5 hours ago, Mlodj said:

My favorite from early in the war was when Poland moved a bunch of T-72s to a facility right on the border with Ukraine and then publicly did a Captain Renault "I'm shocked, shocked" when the tanks mysteriously went missing from the unsecured yard.

7 hours ago, Bill said:

The reason why it is the way it is today is a combo of issues, but that is the biggest piece of the pie.

Biden appointed/nominated the most incompetent people to his administration, so we got a: the slow rolling of US aid to Ukraine, and b: trying to ask Europe to kindly pretty please with sugar on top provide aid*. There are ongoing issues on the Ukrainian side of things, as well, but the US ished the bed in '22.

*The only Euro/Nato nations worth a damn are East and North of and including Poland. Every other NATO country as far as I'm concerned is about as useful as teets on a boar hog, and the fact that absolutely zero pressure was or is put on them is ridiculous. Honestly I think we F'd up during the Cold War years. We should have had a plan to absolutely get involved if the Soviets went through the Fulda Gap but told the Euros that we would absolutely not have done anything and they were on their own. But w/e.

Agreed that it was/is a combo of things that were and are still mishandled. Biden made his mistakes and had his usual gaffe (“it’s one thing if it’s only a minor incursion”…). Plus the absolute crap show from Western European countries, who were very dependent on Russian Oil and Gas. Both Europe and the US failed to meet the Russian aggression with a force of power. How many red lines did Russia lay out there to deter involvement from NATO?! They played with the fears and did a masterful job of it.

The difference between the Eastern Nato countries and the Western allies is 1. They are way more threatened and anxious about a Russian invasion. 2. They know exactly that the Russians are imperialists and want to overthrow their democratic governments to make them satellite states. 3. They don’t have to worry about history as a country like Germany does. 4. They are not thousands of km away, which makes Nr. 1 even more obvious.

I don’t understand what you meant with your bolded statement about the Cold War and the Fulda Gap. We had units stationed on the Fulda Gap and certainly had a plan if the Russians would have came across. There were even plans to use tactical nukes in that scenario. Maybe I’m misreading your statement…?

3 hours ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Agreed that it was/is a combo of things that were and are still mishandled. Biden made his mistakes and had his usual gaffe (“it’s one thing if it’s only a minor incursion”…). Plus the absolute crap show from Western European countries, who were very dependent on Russian Oil and Gas. Both Europe and the US failed to meet the Russian aggression with a force of power. How many red lines did Russia lay out there to deter involvement from NATO?! They played with the fears and did a masterful job of it.

The difference between the Eastern Nato countries and the Western allies is 1. They are way more threatened and anxious about a Russian invasion. 2. They know exactly that the Russians are imperialists and want to overthrow their democratic governments to make them satellite states. 3. They don’t have to worry about history as a country like Germany does. 4. They are not thousands of km away, which makes Nr. 1 even more obvious.

I don’t understand what you meant with your bolded statement about the Cold War and the Fulda Gap. We had units stationed on the Fulda Gap and certainly had a plan if the Russians would have came across. There were even plans to use tactical nukes in that scenario. Maybe I’m misreading your statement…?

My statement was such that Europe leaned too much on the US for their own defense and their forces suffered a bit for it, IMO, but it was even more pronounced after '92 when people thought that war was a thing of the past. NATO forces became so degraded that the US needed to bail the Euros out in Libya a few years ago because they couldn't sustain an air campaign of more than two weeks, which was ridiculous.

I get that Germany has the whole "we were the bad guys almost a century ago thing" going on, but that doesn't excuse the rest of everybody else. The forces of the Med nations are a complete and total joke. Spain and Portugal's effort is abhorrent, and Italy isn't doing much better. All Greece cares about is having slightly better toys than the Turks, and all the Turks care about is playing both sides and killing Kurds. England can barely get an army together. And Canada is going on round 13 of "should we really buy the most advanced fighter available to us, or should we thumb our nose at the Americans again and buy an inferior Swedish product at the same price point, or should we just keep our three legacy hornets".

Then you have countries like Poland who are investing so much that they currently operate four* types of main tanks because they want as much as they can get. (*Technically five, but one of them is basically a T-72 variant.)

2 hours ago, Bill said:

My statement was such that Europe leaned too much on the US for their own defense and their forces suffered a bit for it, IMO, but it was even more pronounced after '92 when people thought that war was a thing of the past. NATO forces became so degraded that the US needed to bail the Euros out in Libya a few years ago because they couldn't sustain an air campaign of more than two weeks, which was ridiculous.

I get that Germany has the whole "we were the bad guys almost a century ago thing" going on, but that doesn't excuse the rest of everybody else. The forces of the Med nations are a complete and total joke. Spain and Portugal's effort is abhorrent, and Italy isn't doing much better. All Greece cares about is having slightly better toys than the Turks, and all the Turks care about is playing both sides and killing Kurds. England can barely get an army together. And Canada is going on round 13 of "should we really buy the most advanced fighter available to us, or should we thumb our nose at the Americans again and buy an inferior Swedish product at the same price point, or should we just keep our three legacy hornets".

Then you have countries like Poland who are investing so much that they currently operate four* types of main tanks because they want as much as they can get. (*Technically five, but one of them is basically a T-72 variant.)

Summed up perfectly

Trump is such a freaking moron. What obtuse Dhead! Read the room! He is talking about how he finally was able to to dinner because of how unsafe DC is while sitting next to the leader of a country being bombed nightly with children dying. Even talks about golf!

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DNiv207okAl/?igsh=MWRmMWxwYjZueWYyMw==

8 hours ago, Bill said:

My statement was such that Europe leaned too much on the US for their own defense and their forces suffered a bit for it, IMO, but it was even more pronounced after '92 when people thought that war was a thing of the past. NATO forces became so degraded that the US needed to bail the Euros out in Libya a few years ago because they couldn't sustain an air campaign of more than two weeks, which was ridiculous.

I get that Germany has the whole "we were the bad guys almost a century ago thing" going on, but that doesn't excuse the rest of everybody else. The forces of the Med nations are a complete and total joke. Spain and Portugal's effort is abhorrent, and Italy isn't doing much better. All Greece cares about is having slightly better toys than the Turks, and all the Turks care about is playing both sides and killing Kurds. England can barely get an army together. And Canada is going on round 13 of "should we really buy the most advanced fighter available to us, or should we thumb our nose at the Americans again and buy an inferior Swedish product at the same price point, or should we just keep our three legacy hornets".

Then you have countries like Poland who are investing so much that they currently operate four* types of main tanks because they want as much as they can get. (*Technically five, but one of them is basically a T-72 variant.)

Europe definitely leaned way too much on US defense after the Berlin Wall came down. Western Europe basically thought that there would never be another "major” war on the continent. They felt comfortable hiding behind US security. The new extrem pacifistic movement inside some governments (top of list: Germany) made them reduce their military to a laughable non deterrent.

Absolutely agree in your summary of the Mediterranean countries. Their military forces are and have always been a joke. You can’t depend on them whatsoever, that’s why they really never get mentioned when it comes to anything militarily. I wouldn’t count out the Brits and to some extent the French, as they have had a history of supporting the US in some of their "wars” like Iraq etc..

The problem is that all of these countries have their own interests and are very reluctant to lead in any type of way when it comes to fighting for a greater cause that’s not directly tied to their agenda.

Poland and the Baltics know their dangerous position with Russia directly on their border. Their military investments are supported by almost their entire population, which makes it a lot easier to sell domestically.

2 minutes ago, Frankfurteagle89 said:

Europe definitely leaned way too much on US defense after the Berlin Wall came down. Western Europe basically thought that there would never be another "major” war on the continent. They felt comfortable hiding behind US security. The new extrem pacifistic movement inside some governments (top of list: Germany) made them reduce their military to a laughable non deterrent.

Absolutely agree in your summary of the Mediterranean countries. Their military forces are and have always been a joke. You can’t depend on them whatsoever, that’s why they really never get mentioned when it comes to anything militarily. I wouldn’t count out the Brits and to some extent the French, as they have had a history of supporting the US in some of their "wars” like Iraq etc..

The problem is that all of these countries have their own interests and are very reluctant to lead in any type of way when it comes to fighting for a greater cause that’s not directly tied to their agenda.

Poland and the Baltics know their dangerous position with Russia directly on their border. Their military investments are supported by almost their entire population, which makes it a lot easier to sell domestically.

Yes, and the role the US has played is in part the middle man who puts the differences the Euro countries have with each other aside and brings unity. Trump is right to demand more financial coverage from Europe but his reckless manner adds an unhealthy amount of risk. If middle Europe+UK can step up and join the Nordics, Poland, and the Baltics then there will be enough to hold off Putin. Unfortunately, that is going to take time and Germany needs to get and keep their sheet together. No more silly moves like shutting down all the nuclear power and relying on Russian gas. In the meantime, the US must continue in the role it has had since WWII.

I had to laugh when someone on here asked why the negotiations can't just be thru Europe.

1 hour ago, DrPhilly said:

Yes, and the role the US has played is in part the middle man who puts the differences the Euro countries have with each other aside and brings unity. Trump is right to demand more financial coverage from Europe but his reckless manner adds an unhealthy amount of risk. If middle Europe+UK can step up and join the Nordics, Poland, and the Baltics then there will be enough to hold off Putin. Unfortunately, that is going to take time and Germany needs to get and keep their sheet together. No more silly moves like shutting down all the nuclear power and relying on Russian gas. In the meantime, the US must continue in the role it has had since WWII.

I had to laugh when someone on here asked why the negotiations can't just be thru Europe.

Absolutely agree that the US has played the middle man, especially with security issues. Trump was and is right that Europe has to step up financially and militarily. Problem with him is that he is erratic, not trustworthy, not dependable, doesn’t understand foreign affairs whatsoever, his lack of knowing history (important in understanding foreign affairs) and his devotion towards dictators. He’s right, but for the wrong reasons.

Yep, it will take time to get a unified European coalition together militarily. Vast numbers of the population are against rearming as they don’t see the threat. they believe flowers and talking about peace should be enough to keep Russia friendly. Germany is still suffering from Merkel’s policies and her idiotic idea of dependency of Russian gas etc.. Shutting down all nuclear power plants (some of the most modern in the world) was a colossal mistake.

There’s so much that needs to change and there might not be enough time to fully accomplish that.

He will change his mind tomorrow

1 hour ago, DaEagles4Life said:

He will change his mind tomorrow

wtf is he even talking about. 🤣

50 minutes ago, DaEagles4Life said:

hey @Procus @Diehardfan damn, putin bascially just pissed on trump's face with this attack. so kind of like old times for those two eh?

wow man, this is a far cry from those 3day claims. 🤣

13 minutes ago, Alpha_TATEr said:

hey @Procus @Diehardfan damn, putin bascially just pissed on trump's face with this attack. so kind of like old times for those two eh?

wow man, this is a far cry from those 3day claims. 🤣

Nothing like celebrating more war, right?

7 minutes ago, Diehardfan said:

Nothing like celebrating more war, right?

who is celebrating war? I'm mocking mr tough guy who just got golden showered by russia.

like you keep saying though, you voted for this.

Just now, Alpha_TATEr said:

who is celebrating war? I'm mocking mr tough guy who just got golden showered by russia.

like you keep saying though, you voted for this.

Bad things happened that can extend the war!!! But I'm not rejoicing in it I'm just happy to have another reason to post negatively about Trump. Yawn

Just now, Diehardfan said:

Bad things happened that can extend the war!!! But I'm not rejoicing in it I'm just happy to have another reason to post negatively about Trump. Yawn

look at you curling up like an armadillo.

you voted for the promise of this being ended in days. bragging at times how unlike with a feeble biden, macho daddy trump was gonna show the world the art of the deal. 🤣

listen, i know it can be tough to swallow after so many other times but once again you win the .....

2 hours ago, DaEagles4Life said:

He will change his mind tomorrow

Likely just trying to pressure the Kremlin in to setting up the meeting with Zelensky. Putin supposedly agreed to it, but he Kremlin says it will take a long time to figure out logistics and security.

Not doing the right thing and putting maximum pressure on Putin/Russia is one of the main reasons why Trump is absolutely incompetent and just plain stupid. Him showing real leadership, not just for the cameras, would actually give him an easy victory and improve his overall standing around the "free” world. There really is only one side to take here and it’s very simple. He’s even got Europeans paying for the equipment etc., so there isn’t much of a financial burden on the US taxpayer.

He’s just too dumb to see and take it…

Just now, HazletonEagle said:

Likely just trying to pressure the Kremlin in to setting up the meeting with Zelensky. Putin supposedly agreed to it, but he Kremlin says it will take a long time to figure out logistics

Nah, he isn’t putting any pressure on the Kremlin. They are laughing and mocking him as usual. I’m sure they have a bunch of vodka parties already after playing him again. How many times have we heard that we would know what Russia thinks about peace in two weeks?! They are mocking us, especially Trump, and are just going by their business of bombing and killing people in Ukraine.

it's crazy that ukraine hasn't been able to strike any targets inside russia. f'ng feeble biden.

obviously, all of those prior reports to the contrary were fake news.

No bilateral meeting. Trump fooled again. What a loser.

1 hour ago, barho said:

No bilateral meeting. Trump fooled again. What a loser.

link?