2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

So,  with that goal in mind,  is it all eggs in the Hurts development basket? Or should the plan be half of the season Hurts, and half of the season Minshew to get a good comparison of both of them?

Theoretically yes but thats where lurie politics come into play 

36 minutes ago, justrelax said:

I'm with you here. What I want to see is improvement, whether it translates to victories or not. I saw that yesterday on offense, though not on defense. There we have a long way to go. I'm willing to burn a high draft pick on a QB if Hurts doesn't work out but not more than one. I want to see some LBs and a S or two, for which we have a desperate need.

I couldn't care less about play in the PS.

This is exactly where I'm at as well. But, I'd rather not go after a QB this draft. I think building up the rest of the roster first, considering how bereft of talent we are on defense, is the astute way to go. 

Hurts throwing to his first read 95% of the time really limits the offense. He's not allowing plays to develop and and let guys get open down the field. It's one of the reasons the red zone offense has been so bad, there was one play when Hurts through a screen to his first read despite it having no chance of getting any yards. The offense is handcuffed with Hurts in there, and it doesn't allow for the other skilled players to have opportunities.

21 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I want to push back on anyone saying that the OL is a mess.   The OL played pretty well yesterday.  They were not a 'mess', by any standard.  They had some bad plays, but by and large they were really, really good.  

I'm not an expert on O-line play at all, but it seemed to me that they played very well when you consider the last minute shuffling as well. The best thing to come out of the last 2 weeks has been discovering that Dillard is a NFL quality LT. 

39 minutes ago, RLC said:

Easily the best part of Sirianni so far.

Someone help an old guy out... WTF is Nuetral Pass rate? 

1 minute ago, TorontoEagle said:

This is exactly where I'm at as well. But, I'd rather not go after a QB this draft. I think building up the rest of the roster first, considering how bereft of talent we are on defense, is the astute way to go. 

DE, DT and maybe a CB. I want all 3 firsts to be on defense. Our depth at DE for the long-term is brutal. I want Barnett gone (you just can't win with players that undisciplined), BG is old and injured, and there is nothing else beyond Sweat. 

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

I'm not an expert on O-line play at all, but it seemed to me that they played very well when you consider the last minute shuffling as well. The best thing to come out of the last 2 weeks has been discovering that Dillard is a NFL quality LT. 

He had too many penalties yesterday but yeah he’s definitely quality and hasn’t seemed to be a liability. As long as he is in it mentally I think he could have a solid 8-10 year career. 

3 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I think there are a lot of fair criticism of Hurts’ play, but I think many are letting their bias (as in not liking his play style) or preconceived notions cloud how he played yesterday. I’m guilty of that as well. No doubt he missed some crucial throws, and his pocket awareness was bad, but overall it was a promising outing.

He looked much better than against Dallas, where he basically sabotaged the team. Those handful of bad plays separate average and bad quarterbacks from the good ones, so it’s not an excuse. I think people need a little more patience. 

I think Sirianni did a better job giving him clearer options.  It was an improved performance against a worse defense.  It was statistically better than it looked during the game.  He had bad misses and decisions. He showed his limitations as well.  Hurts looked like a decent back up but not a decent starter.  I think there's still a range of outcomes for him. The question is whether he could develop into a QB like Dak.  Dak's arm is lacking but he makes up for it with execution and OK accuracy.   I actually think his performance was better than I initially thought because I was so jaded by his terrible outing in Dallas.  I do think he has physical limitations that show up in every game.  

1 minute ago, Krump said:

Hurts throwing to his first read 95% of the time really limits the offense. He's not allowing plays to develop and and let guys get open down the field. It's one of the reasons the red zone offense has been so bad, there was one play when Hurts through a screen to his first read despite it having no chance of getting any yards. The offense is handcuffed with Hurts in there, and it doesn't allow for the other skilled players to have opportunities.

Screen passes of necessity have to get out quick. Otherwise you have OL downfield and it's a penalty. Not only that but you're going to get your QB killed, because the guys who are normally blocking to protect him are out blocking for the receiver.

1 minute ago, vikas83 said:

DE, DT and maybe a CB. I want all 3 firsts to be on defense. Our depth at DE for the long-term is brutal. I want Barnett gone (you just can't win with players that undisciplined), BG is old and injured, and there is nothing else beyond Sweat. 

I think Milton Williams may be playing more DE and I think he has played OK. 

20 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

kids a flop. completely spoiled with riches in Clemson while facing a TERRIBLE ACC. 

 

What?? He has limited talent around him and a terrible head coach. Calling Lawrence a flop 4 games in is up there in ignorant posts. 

Just now, EaglePhan1986 said:

He had too many penalties yesterday but yeah he’s definitely quality and hasn’t seemed to be a liability. As long as he is in it mentally I think he could have a solid 8-10 year career. 

I remember one holding penalty, then some illegal downfield and maybe a formation penalty. The ineligible downfield is more on Hurts, IMO. The others...well, this is his first game experience in a long time. 

I was honestly disturbed by the comment on the broadcast that NS doesn't pull players in practice for a rep when they commit a penalty. I get wanting to be new and innovative, and that reps matter, but there's a reason coaches have done it that way for decades. 

2 minutes ago, EaglePhan1986 said:

He had too many penalties yesterday but yeah he’s definitely quality and hasn’t seemed to be a liability. As long as he is in it mentally I think he could have a solid 8-10 year career. 

Th holding penalty on him was totally bogus. His block was textbook.

3 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Someone help an old guy out... WTF is Nuetral Pass rate? 

Basically, throwing on first and second downs when you don't have to.

They ignore 2-minute drill and comeback situations late in games.

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

I think Milton Williams may be playing more DE and I think he has played OK. 

I really like him better as a DT, but maybe he could be a DE on 1st and 2nd and then slide inside on passing downs. 

4 minutes ago, Krump said:

Hurts throwing to his first read 95% of the time really limits the offense. He's not allowing plays to develop and and let guys get open down the field. It's one of the reasons the red zone offense has been so bad, there was one play when Hurts through a screen to his first read despite it having no chance of getting any yards. The offense is handcuffed with Hurts in there, and it doesn't allow for the other skilled players to have opportunities.

There were 2 throws as well, that while perhaps catchable, lacked the finesse required to insure the completion. Eagles fans have seen this before. He's still surfing my expectations though. The man has got some skills.

13 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Someone help an old guy out... WTF is Nuetral Pass rate? 

When the win probability is between a certain percentage (I think 25% to 75%) and not in two minute warning.

1 minute ago, justrelax said:

Th holding penalty on him was totally bogus. His block was textbook.

Yup.  One of those that is a result of a scramble and doesn't get called if the QB stays in the pocket.

Just now, Connecticut Eagle said:

Basically, throwing on first and second downs when you don't have to.

They ignore 2-minute drill and comeback situations late in games.

Thank you.

SO-- in other words by ignoring the run game, he throws alot. 

OK....  LOL

5 minutes ago, Krump said:

Hurts throwing to his first read 95% of the time really limits the offense. He's not allowing plays to develop and and let guys get open down the field. It's one of the reasons the red zone offense has been so bad, there was one play when Hurts through a screen to his first read despite it having no chance of getting any yards. The offense is handcuffed with Hurts in there, and it doesn't allow for the other skilled players to have opportunities.

No, throwing the first read isn't the problem.  The best QB's in the League are throwing to their first read.  Time to throw should be less than 3 seconds.  Efficient offenses don't really let plays develop.  It's a misapprehension to think otherwise.  The best QB's approach the line knowing what the best read is and most often don't go to the 2nd or 3rd read. Pre-snap reads and timely execution are his weakness.  We keep complaining about only making one read.  The real issues is that his first read is often not the the best read or he just is delayed in making that first read decision.  

3 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I really like him better as a DT, but maybe he could be a DE on 1st and 2nd and then slide inside on passing downs. 

I think he's playing more DE than DT but I could be wrong.  

2 minutes ago, macgregor said:

There were 2 throws as well, that while perhaps catchable, lacked the finesse required to insure the completion. Eagles fans have seen this before. He's still surfing my expectations though. The man has got some skills.

The throw to Ward in the end zone was just brutal. Wide open and he throws a fastball high and outside. You can't put that on Ward -- Hurts needs to hit that 10/10 times.

4 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Screen passes of necessity have to get out quick. Otherwise you have OL downfield and it's a penalty. Not only that but you're going to get your QB killed, because the guys who are normally blocking to protect him are out blocking for the receiver.

They've had at least three or four illegal lineman down field penalties in the three games I watched. I thought that screen pass when they were at around the five yard line was a bad call to begin with. They threw it to the short side of the field. The only screen passes I like down by the goal line are the ones that Andy Reid runs, the screens and shuffle passes to the tight end.

3 minutes ago, Krump said:

They've had at least three or four illegal lineman down field penalties in the three games I watched. I thought that screen pass when they were at around the five yard line was a bad call to begin with. They threw it to the short side of the field. The only screen passes I like down by the goal line are the ones that Andy Reid runs, the screens and shuffle passes to the tight end.

The illegal men downfield penalties are because Hurts is slow making the decision.  

What the hell happened with Lane Johnson?

Does anyone know??

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

No, throwing the first read isn't the problem.  The best QB's in the League are throwing to their first read.  Time to throw should be less than 3 seconds.  Efficient offenses don't really let plays develop.  It's a misapprehension to think otherwise.  The best QB's approach the line knowing what the best read is and most often don't go to the 2nd or 3rd read. Pre-snap reads and timely execution are his weakness.  We keep complaining about only making one read.  The real issues is that his first read is often not the the best read or he just is delayed in making that first read decision.  

I think he's playing more DE than DT but I could be wrong.  

Those QB"s are making presnap reads and adjusting to the defense. Hurts isn't capable of that right now. He's throwing to his first read regardless of the coverage and situation.