November 2, 20223 yr 45 minutes ago, Mlodj said: A "B Course" student right out of pilot training and IFF takes 6 months to check out in a fighter. An experienced fighter pilot in a "TX Course" transitioning from another fighter takes about 2 1/2 months. Once they get to their squadron it's generally a couple or several months past that before they're really competent in the aircraft, just as a wingman. In other words, it's not a short process. Then there's the maintenance structure and troops which would take even longer to set up in country. Finally there's the equipment itself. The F-15Cs the USAF currently operates and is retiring were built in the late 70s and early 80s. That was 40 to 50 years ago now. The last USAF F-16 was delivered in 2005, or 17 years ago and I don't see the U.S. military giving those up when they're feeling like they might need those airframes themselves to fly in combat against the Russians, Chinese or political incorrectness. I would argue what Ukraine is really interested in are the weapons those airframes carry, primarily the air-to-air missiles and air-to-ground PGMs more so than the aircraft. Isn’t the USAF ordering a bunch of F-15EX?
November 2, 20223 yr 9 hours ago, TEW said: Isn’t the USAF ordering a bunch of F-15EX? To be determined. The funding for it has been up and down more times than I can count for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being that the USAF is not thrilled about paying for an aircraft that will primarily be operated by the Guard in the continental air defense role. Right now they have a few aircraft delivered and are looking for a buy of 150ish. LINK
November 2, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Mlodj said: To be determined. The funding for it has been up and down more times than I can count for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being that the USAF is not thrilled about paying for an aircraft that will primarily be operated by the Guard in the continental air defense role. Right now they have a few aircraft delivered and are looking for a buy of 150ish. LINK Scrap it all and get more NGAD in 10 years. Eventually we will have a single airframe with a win button.
November 2, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, TEW said: Scrap it all and get more NGAD in 10 years. Eventually we will have a single airframe with a win button. B-21 Raider being shown to public on 12/2. First sixth generation aircraft.
November 2, 20223 yr 54 minutes ago, barho said: B-21 Raider being shown to public on 12/2. First sixth generation aircraft. I made a thread on it back when it was announced that the release would be in December. Will bump with the update. Yet somehow we will still be flying B-52’s alongside it.
November 2, 20223 yr 4 hours ago, TEW said: I made a thread on it back when it was announced that the release would be in December. Will bump with the update. Yet somehow we will still be flying B-52’s alongside it. IIRC they're also modifying B-52s to finally get an APU so they don't have to be started with a truck. I don't know who designed the B-52, but they weren't paid enough.
November 2, 20223 yr 7 hours ago, Mlodj said: To be determined. The funding for it has been up and down more times than I can count for a multitude of reasons, the primary one being that the USAF is not thrilled about paying for an aircraft that will primarily be operated by the Guard in the continental air defense role. Right now they have a few aircraft delivered and are looking for a buy of 150ish. LINK You find yourself as Secretary of the Air Force an Congress just gave you a blank check. What are you doing with it?
November 2, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Bill said: You find yourself as Secretary of the Air Force an Congress just gave you a blank check. What are you doing with it? Hookers n blow.
November 3, 20223 yr Yet another failed attack on a bridge. Meanwhile, this sort of slaughter occurs on a daily basis: Time for a fresh batch. Ukie mobilization #10 incoming.
November 3, 20223 yr 17 minutes ago, Abracadabra said: Your morning selection of Russian missile fails.
November 3, 20223 yr On 10/30/2022 at 4:13 PM, JohnSnowsHair said: The F16 makes a lot on sense as a 'low cost' platform - of course you have to train the pilots, train the ground crews/mechanics, have the logistics in place and protect them with patriot batteries, etc. (I think the F16 has like a 300 nmi range, so getting hit on the ground by missiles isn't great). Once you have all that, you'll still have to fly low because of the SAM threat and then there's the MANPAD problem which the Ruskies are acquainted with - not sure if the F16 has the standoff capability to untie that knot or the West will give them more EW to jam up them radars.
November 3, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, Abracadabra said: Do you grease up the scale model before putting it in your bum?
November 3, 20223 yr On 11/2/2022 at 6:42 PM, Bill said: IIRC they're also modifying B-52s to finally get an APU so they don't have to be started with a truck. I don't know who designed the B-52, but they weren't paid enough. I don’t think @vikas83 has enough slurpees to keep up with that kind of demand.
November 3, 20223 yr 43 minutes ago, 20dawk4life said: I don’t think @vikas83 has enough slurpees to keep up with that kind of demand. he needs to start marketing his lego figurine better.
November 3, 20223 yr On 11/2/2022 at 8:24 AM, TEW said: Scrap it all and get more NGAD in 10 years. Eventually we will have a single airframe with a win button. Unfortunately, the history of U.S. military procurement is to pursue the next shiny object down the road at the expense of current programs. That's the opposite of how the Chinese, as an example, do it. They go with the good system, get it into production, and then incrementally modify till it's very good to scary. On 11/2/2022 at 2:42 PM, Bill said: IIRC they're also modifying B-52s to finally get an APU so they don't have to be started with a truck. Plus new engines and a new cockpit. On 11/2/2022 at 2:44 PM, Bill said: You find yourself as Secretary of the Air Force an Congress just gave you a blank check. What are you doing with it? For procurement, as unglamorous, and expensive, as it is the USAF components of the nuclear triad need to be updated. The Minuteman missile was designed when Ike was president. Preferably get a mobile replacement. Then they need to buy a usable number of B-21s; the B-2 buy was supposed to be 100 airframes, but it was cut to 21. Next, the NGAD needs to have assured funding and, again, be bought in reasonable numbers; the F-117 and F-22 have shown how difficult it is to maintain a small fleet of aircraft. The final priority is a new AWACS based on the Aussie "Wedgetail". Out of the box, the USAF should buy some air defense systems for its bases (laser based would be nice) rather than relying on the Army for it. It's eye opening what's being done in the Middle East and Ukraine with small drones in swarm attacks and conventional SAM systems are not designed to counter them while gun systems invariably spew a whole bunch of missed rounds down range that can become just as dangerous as the drones themselves. For operations, fund the sheet out of increased flying hours and increased pay for the maintainers. That would make a word of difference in recruitment and retention for pilots and maintainers.
November 3, 20223 yr 26 minutes ago, Mlodj said: Unfortunately, the history of U.S. military procurement is to pursue the next shiny object down the road at the expense of current programs. That's the opposite of how the Chinese, as an example, do it. They go with the good system, get it into production, and then incrementally modify till it's very good to scary. Plus new engines and a new cockpit. For procurement, as unglamorous, and expensive, as it is the USAF components of the nuclear triad need to be updated. The Minuteman missile was designed when Ike was president. Preferably get a mobile replacement. Then they need to buy a usable number of B-21s; the B-2 buy was supposed to be 100 airframes, but it was cut to 21. Next, the NGAD needs to have assured funding and, again, be bought in reasonable numbers; the F-117 and F-22 have shown how difficult it is to maintain a small fleet of aircraft. The final priority is a new AWACS based on the Aussie "Wedgetail". Out of the box, the USAF should buy some air defense systems for its bases (laser based would be nice) rather than relying on the Army for it. It's eye opening what's being done in the Middle East and Ukraine with small drones in swarm attacks and conventional SAM systems are not designed to counter them while gun systems invariably spew a whole bunch of missed rounds down range that can become just as dangerous as the drones themselves. For operations, fund the sheet out of increased flying hours and increased pay for the maintainers. That would make a word of difference in recruitment and retention for pilots and maintainers. As I understand it, the new RAM materials being used on the B-21 (and NGAD in the future) are supposed to cut down on maintenance by a lot. Basically the new ceramics are a small step up in radar absorption but a huge improvement in heat resistance, anti corrosion, etc which should cut down on maintenance cycles significantly. So more airframes with a faster turnaround that are cheaper to maintain. Here’s hoping! The drone swarm problem is a real quandary. I have no idea if there is a defensive counter that’s economical. Lasers, I guess, but then you’re so dependent on a reliable energy source. And even then how expensive would getting enough lasers to defend against a drone swarm be?
November 3, 20223 yr Unlike what's depicted in the movies, lasers (even mil spec) aren't instantaneous vaporizers. They need still need to linger on the target. And as mentioned, size of the energy source is a concern also, which limit options on anything but larger naval platforms. What we've seen in Ukraine aren't technically coordinated drone swarms though. They are individual low-tech drones that dive bomb on stationary unarmored targets. I don't think there's much concern there to be honest. But an actual swarm would require something akin to bird shot on steroids. Maybe something proximity fused but their rcs and heat sigs would be very low and you wouldn't want to be launching anything that's more expensive than the target you're striking.
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