56 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think there are a lot of fair criticism of Hurts’ play, but I think many are letting their bias (as in not liking his play style) or preconceived notions cloud how he played yesterday. I’m guilty of that as well. No doubt he missed some crucial throws, and his pocket awareness was bad, but overall it was a promising outing.

He looked much better than against Dallas, where he basically sabotaged the team. Those handful of bad plays separate average and bad quarterbacks from the good ones, so it’s not an excuse. I think people need a little more patience. 

I got that impression while reading through the thread yesterday. Im sure he missed throws, and didnt see open guys. But the statistical day he had, and the TD throws he did make that got negated by dumb penalties other people made.... there may have been some nit picking going on. 

1 starter on the OL, this is the kind of game most of us would have excused Wentz for a little bit if he had a complete clunker. Hurts did the opposite and had a huge day passing. And still mostly got bashed.

1 hour ago, Bacarty2 said:

You can understand that this team is awful and losing today is better for "tomorrow"

Sorry to be a second, third level thinker and understanding how the NFL works

A win yesterday ONLY HURT THE FRANCHISE. Sometimes losing is good. 

If you cant see that I cant help you. 

But have fun in 6-11 purgatory so yOU gET tO SeE yOUR TeAm WiN a MEanInglESS ReGUlaR SeAson GaME 

Nice loser mentality.

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Yea, but in the RPO, isn't the read based on the running lane for the RB rather than knowing if someone is open or not?  I'm under the impression that if he takes the ball out of the RB stomach then he doesn't see a hole for them to run through and the better option is for him to either A. throw to an open WR or B. run it himself.

Is my thinking wrong here?

Either way, you're right.  They have to fix it.  If he can't learn how to do it then you scrap it.  The penalties are drive killers.   

My understanding is that the LBs are the read. If they come up to play the run, theoretically, there should be space behind them in a vacated zone (where you'd ideally have a slant route called or a TE outlet). If the LBs play pass and stay back, you hand it off to the RB. 

52 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Cox is typical of DTs in their 30s, they lose that explosive first step and if they're smaller, on the way out of the league, if they're larger, become more run stoppers.

Cox may be pulling an Embiid. When the 6ers traded Jimmy Butler, and let Reddick go in free agency Joel got depressed, admitted that he questioned his desire to keep playing and mostly moped through an uninspiring season. 

Cox already admitted to being very down about losing Graham out there.

2 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

I got that impression while reading through the thread yesterday. Im sure he missed throws, and didnt see open guys. But the statistical day he had, and the TD throws he did make that got negated by dumb penalties other people made.... there may have been some nit picking going on. 

1 starter on the OL, this is the kind of game most of us would have excused Wentz for a little bit if he had a complete clunker. Hurts did the opposite and had a huge day passing. And still mostly got bashed.

Hurts can definitely put up stats. It's the dumb mistakes he makes that are killing my hope in him. The repeated RPO penalties, AGAIN this week on flood play, he has a guy wide open underneath, but tries to force a throw to the deeper option who is covered/has a much more difficult play to make. The red zone mistakes. It feels like mentally he is deficient, and I don't know if he can overcome it. I'm in no rush to get rid him, yet. 

38 minutes ago, austinfan said:

While Barnett has made a lot of bone head plays, I'm not sure this was one of them, he seemed to have been blocked into the QB.

Gannon doesn't have much to work with, and I think at some point he's just going to play kids over some mediocre veterans. His soft defense reflects that his two best players are DTs (and DE before Graham got hurt), his safeties lack speed and his CBs are decent, but not good enough to be left on an island against top WRs. And Taylor is probably the only LB with the athleticism for matchups. Wilson is a disappointment, we knew he was a liability against the run, but he was supposed to be good in coverage.

But this is what rebuilding is all about, losing Graham early hurts, b/c you hope to work in guys like Williams, Jackson, etc. over the season.

Kerrigan may be cooked, but I also think he's just not a 3 point DE, you'd be better using him as a stand up pass rusher.

However, after 4 games, Eagles are 19th in rushing YPA, though 31 in rushing yards allowed. 14th in net yards per pass. 28th in 1st downs allowed. 10th in yards allowed per play.

So the defense is working in that they're forcing teams into long drives, they just not stopping those drives - and that's where the lack of playmakers in the back seven is glaring, 2 turnovers in 4 games won't get the job done.

 

I actually agree with you!

15 hours ago, bpac55 said:

Some positives from the game.

- Reagor looked good as a kick returner and gadget player.  I liked what I saw of him on the jet sweep.  Still not worthy of the pick but if they can figure out how to use him that would be huge.

- Smith is the real deal.  He made the same stupid mistake that Reagor made by stepping out of bounds but I didn't see people harping on him the way they did Reagor.  Both were bonehead plays that discredited great throws by Hurts.

- Gainwell is slippery.  I'd be looking to mismatch him as much as possible.

- One of the best games from our tight ends in some time.  DG should have had 2 TD's and Ertz should have as well had Hurts hit him and he held on to the other.   Overall they looked strong.

- The OL, thrown together at game time for the most part played a solid game.  Not good or great, 3 penalties on Dillard was not good but given the circumstances, we can't be too mad.

- Watkins didn't have huge numbers but still looked fast and great RAC.  I'm still baffled how that wasn't a penalty when the DB basically threw him out of the end zone mid route. 

- Hargrave is playing like a man possessed.   Hear me out, trade deadline candidate?  HIs prime is going to be wasted on a team with no direction or young talent.  

- Josh Sweat looked disruptive again even though his sack was wiped out.  I thought the neutral zone call was VERY close.  He got a great jump on the ball and the only angle they showed wasn't even down the LOS.  

 

On the other hand.  We need to put Fletcher Cox and Ryan Kerrigan on milk cartons.  

Yes about Hargrave, I brought it up twice already. I'm unsure what I would want however. 
https://overthecap.com/player/javon-hargrave/4802/

4 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Neither Barnett nor Sweat are really what I want out of a DE.   They both committed unacceptable penalties, Barnett just does it regularly

Im done with Barnett but Sweat at least has some upside.  Id love for them to find a big time player on the DL next draft

 

Edit: both of them need to permanently retire their stupid spin moves like yesterday

They need to find multiple DE.

-Barnett should be gone.

-Sweat, at around 45% of the snaps is pretty close to his play limit.  He's a rotational player making decent coin now.  He needs to produce.

-Milton Williams is not a DE.  I hate the hybrid use of him.  He's built to dominate the interior O-Line.  He could be Aaron Donald lite if he's used right.  You need to put him next to Hargrave and let him use his ridiculous athleticism against C/G.  He's not fast enough nor does he have enough length to win the edge.  I hate how they are using him.

- Kerrigan won't be here and shouldn't be here next week.

-Jackson is an effort guy right now.  He's going to be a DE4/5 his entire career.

-BG, we all love him.  He's going to be 34 coming off an Achilles injury. How much can we really expect next year.

 

As of now, your 2022 DE are BG, Sweat and Jackson.  None of them should be starting next year.  None of them really are huge threats.

Look at the rest of the NFCE.

Cowboys have Lawrence, Gregory (making plays) and Parsons.

Redskins have Young and Sweat.

Giants have Azeez Ojulari, who is a LB but already has 3 sacks and a forced fumble.  NYG know how to acquire pass rushers. 

It's just another position that we've been told year after year the Eagles are loaded at when the fact of the matter is the cupboard is nearly empty.

5 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Cox already admitted to being very down about losing Graham out there.

Players aren't robots.

2 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Giving up a pawn to capture the queen. stop thinking for tomorrow and think of 3 years from now

Tanking in football doesn't work like it does in basketball or baseball.

The players put themselves through a beating every Sunday, recover for a couple days, then start the process over again.  They aren't taking BP, shagging flies, or practicing free throws during the week, either.

It's not acceptable to ask them to compete if they feel that the FO doesn't want to win.

5 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

My understanding is that the LBs are the read. If they come up to play the run, theoretically, there should be space behind them in a vacated zone (where you'd ideally have a slant route called or a TE outlet). If the LBs play pass and stay back, you hand it off to the RB. 

So it's gotta be a bam bam play.  Pull and throw.  Hurts is such a 1 read quarterback you'd think this would be his bread and butter, unless the first read in the RPO isn't the obvious target.  

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The one thing that's become obvious is that it's time to draft defensive players, with 3 WRs, 2 TEs, depth on the OL, the offense is more a matter of jelling than talent at this point. Even if Ertz leaves, Stoll and Jackson should be able to step in and at some point they can pick up a big WR to fill his role (JJAW is probably as good a blocker as Ertz at this point).

They've used those draft picks to trade for some bad defensive players too.   3rd round pick for Darby?  We got a Super Bowl out of it, but I think that it was coincidental and in no way really related to the SB.  3rd and 5th for Slay, plus a big contract as he was about to hit the magic 30 plateau.  Flipped 3rd round picks to bring in Jernigan, that did have a big impact on the SB team.  Shame he got hurt, that was a nice move.  

 

But, ultimately, they were forced into adding more offensive pieces after adding offensive pieces due to bad picks.  They selected JJAW in Round 2 of 2019.  That was a blown pick, leading them to focus on WR again in 2020.  And they selected Reagor, over Jefferson.     And that was a mistake, so then they went back to the WR well again in 2021 and selected DaVonta Smith.   Maybe if they had gotten either of the WR picks right in 2019 or 2020 they could have been less focused on WR for the later drafts.   Seems that the bad picks of the past caused them to saturation draft at WR...   (And we forget about Agholor in 2015.  That set the wheels in motion on this WR issue, because he could never get his act together outside, only in the slot and really only for that brief window.) 

 

If they pick McLaurin or even Slayton in 2019, maybe they bypass WR in 2020... and go defense there.  Leaving them to still get Smith in 2021.

If they pick defense in 2019, because they were about to extend (rather than replace) Jeffery, they can focus on defense there instead, and get the right WR in 2020 (Jefferson).  

Then they can bypass Smith and focus on defense in 2021.   Seems all these picks being forced at the same position is a byproduct of bad drafting.

 

Conclusion:  This team is bad at drafting, but especially bad at drafting WRs.  

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Hurts can definitely put up stats. It's the dumb mistakes he makes that are killing my hope in him. The repeated RPO penalties, AGAIN this week on flood play, he has a guy wide open underneath, but tries to force a throw to the deeper option who is covered/has a much more difficult play to make. The red zone mistakes. It feels like mentally he is deficient, and I don't know if he can overcome it. I'm in no rush to get rid him, yet. 

The RPO crap is baffling. That a professional QB can lack that basic level of understanding of the game to not realize scramblign around on those plays is NOT an option. 

When Doug simplified the offense to make Foles successful, it was through the addition of RPOs. Its a simple play. Its a 1 read throw. How can you have trouble with that? How can it possibly get any simpler?

I agree. I am not a Jalen fan. I think we have at least 1 more in this season already with a better QB in there. I want Minshew to play. I just got done typing that I want to see him for half the season almost regardless of Hurts' performance bad OR good. 

 

Just now, bpac55 said:

So it's gotta be a bam bam play.  Pull and throw.  Hurts is such a 1 read quarterback you'd think this would be his bread and butter, unless the first read in the RPO isn't the obvious target.  

Yes that's my understanding. And thinking back to when Foles ran it, it was exactly that. 

5 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Yea, but in the RPO, isn't the read based on the running lane for the RB rather than knowing if someone is open or not?  I'm under the impression that if he takes the ball out of the RB stomach then he doesn't see a hole for them to run through and the better option is for him to either A. throw to an open WR or B. run it himself.

Is my thinking wrong here?

Either way, you're right.  They have to fix it.  If he can't learn how to do it then you scrap it.  The penalties are drive killers.   

 

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

My understanding is that the LBs are the read. If they come up to play the run, theoretically, there should be space behind them in a vacated zone (where you'd ideally have a slant route called or a TE outlet). If the LBs play pass and stay back, you hand it off to the RB. 

You both are right, the big difference is in college the ineligible receiver gets 3 yards before they are called for ineligible, in the NFL, it’s only one yard. It’s on the QB to get rid of it quickly like Foles who was better than Hurts and Wentz at reading the middle linebacker.  Go back to 2017 when the Eagles ran a ton of RPO, Kelce is way past the one yard cushion on several plays, but now it’s getting called.  Those penalties yesterday and last week are on the QB, not Dillard.

14 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Yea, but in the RPO, isn't the read based on the running lane for the RB rather than knowing if someone is open or not?  I'm under the impression that if he takes the ball out of the RB stomach then he doesn't see a hole for them to run through and the better option is for him to either A. throw to an open WR or B. run it himself.

Is my thinking wrong here?

Either way, you're right.  They have to fix it.  If he can't learn how to do it then you scrap it.  The penalties are drive killers.   

No.  It is about the run (running back) or pass (WR/TE).  The QB running isn't really an option on that play, but can be.  

 

You are conflating the read option, with the run/pass option.  Read option, the QB reads the edge player (most frequently) and gives or keeps depending on how aggressively that player flattens out on the RB.  In the RPO, the QB is usually reading the LB or a S (if in the box), and if that player plays run, the QB throws to the area that player vacated.  If the player plays the pass, the QB gives it to the RB to hit the place vacated by that player.   If the QB does neither, he has to run it himself, because the OL are run blocking.

Hurts doesn't see the field well yet, running RPO's with him is a terrible idea.  He's also positioning himself terribly at the mesh as well, he's not putting himself in a position to pop and fire.  I swear the kid is blind sometimes.

4 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Giving up a pawn to capture the queen. stop thinking for tomorrow and think of 3 years from now

This is not chess this is football. The only thing that you have to think about 3 years out is contracts. Other then that everything is malleable. However, being a loser franchise is very hard to shake. How long did it take for the Browns to become relevant? How many high picks has helped the Detroit Lions?

Football is all about psychology, especially when most things are equal. That is why momentum plays such a large factor in football games. You want a team to consistently go out there and push hard and win, win win every single game. You want them to build that winner's mentality because that is how they fight later on. Once you get a losers stigma, it is very hard to remove that stink.

1 hour ago, Godfather said:

I'm curious if the Eagles finally move on from Barnett and Ertz come the deadline. Try and save whatever $ they can

 

@downundermike what would the savings be?

No cap savings for either.  They have void years, so if they are traded, the future cap hits accelerate to this year.  Doesn't really matter though, either way their money either counts against this and next years cap, or all against this year, and we are looking at 2021 cap space as rollover into 2022.

 

3 hours ago, greend said:

@LeanMeanGM

Carolina 36 - Philly 21

 

BTW who's been winning this?

Week 1: dawkballhawk: 31-10

Week 2: Bwestbrook36: 13-17

Week 3: Casey @ Bat: 21-38

Week 4: Iggles25: 24-45

I've been announcing them post game but will probably do the morning after going forward. Gets lost in the X player sucks, fire X posts. 

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Sweat is a rotation DE who's best used on passing downs. Which is fine, if used correctly he could be a double digit sack guy, but he'll never be a top DE.

I always thought Eagle fans underrated Graham b/c he wasn't a double digit sack guy, now you know why a lot of sack guys are overrated, playing disciplined run defense is almost a lost art.

Then his extension was too big.  You don't pay rotational DEs that kind of money.  If he's a passing down player only, then he gets paid like one.  They paid him like he could be effective against the pass and the run.   Graham was worth his money, because he was an every down DE.  If Sweat is not, then he's a liability at that price.

 

What a turd of a contract extension that is.

 

Way to kick the can, Howie!

4 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

No.  It is about the run (running back) or pass (WR/TE).  The QB running isn't really an option on that play, but can be.  

 

You are conflating the read option, with the run/pass option.  Read option, the QB reads the edge player (most frequently) and gives or keeps depending on how aggressively that player flattens out on the RB.  In the RPO, the QB is usually reading the LB or a S (if in the box), and if that player plays run, the QB throws to the area that player vacated.  If the player plays the pass, the QB gives it to the RB to hit the place vacated by that player.   If the QB does neither, he has to run it himself, because the OL are run blocking.

Ahhhh yes, thank you.  

41 minutes ago, greend said:

Maybe so at the end of the day, it just doesn't matter. Other than it might get tiring after a while.

That isn't true actually 1 was debatably his fault

Which one?  The Smith throw?  

Just now, Bacarty2 said:

I didnt say the players shouldnt compete nor should the coaches give up

We need to know what we have here also. 

but losing is a good thing right now

Yeah...I remember hearing that after we lost to the Dolphins in 2019.  It was imperative that we improve our draft position.

But like idiots, we went on to win four straight and make the playoffs.  It really sucked and the city hated the entire experience.

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Then his extension was too big.  You don't pay rotational DEs that kind of money.  If he's a passing down player only, then he gets paid like one.  They paid him like he could be effective against the pass and the run.   Graham was worth his money, because he was an every down DE.  If Sweat is not, then he's a liability at that price.

 

What a turd of a contract extension that is.

 

Way to kick the can, Howie!

Josh Sweat was very disruptive yesterday. Had a sack taken off the board by a phantom penalty. Other than the SF game where they wanted more beef to stop the run, he's been very good in 3/4 games. 

This is a good contract.