The Eagles have the biggest problem a franchise can have-a clueless owner

[toolg]

3 minutes ago, Road to Victory said:

Dawk played 3 more seasons and made the Pro Bowl in 2 of them. Sure, he was at the end of his career but just like the Yankees let Jeter finish out his career, the Eagles should’ve resigned Dawk. 

As for Brady, he played for the Pats well into his 40’s and it looks like they made a mistake by letting him go. 

Peyton Manning played for the Broncos. Jerry Rice left the 49ers, went to Oakland. Joe Montana went to the Chiefs. Aaron Rodgers could leave the Packers after this season...

Frustrating as it was, I don't think the Eagles fell apart at the end of Banner/Reid's tenure solely because Dawk left. Banner might still be here (if not retired), instead he became invested in the Browns.

[flyerdog]

39 minutes ago, toolg said:

C'mon. I'd love to have seen Dawk in Eagle green to the very end, but he was in the twilight of his career. How many times does this happen? Tom Brady isn't even on the Patriots anymore.

I agree Howie needs someone that understands talent and personnel. And somebody that can work with him. I think that's where he falls short; nobody seems to be able to work alongside him.

and who could? he yields such power and is besties with the owner...what person would dare challenge him? they would end up fired

[Road to Victory]

1 hour ago, toolg said:

Peyton Manning played for the Broncos. Jerry Rice left the 49ers, went to Oakland. Joe Montana went to the Chiefs. Aaron Rodgers could leave the Packers after this season...

Frustrating as it was, I don't think the Eagles fell apart at the end of Banner/Reid's tenure solely because Dawk left. Banner might still be here (if not retired), instead he became invested in the Browns.

A lot of those guys were replaced. Manning was replaced by Luck. Rice was replaced by TO. Montana replaced by Young. We had no replacement for Dawk. 
 

[SB52]

On 11/1/2021 at 3:57 PM, toolg said:

Frustrating as it was, I don't think the Eagles fell apart at the end of Banner/Reid's tenure solely because Dawk left. Banner might still be here (if not retired), instead he became invested in the Browns.

Banner and Mike Lombardi were fired because they traded Trent Richardson and Josh Gordon. The owner sided with reporters and the public.

(EDIT: JOSH GORDON WASN’T ACTUALLY TRADED. THE DEAL WAS BEING FINALIZED AND JIMMY HASLAM VETOED IT. THAT OFFSEASON LOMBARDI (after 1 season) AND BANNER WERE FIRED.)

That’s got to be tough.

Did the Super Bowl change Lurie from good to terrible or was his meddling hidden beforehand?

[toolg]

3 hours ago, SB52 said:

Did the Super Bowl change Lurie from good to terrible or was his meddling hidden beforehand?

Yes. You didn’t hear anything about Lurie interfering in team affairs during the Reid years, or even when Chip Kelly was around. I guess it was after Kelly gutted the team. Fwiw Lurie never really seemed to trust Pederson. 

[proveagle]

Lurie is a fine owner and better than many in the league.  Look at the terrible teams year after year and you can find the bad owners.  Has everyone forgotten Norman Braman?

[NYEagle]

I think Lurie has a blind spot when it comes to Howie and that is his biggest fault.  Over the past 20 years, the Eagles have the 7th most regular season wins, the 6th most playoff wins, 2 Super Bowl appearances with one Lombardi.  Lurie needs to see that Roseman is an issue but to say he is a clueless owner?  We could do a hell of a lot worse.

[flyerdog]

A malignant narcissist is a term used to describe a person who has symptoms of both narcissistic personality disorder and antisocial personality disorder. Combined, these disorders can show up as arrogance, a need for power and recognition, and tendencies to use or exploit others for selfish reasons.

sound like anyone?

[ManchesterEagle]

17 hours ago, proveagle said:

Lurie is a fine owner and better than many in the league.  Look at the terrible teams year after year and you can find the bad owners.  Has everyone forgotten Norman Braman?

Honestly rubbish thread. Since Lurie has taken over, over the past 27 years we have been to the playoffs 13 times, won the division 9 times, been to 6 NFCCG, 2 Superbowls (including winning our first and only Super Bowl).

Now I don't know if there is any merit to these reports that he is interfering too much. If there is, then yes he needs to back off somewhat. But he's been a great owner for this team and there are a lot of really ungrateful fans out there. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

Just now, ManchesterEagle said:

Now I don't know if there is any merit to these reports that he is interfering too much. If there is, then yes he needs to back off somewhat. But he's been a great owner for this team and there are a lot of really ungrateful fans out there. 

I think the issue is in recent times he's not done a good job. After the SB win, when they had a relatively young and promising roster, it has been downhill. 

I agree his track record is very good. But his faith in Howie is going to hurt this team and I don't think the reports of him interfering can be ignored. 

[wyote]

On 11/3/2021 at 5:58 AM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

 After the SB win... they had a relatively young and promising roster

Almost every significant contributor was old. 

Young - Wentz, Clement, Ajayi, Agholor, Elliot, Barnett, Jernigan, Hicks, Darby. The fans hated about half of those guys too. 

The heart of the roster -- Blount, Jeffery, JP, Brooks, Kelce, Lane Johnson, Ertz, Long, Cox, Jenkins -- was ancient or nearly there.  

[UK_EaglesFan89]

3 hours ago, wyote said:

The heart of the roster -- Blount, Jeffery, JP, Brooks, Kelce, Lane Johnson, Ertz, Long, Cox, Jenkins -- was ancient or nearly there.  

The SB victory was nearly 4 years ago. At the time Ertz, Johnson, Cox, Brooks and Jenkins were far from ancient. In fact I don't think Jeffrey was either and Kelce was hardly an old man. 

[wyote]

1 hour ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

The SB victory was nearly 4 years ago. At the time Ertz, Johnson, Cox, Brooks and Jenkins were far from ancient. In fact I don't think Jeffrey was either and Kelce was hardly an old man. 

They weren't young. Most of them should've been replaced by now. 

[ManchesterEagle]

On 11/2/2021 at 8:58 PM, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

I think the issue is in recent times he's not done a good job. After the SB win, when they had a relatively young and promising roster, it has been downhill. 

I agree his track record is very good. But his faith in Howie is going to hurt this team and I don't think the reports of him interfering can be ignored. 

 

5 hours ago, wyote said:

Almost every significant contributor was old. 

Young - Wentz, Clement, Ajayi, Agholor, Elliot, Barnett, Jernigan, Hicks, Darby. The fans hated about half of those guys too. 

The heart of the roster -- Blount, Jeffery, JP, Brooks, Kelce, Lane Johnson, Ertz, Long, Cox, Jenkins -- was ancient or nearly there.  

I take a balanced view. A lot of those guys you mention as old were pretty much in their primes. Lurie clearly saw an opportunity to "win now” by locking up the core of the team and bringing in some vets. I had no major issue with this.

The team has been decimated by injuries in the last 3 years (and to be honest they were in the Super Bowl year). Despite that, we probably would have beaten the Saints and made it back to the championship game if Brooks hadn’t of got hurt and/or that pass hadn’t of bounced off Alshon hands.
 

No obviously there were still some clearly bad moves by Lurie/Roseman. Some of it was bad luck though and they didn’t mortgage the future like the Rams.

 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

2 hours ago, wyote said:

They weren't young. Most of them should've been replaced by now. 

Over time yes they did need replacing. That goes without saying. What I'm getting at is that after the SB victory this team was in a very very good position to build on that and be a contender for a number of years. That failed mostly because Howie is a bad GM.

[wyote]

9 hours ago, ManchesterEagle said:

 

I take a balanced view. A lot of those guys you mention as old were pretty much in their primes. Lurie clearly saw an opportunity to "win now” by locking up the core of the team and bringing in some vets. I had no major issue with this.

The team has been decimated by injuries in the last 3 years (and to be honest they were in the Super Bowl year). Despite that, we probably would have beaten the Saints and made it back to the championship game if Brooks hadn’t of got hurt and/or that pass hadn’t of bounced off Alshon hands.
 

No obviously there were still some clearly bad moves by Lurie/Roseman. Some of it was bad luck though and they didn’t mortgage the future like the Rams.

 

Yeah, they definitely hoped to squeeze another run or two out of the old guys. It was a sensible strategy. Probably the best idea at the time. 

Didn't work, and now we have to clean up the mess, but it was a sensible strategy. 

Not many of the guys boohooing about everything now never understood that. 

 

[Bwestbrook36]

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Over time yes they did need replacing. That goes without saying. What I'm getting at is that after the SB victory this team was in a very very good position to build on that and be a contender for a number of years. That failed mostly because Howie is a bad GM.

Exactly they were all in there 20's when they won the super bowl. The next 3-4 years should of been them winning another ring in their primes. Someone else tried to make the argument that they were old when they won. Blount sproles and peters were old when they won. The rest were mid to late 20's prime of their careers with a young QB that was supposed to be having us compete for awhile. 

[wyote]

8 hours ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Over time yes they did need replacing. That goes without saying. What I'm getting at is that after the SB victory this team was in a very very good position to build on that and be a contender for a number of years. That failed mostly because Howie is a bad GM.

It failed because football is hard. We had an aging team, salary cap problems, a franchise QB that the fans didn't like. Sure, not enough draft picks panned out (at least until they went to other teams), but the draft is always a crapshoot. 

I mean, have your temper tantrums if it does something for you. But this is how it's always going to be. There will be lean years and fat years because there are 31 other teams and they're all trying pretty hard too. Nothing is guaranteed. Poop happens. Football is hard.  

[wyote]

3 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Exactly they were all in there 20's when they won the super bowl. The next 3-4 years should of been them winning another ring in their primes. Someone else tried to make the argument that they were old when they won. Blount sproles and peters were old when they won. The rest were mid to late 20's prime of their careers with a young QB that was supposed to be having us compete for awhile. 

At best we had guys in their prime. Which means 2 years away from being old. Mid- to late-20s is pretty near old. I don't know what sport you think they're playing. Not a lot of guys except QBs do much past 30. 

[Bwestbrook36]

17 minutes ago, wyote said:

At best we had guys in their prime. Which means 2 years away from being old. Mid- to late-20s is pretty near old. I don't know what sport you think they're playing. Not a lot of guys except QBs do much past 30. 

No sheet. 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

39 minutes ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Exactly they were all in there 20's when they won the super bowl. The next 3-4 years should of been them winning another ring in their primes. Someone else tried to make the argument that they were old when they won. Blount sproles and peters were old when they won. The rest were mid to late 20's prime of their careers with a young QB that was supposed to be having us compete for awhile. 

Some people don't really understand what they are talking about though. They like to think and make out they do but they don't. 

I mean Blount played an important part but he was a rotational guy and let's be honest... RB is a position you can bring in someone else at. Sproles was old but didn't he miss most of that year? Same with Peters.

This team didn't capitalise on the opportunity they had. They made bad choices (mostly the GM did) and year on year they regressed. And now they are in a real mess and a real hole. But hey let's keep the GM in place who put us there. 

[wyote]

8 minutes ago, UK_EaglesFan89 said:

Some people don't really understand what they are talking about though. They like to think and make out they do but they don't.  

You mean people who pretend to know what Lurie's relationship with Howie is like? Who pretend to know who was responsible for particular decisions? Who pretend to know why different players and schemes have succeeded or not? 

[UK_EaglesFan89]

50 minutes ago, wyote said:

You mean people who pretend to know what Lurie's relationship with Howie is like? Who pretend to know who was responsible for particular decisions? Who pretend to know why different players and schemes have succeeded or not? 

No I don't mean that at all. 

[time2rock]

16 hours ago, Bwestbrook36 said:

Exactly they were all in there 20's when they won the super bowl. The next 3-4 years should of been them winning another ring in their primes. Someone else tried to make the argument that they were old when they won. Blount sproles and peters were old when they won. The rest were mid to late 20's prime of their careers with a young QB that was supposed to be having us compete for awhile. 

They really caught lightning in a bottle that year (especially considering we lost Wentz, Peters, and Hicks at various points for the remainder of the regular season).  Most if not all of the veteran FAs Howie signed not only panned out but played significant roles in getting us there (Robinson, Long, etc.).  The trade for Ajayi worked out equally well.  

After that year they thought they thought they had a blueprint for winning another (and another ...).  The FA acquisitions since that year haven't worked out as well for the most part (some like Hargrave did but most failed).  The injuries have since been much greater.  But I still feel the biggest reason for the decline was the loss of both Reich and Flip.  Doug was no offensive guru (or a QB whisperer).  I am not sure if any of them individually are ... but collectively they were a good group that formulated well thought out game plans, and were able to keep each other in check for the most part.  Between the loss of those coaches and an aging roster without much young talent to take their places without missing a beat, that led to where we are today.  

[Bwestbrook36]

12 minutes ago, time2rock said:

They really caught lightning in a bottle that year (especially considering we lost Wentz, Peters, and Hicks at various points for the remainder of the regular season).  Most if not all of the veteran FAs Howie signed not only panned out but played significant roles in getting us there (Robinson, Long, etc.).  The trade for Ajayi worked out equally well.  

After that year they thought they thought they had a blueprint for winning another (and another ...).  The FA acquisitions since that year haven't worked out as well for the most part (some like Hargrave did but most failed).  The injuries have since been much greater.  But I still feel the biggest reason for the decline was the loss of both Reich and Flip.  Doug was no offensive guru (or a QB whisperer).  I am not sure if any of them individually are ... but collectively they were a good group that formulated well thought out game plans, and were able to keep each other in check for the most part.  Between the loss of those coaches and an aging roster without much young talent to take their places without missing a beat, that led to where we are today.  

The team simply wasn't prepared to lose their coaching staff after year 2. Then it all went to their heads and they didn't know how to replace even the coaches . Like I've said that super bowl was the greatest thing ever but, it was also a curse that brought us to where we are today