2 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Unfortunately it looks like it didn’t meet its target.

1 hour ago, Talkingbirds said:

Unfortunately it looks like it didn’t meet its target.

That’s not the warhead. They likely used the cluster variant, so it opens up at higher altitude and drops the clusters.

From what I saw they hit what they were aiming at.

I thought they've been using atacms for a while now

3 hours ago, we_gotta_believe said:

I thought they've been using atacms for a while now

Not this deep.

4 hours ago, Procus said:

So Russian infiltration into this corrupt US administration is finally paying dividends. The new "Russian - US peace deal proposal” is the exact plan that Putin has been putting out. Ukraine gives up the entire Donbass, even land it still controls. They have to reduce their military to a size of Russia’s liking. They give up any long range missle capabilities. Crimea and all other Russian held territories are officially recognized as Russian. Russian is the official language and the Russian Orthodox Church is the official religious authority.

Sounds like a tremendously generous deal for Ukraine.

And the traitor in chief approves of the deal. All it took was two weeks to come up with this nonsense…stellar plan!

1 hour ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

So Russian infiltration into this corrupt US administration is finally paying dividends. The new "Russian - US peace deal proposal” is the exact plan that Putin has been putting out. Ukraine gives up the entire Donbass, even land it still controls. They have to reduce their military to a size of Russia’s liking. They give up any long range missle capabilities. Crimea and all other Russian held territories are officially recognized as Russian. Russian is the official language and the Russian Orthodox Church is the official religious authority.

Sounds like a tremendously generous deal for Ukraine.

And the traitor in chief approves of the deal. All it took was two weeks to come up with this nonsense…stellar plan!

What a Fing **** bag and totally as one would have expected.

1 minute ago, DrPhilly said:

What a Fing **** bag and totally as one would have expected.

Thing is, he was teasing a "fair” outcome and that he wasn’t happy with Putin etc..

At the end of the day, he was complicit in prolonging the war until his pal Putin had enough of an advantage on the front. It’s not looking good for Ukraine and our allies in Europe are being left out in the cold.

A massive betrayal for the ages if this current US regime forces this laughable Kremlin proposal down Ukraine’s throat…

30 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Thing is, he was teasing a "fair” outcome and that he wasn’t happy with Putin etc..

At the end of the day, he was complicit in prolonging the war until his pal Putin had enough of an advantage on the front. It’s not looking good for Ukraine and our allies in Europe are being left out in the cold.

A massive betrayal for the ages if this current US regime forces this laughable Kremlin proposal down Ukraine’s throat…

All true though Ukraine is far from finished.

The 28pts are now released. Obviously lots of detail but the key points are the land concession requirements on Ukraine AND the article 5 level guarantees for Ukraine. I've always thought there would end up being some land loss in exchange for an article 5 level guarantee from NATO/US to defend Ukraine but the current ask on Ukraine is way too much imho.

Seems things are VERY fluid though so expect this to change/morph and eventually fall apart in all likelihood.

21 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

The 28pts are now released. Obviously lots of detail but the key points are the land concession requirements on Ukraine AND the article 5 level guarantees for Ukraine. I've always thought there would end up being some land loss in exchange for an article 5 level guarantee from NATO/US to defend Ukraine but the current ask on Ukraine is way too much imho.

Seems things are VERY fluid though so expect this to change/morph and eventually fall apart in all likelihood.

Honestly, this "plan” is a complete joke and is basically a capitulation of Ukraine. There are no real security guarantees by the US. Both sides agree not to attack each other and if Russia attacks Ukraine again, sanctions are put back on. No chance ever of NATO and a reduction of forces. Where did you read article 5?! There is no such proposal that I’ve read and the Trump regime isn’t even 100% with article 5 with our own allies…

Ukraine is in a terrible position, but I can’t imagine they accept such a ludicrous deal. It’s basically written by the Kremlin and their puppet Wittkoff.

4 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Honestly, this "plan” is a complete joke and is basically a capitulation of Ukraine. There are no real security guarantees by the US. Both sides agree not to attack each other and if Russia attacks Ukraine again, sanctions are put back on. No chance ever of NATO and a reduction of forces. Where did you read article 5?! There is no such proposal that I’ve read and the Trump regime isn’t even 100% with article 5 with our own allies…

Ukraine is in a terrible position, but I can’t imagine they accept such a ludicrous deal. It’s basically written by the Kremlin and their puppet Wittkoff.

There is a separate addendum to one of the points (can't remember the number) that specifically calls out an "Article 5" level guarantee.

None the less, I don't expect anything to be signed.

On 11/19/2025 at 11:32 PM, Bill said:

Not this deep.

That's what she said! 😃

36 minutes ago, DrPhilly said:

There is a separate addendum to one of the points (can't remember the number) that specifically calls out an "Article 5" level guarantee.

None the less, I don't expect anything to be signed.

This „plan" reminds me of the Munich Agreement of 1938 and we know how that turned out…

2 hours ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

This „plan" reminds me of the Munich Agreement of 1938 and we know how that turned out…

Laughable

The US is supposed to single handedly carry Ukraine in this permanent war, for what? So all you Europeans can feel warm and fuzzy?

If you all are so passionate, send your armies to Ukraine. Step up to the plate for all the nonsense you pretend to stand for.

But none of them will. So sit down and let Trump handle this so we can all move on with our lives.

But you can continue all the veiled WW3 references for entertainment purposes if youd like. I get a real kick out of it

9 minutes ago, Mike31mt said:

Laughable

The US is supposed to single handedly carry Ukraine in this permanent war, for what? So all you Europeans can feel warm and fuzzy?

If you all are so passionate, send your armies to Ukraine. Step up to the plate for all the nonsense you pretend to stand for.

But none of them will. So sit down and let Trump handle this so we can all move on with our lives.

But you can continue all the veiled WW3 references for entertainment purposes if youd like. I get a real kick out of it

Your take on this matter is really laughable and uneducated. Maybe better to stay with domestic issues instead of posting this kind of garbage. But then again, it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. You do you 👍👏🏻

Just a friendly reminder that Trump's HUGE mineral deal was also BS. MAGA was so proud of that one.

Just now, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Your take on this matter is really laughable and uneducated. Maybe better to stay with domestic issues instead of posting this kind of garbage. But then again, it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. You do you 👍👏🏻

Yeah it's laughable because you say so.

Again, put your money where your mouth is instead of relying on Daddy USA to do all the dirty work to satisfy your pollyanna view of the world

I'll be waiting for the Frances and Germanys of the world to step up and do what's right. Handle business on your own continent before opening your mouth about what the US needs to do

Can’t see this being agreed to, but without US support, Ukraine will be in dire situation.

1 minute ago, Mike31mt said:

Yeah it's laughable because you say so.

Again, put your money where your mouth is instead of relying on Daddy USA to do all the dirty work to satisfy your pollyanna view of the world

I'll be waiting for the Frances and Germanys of the world to step up and do what's right. Handle business on your own continent before opening your mouth about what the US needs to do

I’m probably not in the minority with my view that your take is laughable on this matter.

Daddy USA? Yeah, my dad is actually Daddy USA to me. He served his country in Vietnam and my brother was in Iraq and Afghanistan. So don’t come with that European garbage. You do know that US citizens do live abroad, right?! There are actually more places to live outside of the West Virginia hills. So I can actually have an opinion on what I think the foreign policy "should” be. Doesn’t mean it will be.

Why do you think the US has military all over the world, especially in Europe? Only out of the goodness of our heart? It’s strategic policy and it’s kept the World, including the US, safe from major world wars.

What has been asked of the US?! Was anyone asking for troops? Are we a part of NATO?

Last question: do you think Russia is our friend and wants a loving, caring relationship with us?

23 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Your take on this matter is really laughable and uneducated. Maybe better to stay with domestic issues instead of posting this kind of garbage. But then again, it’s your opinion and you’re entitled to it. You do you 👍👏🏻

Oh, he gets laughed out of the room on those too.

4 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

What has been asked of the US?! Was anyone asking for troops? Are we a part of NATO?

Last question: do you think Russia is our friend and wants a loving, caring relationship with us?

Since you're in the mood for lecturing us on how much more we should support Ukraine, even though we've supported them more than all of Europe combined, why don't you tell me what else we can do?

You just want to drag this out in perpetuity? Ukraine should be the never ending hole of military funding and death until there's not a single Ukrainian left? Is that your end goal?

Discretion is the better part of valor. Ukraine is not winning. They were never going to win. Do you disagree with that?

And no. I don't think Russia is our friend. But that doesn't mean we have to start military conflicts at every turn. That's why I called your view of the world "pollyanna"--its not always about good guys vs. bad guys.

At some point you must acknowledge reality, and it seems none of you ever will

6 minutes ago, we_gotta_believe said:

Oh, he gets laughed out of the room on those too.

Right, tell me more about Kamala Harris saving democracy by being appointed President.

Former libertarian turned full on commie, it's sad