9 minutes ago, RLC said:

Panthers not even a finalist😅

Considering the fact they got to be one of the 4 teams he talked too is being in the running. Meanwhile teams like seattle, eagles he wouldn’t even talk too. I’d consider Carolina had a chance but they lost out to his childhood team and the saints who have a better roster and more FO stability. Frankly if he goes to the falcons it’s only cause he grew up with them as his favorite team and worked for them as a kid. Cause that roster is as bad the Texans roster. This really is he chose the saints over falcons, Carolina and browns or he chose his childhood team 

3 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know if childish is appropriate.  At some point, I would think these types of non-compete rules run the risk violation of Anti-trust laws.  

Bo is so clearly from money. Everything he says sounds like it's coming from a student council president at a private middle school.

2 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Can successfully kicked.  

 

Rewarding a great player.  Can live with six million in dead money spread over two seasons with a 2024 post June 1 retirement.  This sort of move makes the Eagles attractive to players. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Considering the fact they got to be one of the 4 teams he talked too is being in the running. Meanwhile teams like seattle, eagles he wouldn’t even talk too. I’d consider Carolina had a chance but they lost out to his childhood team and the saints who have a better roster and most FO stability  

It’s sounding, to me, like The Saints are looking to be the favourite right now…

Second meeting overnight, and they have freed up $110m in cap over the past week (well, when I say freed up, it’s more accurate to say pushed it down the road, a la Howie)…Can’t imagine a team would free up that much cap without a good reason.

 

 

3 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Bo is so clearly from money. Everything he says sounds like it's coming from a student council president at a private middle school.

I mean he went to Wake Forest for college which is for rich kids from the north who can't get into Duke.  

10 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know if childish is appropriate.  At some point, I would think these types of non-compete rules run the risk violation of Anti-trust laws.  

If it's Bo Wulf and BLG complaining, then I'm more likely to applaud the Eagles for doing the right thing.  Those two guys are knobs.

I didn't read the full article, but is the issue the Eagles want these guys to wait until after the draft to leave for other opportunities?  Frankly, I'm inclined to agree.

That works on a couple of levels…

6 minutes ago, EagleTen said:

It’s sounding, to me, like The Saints are looking to be the favourite right now…

Second meeting overnight, and they have freed up $110m in cap over the past week (well, when I say freed up, it’s more accurate to say pushed it down the road, a la Howie)…Can’t imagine a team would free up that much cap without a good reason.

Said the other day the saints out of the 4 teams is the team that I’d chose (assuming he wanted to stay in south) if i were in his shoes. from a roster, front office and championship perspective the next 2-3 years the saints made the most sense besides the browns. However he didn’t want to go to the browns as they weren’t in the south or a warm weather climate. They also at least met more of the criteria he had then the panthers and falcons. The panthers made sense in the fact he played college ball close to their and likes the area. However oline sucks, defense is solid but lost a couple starters from last year, shaky coach in rhule but an owner willing to spend money. The only reason the falcons are in this is cause he is from Gainesville Georgia cause roster talent and proven FO they are the worst of the 4 teams. 

also yeah on your clearing cap. Frankly i think wherever he goes he brings will fuller with him. Supposedly they are good friends and been rumors linking them 

Just now, ManuManu said:

That works on a couple of levels…

Please, please, please put Washington at Eagles on SNF or MNF.

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Who hired him?  Who hired Nick....it seems that he needs to be micromanaged too.  You say "micromanaged"....I say controllable.  Doug was no longer controllable.  Enter a less qualified more controllable lackey.  

That's a valid counterpoint, that the whole point of Doug being hired was to be micromanaged. I disagree, but who knows. Sirianni has more control over his staff than Doug did.

48 minutes ago, John_C said:

https://www.phillyvoice.com/source-eagles-sign-howie-roseman-three-year-contract-extension/

Devastating news for the franchise.  More years enabling the owner to be GM with his lackey in place as mouthpiece and always available fall guy if things crash too far.

Not surprising, as this owner would not have any interest in putting winning over his own desire to control what is happening and ultimately receive credit if he achieves success again.  He's never been held accountable for the numerous personnel failures, including the league-worst or 2nd to worst draft results over the last decade, or the most precipitous fall of a super bowl winning team with a young QB in NFL history.  No accountability means he can just keep the same deal going.  Eventually he and his lackey will be the last people left in the room.  Find more guys with emotional intelligence to support your "collaborative approach."

If the owner prioritized winning, Roseman would not have survived the last coaching fire.  Definitely should not have been around after things crashed due to personnel decisions and awful drafting, not coaching.  Now you can keep him around as you have to keep Hurts, because no one else (Wilson, Watson, Rodgers et al) will even consider coming here, and we know you can't draft anybody, and if you could it's unclear who here can develop someone anyway.  QB factory, indeed.  So you keep him around and now he can lead a "collaborative approach" for his 5th or 6th head coach, whatever it will be, because that makes sense.

It's difficult to see how success happens again, now that the game with the Eagles is largely up and people around the league know what is going on.  Personnel people who have achieved a certain level of success with the Eagles now seem to quickly look for exits.  The lackey is ridiculously trying to change NFL rules to limit future mobility for such employees, as if that would be remotely fair.  It's unclear whether they will be able to attract talented evaluators moving forward.  Most free agents no longer see the Eagles as an organization they want to play for, and that is a real shame because not long ago the team was viewed that way.   It is now a regular occurrence to hear about free agents that picked a team other than the Eagles.  Once the remaining team stalwarts retire or get traded, it could get pretty ugly.

The reality is that Lurie trusts Roseman largely because Roseman is a proxy for him.  At this point, I don't know if the 2 can be separated which is a big part of the frustration.  If we were to assume Roseman was the person solely responsible for draft, free agent and trade decisions.  I think we would grade him as failing on the draft side, he's average on FA side, and he's done well with trades.  The problem is that it's never clear whether any call is actually Howie's and he certainly willingly points the finger elsewhere for any bad outcome.  I don't know that getting rid of him changes that dynamic.  

19 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

From everything we've seen, Doug needed micromanaging. If you criticize Howie for Doug, criticize it as a bad hire.

 

What?  They won games on the road against the Packers and Bills running the ball and then had Howie complaining to Doug about how much he was running the ball. 

7 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

What does that have to do with anything?  Or does it matter because you disagree with his position?

Howie shouldn't be peeved a division rival signed one of his top personnel guys right before free agency and the draft?

8 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Who hired him?  Who hired Nick....it seems that he needs to be micromanaged too.  You say "micromanaged"....I say controllable.  Doug was no longer controllable.  Enter a less qualified more controllable lackey.  

Why did Doug get fired? He wanted to keep his choice for an OC.  Control was 100% of the issue.  Sirianni isn't making any decision without getting approval.  He may be getting his choices but it's like when you let your kid pick their dinner at a restaurant. 

Just now, NCiggles said:

Why did Doug get fired? He wanted to keep his choice for an OC.  Control was 100% of the issue.  Sirianni isn't making any decision without getting approval.  He may be getting his choices but it's like when you let your kid pick their dinner at a restaurant. 

Proof?

12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

If we are talking about optics and what's fair.  Where do you stand on a team working on the GM extension as Free Agency just opens up?  

So howie has been in the position he has 11 years and the eagles are 90-86-1 which is tied for 12th most wins. There is a possibility the bengals, niners cardinals and rams all pass the eagles this year in wins since howie took over. Which would mean the eagles sit at 16th in the league if that happens. I’m guessing the rams and cardinals probably the only two that do so likely 14th by years end (everyone ahead has better rosters currently… besides Steelers who are 21 wins ahead of us). so right in the middle of the pack which includes the super bowl year.

I’m forever grateful for that super bowl year and that run, but it is the biggest outlier/lightning in a bottle in the 11 years howie has been here. From 2011 to 2016 the eagles were 46-50 and after the super bowl they are 31-33-1. So the 10 years of the 11 (outside of the 2017 SB year) where howie has been in the position he has they are 77-83-1 and 1-4 in playoff games (one win on a double doink). Forever grateful for 2017 and it is a great accomplishment that you can’t take away from the eagles. but the other 10 years makes me believe that’s likely what you are gonna get. 

1 hour ago, ManuManu said:

He signs the tender and gets traded. 

Signing the tender allows Herbig to negotiate with other teams until April 22.  The team negotiating with Herbig can make him an offer to Herbig with no draft choices owed to the Eagles at this point.  Now, the Eagles would have to  match the offer to retain Herbig but there is no requirement the team that made the initial offer cannot  decline to then trade for Herbig.  Eagles have some leverage but not a lot so that could mean losing Herbig and the most they get in compensation is a low round pick if the offering team should decide they want Herbig at that cost. 

1 hour ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Nah.  Rather than going with the simple answer, give him money for this year and not have it stretch into the future (remember all the money he supposedly freed up to allow the Eagles to be players in the free agency game... ) he chose to lower Kelce's cap number for 2021... and then he has to either take a $15M hit in 2022 if Kelce walks away after next year, or $10M in 2023.    

Like I've said, he's unwilling to take the medicine now and always wants to push it to the future, hence the 'short-term' GM moves.  Nothing has changed.  His extension didn't make him look more long-term (aka, make sure that the dead cap hits of the future are minimal, but instead is focusing on keeping the cap hits NOW to the minimum, because he's still paying for the previous kicks of the can with Alshon, M. Jackson, Flacco, Kerrigan, etc. )    

 

My criticism is not of a single transaction, like bringing back Kelce and freeing up a little space for this year... my criticism is that this single transaction follows the exact same pattern of previous moves that created the problem the Eagles are currently in.   The STRUCTURE, not the player, is my criticism.  You need to separate the two to evaluate whether my criticism is valid.

He also rolls money over each season - in the NFL you don't lose cap money you don't use (unlike other sports leagues), you can roll it over into future years.

So Howie creates optionality by moving cap hit forward, then if he can't find a good use for that money in the current season, he rolls it forward, negating some of that future cap hit.

This provides the flexibility to make "win now" moves if they're competitive, or to eat cap room in a bad season and move out players.

42 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

FFS were only a few years out from a championship and people act like we've been the most poorly managed football team in the league. Plenty of criticism to go around but how many other teams would you want to switch FO's with for the long term?

Calling it like I see it as I always have.  The dynamic with this owner shifted post super bowl, in the wrong ways, and they drew the wrong conclusions.  I'd trade front offices with most other teams, as almost all of them draft better than the Eagles do.  It's also annoying that the owner is essentially Jerry Jones, but without the good draft record, and pretends he is not Jerry Jones.  If you are going to be the de facto GM, own it, and take the responsibility that goes along with it.

A better approach, a winning approach, would be for the owner to "own" and to hire and empower good people to lead the personnel side of the business.  Most importantly, hire people that can implement a structure to identify talent, and Maximize the acquisition of talent through the draft and other means.

Just now, NCiggles said:

The reality is that Lurie trusts Roseman largely because Roseman is a proxy for him.  At this point, I don't know if the 2 can be separated which is a big part of the frustration.  If we were to assume Roseman was the person solely responsible for draft, free agent and trade decisions.  I think we would grade him as failing on the draft side, he's average on FA side, and he's done well with trades.  The problem is that it's never clear whether any call is actually Howie's and he certainly willingly points the finger elsewhere for any bad outcome.  I don't know that getting rid of him changes that dynamic.  

This is 100% spot on.  They cannot be separated and should be considered as the same.  Decision maker and support system/enabler.  Some of the trades have worked out, some have been great, some have been necessary due to the result of other bad decisions.  It's going to keep getting more difficult to acquire free agents when the best ones no longer want to come here.  When that is the case, it is best to look inward and try to figure out why.   Getting a truthful answer to that question requires honesty and objectivity.

2 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

- Last year's draft was awesome.

- He absolutely robbed the Colts in the Wentz trade.

- The draft capital he has accumulated has us in a good position to rebuild.

But none of that means a damn if he can't find a franchise QB within the next 12-15 months.

If he delivers on that, he will be the GM for a while to come, if he doesn't, his days are numbered despite this extension.

Having the capital and then actually drafting good players is two different things. Howie has more bad than good in this area. They need to push assets to next year for a QB. Really feel like they missed the boat on young quality safeties this FA period, for whatever reason. That's already a strike against him one day into his new deal. I expect more of the same the next three years, maybe we sneak into the playoffs once like last year, and that's a big maybe. But we will get eliminated pretty easily even if we do. 

13 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

That works on a couple of levels…

Hmmm ..... for the folks who don't think the fishbowl that is the Philly media has anything to do with why a high-profile QB wouldn't see the Eagles as the most preferred trade destination.

31 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

I don't know if childish is appropriate.  At some point, I would think these types of non-compete rules run the risk violation of Anti-trust laws.  

I'd have to see the details.

I agree with Howie that the timing is wrong, you should be hiring AFTER the draft - taking your top personnel people before the draft is wrong on a number of levels.

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

No company, regardless of the industry, should try to prevent employees from advancing in that industry.  Whether it's within or a competitor.  It's bad business....but falls in line with his reputation.  

The timing of the Brown hire is the issue, not the hire itself. Unless I missed something, that was the point of the proposed change.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

I'd have to see the details.

I agree with Howie that the timing is wrong, you should be hiring AFTER the draft - taking your top personnel people before the draft is wrong on a number of levels.