in the NFL?

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Tyrod Taylor had a 84.6 QBR with the same Houston team before he was injured! 

Stafford is off to a great start, maybe talent makes the QB? He's as good as Watson.

Murray has steadily improved, I'd say he's caught up to Watson.

For those who like gaudy QB stats:  Cousins QB ratings since 2015:  101.6, 97.2, 93.9, 99.7, 107.4, 105.0, 4000+ yards five of those six seasons.

Guys who are playing as well as Watson the last couple years, Derek Carr (from the pits to the top ten), Tannehill, Garropollo (when healthy).

Watson has been in that 8-12 range for three seasons, top third but not elite. Like Stafford, put him on a talented team and he can win, put him on a bad team, well . . . 4-12.

Wow he had such a great Qbr against the worst team in football besides the Jets in the jags. What a Fing accomplishment. Ans it was a 74 in that game. And then having 11 passes before getting hurt in a game. Another great feat of 2 drives into a game makes for 4 quarters. It was the same team? So they didn’t have a coaching change. They didn’t add players in free agency. They didn’t add players in the draft. yup clearly the same team cause they currently don’t have a coach who it’s been reported this week was trying to get fired…. Yup same team 

Stafford playing with one of the best head coaches in the league who managed to make goff able to get to a super bowl. I am pretty sure if you put the Watson on the rams they also would be a Super Bowl contender and probably the favorite in the NFC.

I live out in Arizona. Murray did not play that well last week against the Jaguars. That game was a hell of a lot closer than it should’ve been because consistently every game Murray plays (if you actually watch him) there’s 3 to 4 plays where he just makes stupid decisions with the ball and turns it over. That’s exactly what happened and the Jaguars kept that game closed into the third quarter besides the 109 yard field goal return. It wasn’t until Lawrence threw a pick six that it became a blow out. And you think watson had average talent? Cardinals have Hopkins, Kirk, Moore and green as pass catchers. Also chase Edmonds and Connor are a good 1-2 running back combo. If watson is getting relegated due to talent around I’m then damn sure better do it with Murray 

if you are going to compare watson to cousins, carr and Jimmy G I’m done having the convo cause you obviously just look at statistics and not actually watching them play. Jimmy G has one of the best coaches in the league. Meanwhile cousins has never lead the Vikings or Washington to back to back 10+ win seasons. Jimmy G is nowhere near as talented as watson. 

I don't want to trade for Watson, because I don't want the risk of Watson.   The rest of it is irrelevant.  

 

Use this dumpster fire season to finally finish cleaning up the house, bring in a new GM, back Lurie out of the meeting rooms... and get it right.  Actually suffer a real bottoming out, by not pushing crap into the future, but take on the cap hit now and get out from under it.  $30+M in dead money for 2022 already.  It will grow.  But, the push to 2023 needs to STOP.  Then you can bring in some talent, not old talent, but actual talent and build a core.  There is no core to this team.  Are there even 2 players on each side of the ball under 26 years old that you can say definitely say, "yes, this is a guy we should make a foundational piece to build around."?  

Mailata on offense... the rest?  Nope.  None are foundational pieces.
Defensively... is there even one?

Might bet my house on Chiefs -6.5. This is going to be an ugly one.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't want to trade for Watson, because I don't want the risk of Watson.   The rest of it is irrelevant.  

 

Use this dumpster fire season to finally finish cleaning up the house, bring in a new GM, back Lurie out of the meeting rooms... and get it right.  Actually suffer a real bottoming out, by not pushing crap into the future, but take on the cap hit now and get out from under it.  $30+M in dead money for 2022 already.  It will grow.  But, the push to 2023 needs to STOP.  Then you can bring in some talent, not old talent, but actual talent and build a core.  There is no core to this team.  Are there even 2 players on each side of the ball under 26 years old that you can say definitely say, "yes, this is a guy we should make a foundational piece to build around."?  

Mailata on offense... the rest?  Nope.  None are foundational pieces.
Defensively... is there even one?

I don’t see why people look at Hargrave as a JAG. He’s having a DPOY type year. Baffles me.

6 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

I dont understand it.

Deshaun did "good" with an ok Roster, ok Front office and an OK coach

Now you guys think he's going to be great with an OK roster, Terrible front office and an OK coach, while selling numerous first picks while in cap hell. 

edit*** if the Eagles were... the 9ers, the steelers, Maybe the Vikings who have legit amount of talent, sure I'd think of mortgaging the future(numerous first rounders) to get him and win.

But the Eagles blow. lol. Getting Deshaun would putting lipstick on a pig

What? The Texans front office might be more dysfunctional than the Eagles front office. They traded Hopkins for a broken down RB and a 2nd rounder. 

And I would add it’s come out this week that Bill O’Brien wanted to get fired last year cause he wanted out. So he was actively trying to be bad enough to get himself fired.

4 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

You're looking at this all wrong. No one cares if Bacarty2 thinks Watson isn't elite. It's how Jeff & Howie view Watson that matter and if they think he's elite and can help them win, they'll make the move for him once all their homework is done on his legal situation.

You are likely right, and they will likely go after him.  😕  And Howie will find a way to be in 'win now' mode, because they have a QB in his prime, and will need to... 'borrow from the future' again because the window is immediately open.  But this team doesn't have pieces in place for a 'win now' mentality.  Lots of holes, lots of old players that are breaking down.

21 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Stafford is off to a great start, maybe talent makes the QB?

OMG, you are kidding right ??  You better go look at his QBR the other 12 years in the league.

Only over 70 once, Watson was over 70 3 of his 4 years.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm

Maybe your should go look at Detroit PPG and then come back and tell us how you just totally contradicted yourself.

@4for4EaglesNest

Edited to add @austinfan, Stafford scored less PPG the last 4 years than Watson, has been top 10 twice, and bottom 10 5 times.

This contradiction is so epic I can't even stand it.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't want to trade for Watson, because I don't want the risk of Watson.   The rest of it is irrelevant.  

 

Use this dumpster fire season to finally finish cleaning up the house, bring in a new GM, back Lurie out of the meeting rooms... and get it right.  Actually suffer a real bottoming out, by not pushing crap into the future, but take on the cap hit now and get out from under it.  $30+M in dead money for 2022 already.  It will grow.  But, the push to 2023 needs to STOP.  Then you can bring in some talent, not old talent, but actual talent and build a core.  There is no core to this team.  Are there even 2 players on each side of the ball under 26 years old that you can say definitely say, "yes, this is a guy we should make a foundational piece to build around."?  

Mailata on offense... the rest?  Nope.  None are foundational pieces.
Defensively... is there even one?

The entire thing needs to be rebuilt, no doubt about it. Will Jeff do the right thing and fire Howie, then step back and allow a new GM to tear it all down? I wouldn't bet on it with your money. And again, I'm not advocating for Watson, I'm not against it either, they're going to do whatever they want.

3 minutes ago, eaglesflyers#1 said:

I don’t see why people look at Hargrave as a JAG. He’s having a DPOY type year. Baffles me.

I don't see why you can't read what was written.  Is he under 26?  No, he's 28.  And when this team will be ready to compete and get out from under the cap hole, he'll be 30+.  He's not a foundation piece to build around moving forward.

Just now, Don Corleone said:

The entire thing needs to be rebuilt, no doubt about it. Will Jeff do the right thing and fire Howie, then step back and allow a new GM to tear it all down? I wouldn't bet on it with your money. And again, I'm not advocating for Watson, I'm not against it either, they're going to do whatever they want.

No doubt.  They always do.  Howie needs to go.

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

No doubt.  They always do.  Howie needs to go.

Last year, Jeff talked about making changes at head coach etc and referenced two teams that did that, but he also stopped short of mentioning they also fired their GM's, so, instead of letting Howie try to dig himself out of a hole that he created, the complete tear down and rebuild should've started last year.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

You are likely right, and they will likely go after him.  😕  And Howie will find a way to be in 'win now' mode, because they have a QB in his prime, and will need to... 'borrow from the future' again because the window is immediately open.  But this team doesn't have pieces in place for a 'win now' mentality.  Lots of holes, lots of old players that are breaking down.

Yup 

I think Howie trading for Watson would give he and Lurie justification for their continuing meddling.

The roster and cap as is are a mess, trading for Watson isn't going to all the sudden fix Howie's cap mess, if anything it'll make it worse, not will trading for Watson improve the roster enough to fix the rest of it, if anything it will keep the eagles from acquiring talent to build around 

Sure in luries and Howie's eyes they think  it buys them some time but for who for what?

8 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

The entire thing needs to be rebuilt, no doubt about it. Will Jeff do the right thing and fire Howie

 

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No doubt.  They always do.  Howie needs to go.

Yes, yes, yes, HOWIE NEEDS TO GO SHOULD BE ALL FANS RALLYING CRY.

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

OMG, you are kidding right ??  You better go look at his QBR the other 12 years in the league.

Only over 70 once, Watson was over 70 3 of his 4 years.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00.htm

Maybe your should go look at Detroit PPG and then come back and tell us how you just totally contradicted yourself.

@4for4EaglesNest

 he wants to say that about Stafford when mcvay had Goff and got to the super bowl. And they won an average of 10.8 games per season in those 4 years. Maybe mcvay is just a really good coach as Goff is 0-10 without him. And with Goff they still always struggled to beat the better teams in the league except for a fluke no call against the Saints. 

idk maybe not playing with a dysfunctional dumpster fire of an organization like the lions and a competent one like the Rams he finally didn’t have to be super man and perfect to win games. 

4 minutes ago, Don Corleone said:

Last year, Jeff talked about making changes at head coach etc and referenced two teams that did that, but he also stopped short of mentioning they also fired their GM's, so, instead of letting Howie try to dig himself out of a hole that he created, the complete tear down and rebuild should've started last year.

The rebuild really shouldve started at the end of the 2019 season. Heck they even said they were going to until the pandemic hit and then they did a 180 seeing 3 new head coaches in the division thinking they should go for it. Which just saying is completely dumb logic if you know you needed a rebuild before the pandemic and your team wasn’t really good enough besides to win a crap division and nothing else. 

36 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I think rodgers wants to be on the west coast tbh. That’s where all the teams he was rumored to want to go too. If carr wasn’t playing as well as he was i think it would be Denver or Vegas. If carr falters as the season progresses i believe Denver and Vegas will be in on that and that’s where he’d ask to be traded too.

side note: Hats off to Vegas. They have some pretty good weapons on that team besides Waller. Edwards seems to make big catches in big moments. Renfroe is a first down machine in the slot. Ruggs has really played much better this year as carr has given him more chances to make plays. Then you got Waller. 

If Denver does well this season, there is going to be a push to keep Bridgewater.  Aside from Denver, I don't think there's another Western NFL team that is going to need a QB.  I don't see him going to a team in the North.  It could be that he ends up in Miami.  The Giants and WFT are other possible landing spots.  I am not saying chances are good but I think the Eagles should make a push for him.  

10 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't see why you can't read what was written.  Is he under 26?  No, he's 28.  And when this team will be ready to compete and get out from under the cap hole, he'll be 30+.  He's not a foundation piece to build around moving forward.

It wasn’t directed at you, so probably shouldn’t have quoted you. Chill out. I was referring to the past few pages.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

 he wants to say that about Stafford when mcvay had Goff and got to the super bowl. And they won an average of 10.8 games per season in those 4 years. Maybe mcvay is just a really good coach as Goff is 0-10 without him. And with Goff they still always struggled to beat the better teams in the league except for a fluke no call against the Saints. 

idk maybe not playing with a dysfunctional dumpster fire of an organization like the lions and a competent one like the Rams he finally didn’t have to be super man and perfect to win games. 

Go look at my addition to that post.

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

If Denver does well this season, there is going to be a push to keep Bridgewater.  Aside from Denver, I don't think there's another Western NFL team that is going to need a QB.  I don't see him going to a team in the North.  It could be that he ends up in Miami.  The Giants and WFT are other possible landing spots.  I am not saying chances are good but I think the Eagles should make a push for him.  

I still think bridgewater was always meant to be a bridge to another QB whether rodgers or they draft another one. I dont think Denver believes they are capable of winning a super bowl with bridgewater. Either way i think when push comes to shove against better teams his limited ceiling will come into play.

I also think if carr regresses as the season continues on i could see the raiders being in on rodgers. I think the giants are a wild card in any QB discussions. They are going to have a top 6 pick and with how the bears offense looks could have two top 10 picks. 

Trading for Watson would be a disaster move. 

3 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

There's a few facts that I don't just like, but love.  

Fact:  You're a fan of like 5 teams.  

Fact: You owe me a ton of money.  

He’s known in these parts as bookie bacarty