1 hour ago, austinfan said:

 

Running QBs have value, Ravens scored 531 and 468 points with Jackson at QB, that first year Ingram at RB, but Andrews at TE was their leading receiver with 852 yards. The second season, Edwards and Dobbins at RB, Marquis Brown with 769 yards and Andrews with 701 yards.

 

 

How many playoff games have the Ravens won with their running QB?

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

How many playoff games have the Ravens won with their running QB?

I’d argue the bengals who upgraded their oline this offseason and potentially the browns if watson plays might have surpassed the ravens in that division. I’d argue i rather have burrow or watson over lamar.

31 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't bother with think tanks, I study crime, it's my biggest hobby. I follow the facts and the data to form an opinion.

Supervised injection sites may prevent OD deaths in certain instances, but it's still enabling addiction and homelessness. If you're an addict, you're going to be at risk of death. The goal is to get addicts off drugs and/or off the streets. If you keep enabling the addiction of those on drugs, nothing will change. It's just prolonging their condition until they ultimately die anyway. Whether it be from drugs, or issues related to being on the streets or being generally unwell.

I've done plenty of homework on it. The crime spike started the same week of the George Floyd riots. That is a fact. Violent crime and homicides continue to rise this year, 2 years removed from the height of the pandemic and unemployment is down. It had little to do with unemployment. At least homicides and violent crime. Unemployment has fluctuated throughout the decades, but since 1960 violent crime and crime in general has risen. After the recession in 2008, unemployment shot up, but in the 2010 decade we had the 2nd best decade ever in the US for crime(per capita) and best ever for homicides. That is right off the heels of a major recession and mass unemployment. Like I told you, unemployment was down in other countries, and crime went down. Why? Because everyone was locked inside. People were afraid.

To liquor stores enable alcoholics? Regulating and commercializing illegal drugs would probably result in less deaths just because the civil liability would push producers to make products less addictive.  

You didn't mention the rates at which gun purchases have gone up.  

Just now, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’d argue the bengals who upgraded their oline this offseason and potentially the browns if watson plays might have surpassed the ravens in that division. I’d argue i rather have burrow or watson over lamar.

I don't think it's even close.  

4 minutes ago, eagle45 said:

I don't think it's even close.  

I agree. 

15 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

I think this is the start

 

He would fit in well in here as many in here said similar things when Hill was traded. 

How many PO games have the Chargers won with their "elite" young QB?

First you get into the playoffs, then you try and win some playoff games. Last few seasons:

GB, 2-3 with Rodgers and a team at its peak

SF, 4-2 with Garoppolo

Houston, 1-2 with Watson

Buffalo, 3-3 with Allen

NO, 3-4 with Brees

Dallas, 1-2 with Dak

We know from 2017 anything can happen if you have a good team and make the playoffs, QBs get hot (cold) and teams go on runs (get upset).

 

So just for the record. We went from a running league as being the proven way to win, to a pass happy league as the proven way to win, and now we want to go back to being a running league, but now we run with our most expensive and more fragile player?  

Just now, austinfan said:

How many PO games have the Chargers won with their "elite" young QB?

First you get into the playoffs, then you try and win some playoff games. Last few seasons:

GB, 2-3 with Rodgers and a team at its peak

SF, 4-2 with Garoppolo

Houston, 1-2 with Watson

Buffalo, 3-3 with Allen

NO, 3-4 with Brees

Dallas, 1-2 with Dak

We know from 2017 anything can happen if you have a good team and make the playoffs, QBs get hot (cold) and teams go on runs (get upset).

 

Let's just rest on this debate.  The only reason you are on this hill isn't because you actually think elite QBs are not important or that running QB's have value.  It's because the Eagles have a non-elite running QB.  It's just pushing the positive narrative for the Eagles current QB situation.  You know it.  I know it.  Everyone else knows it.  So let's just allow this debate to rest.

1 hour ago, Sack that QB said:

I don't bother with think tanks, I study crime, it's my biggest hobby. I follow the facts and the data to form an opinion.

Supervised injection sites may prevent OD deaths in certain instances, but it's still enabling addiction and homelessness. If you're an addict, you're going to be at risk of death. The goal is to get addicts off drugs and/or off the streets. If you keep enabling the addiction of those on drugs, nothing will change. It's just prolonging their condition until they ultimately die anyway. Whether it be from drugs, or issues related to being on the streets or being generally unwell.

I've done plenty of homework on it. The crime spike started the same week of the George Floyd riots. That is a fact. Violent crime and homicides continue to rise this year, 2 years removed from the height of the pandemic and unemployment is down. It had little to do with unemployment. At least homicides and violent crime. Unemployment has fluctuated throughout the decades, but since 1960 violent crime and crime in general has risen. After the recession in 2008, unemployment shot up, but in the 2010 decade we had the 2nd best decade ever in the US for crime(per capita) and best ever for homicides. That is right off the heels of a major recession and mass unemployment. Like I told you, unemployment was down in other countries, and crime went down. Why? Because everyone was locked inside. People were afraid.

You study it? Exactly how? Do you have a background in criminology? Any statistical training?

"The crime spike started the same week of the George Floyd riots. That is a fact."

When someone states that something controversial is a fact without a reputable reference, I call "BS."

"Since 1960 violent crime and crime in general has risen" - uh sources? Because there was a two decade decline since the 1970s that's well documented.

And when you look at crime stats, beware. Outside of homicides (and there are issues there with coroners who lack training), crime data has a lot of noise.

It's entirely possible that Lamar Jackson ends up in the bottom half of AFC QBs sooner rather than later.

3 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

*IF* I were the Ravens, I would trade Lamar to the highest bidder and ride with Tyler Huntley

Huntley seems to be a better pass, more accurate(not as strong of an arm) but much much better accuracy wise and reads the defense WAYYYY better

And o ya, also has a really really good set of legs

Unlike Hurts, Jackson has arm talent.  The Ravens need to have an honest internal conversation to debate if Jackson can go the way of Randall and Vick...ie develop into an actual passer in the next stage...or decide that it's just not in his skill set.

He's going to want a lot of money and their franchise is in a terrible position giving that money to a QB whose greatest asset is functioning like a running back.  If they are not willing to bet huge $$$ on the assumption that he can make that transition, then it's time to trade him to that highest bidder, as you said.

16 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

To liquor stores enable alcoholics? Regulating and commercializing illegal drugs would probably result in less deaths just because the civil liability would push producers to make products less addictive.  

You didn't mention the rates at which gun purchases have gone up.  

Supervised injection sites and liquor stores is not a direct parallel. If you say you want to decriminalize drugs, I am in support of that... to a certain degree.

I did mention gun rates went up in one of my posts, you missed it.

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

You study it? Exactly how? Do you have a background in criminology? Any statistical training?

"The crime spike started the same week of the George Floyd riots. That is a fact."

When someone states that something controversial is a fact without a reputable reference, I call "BS."

"Since 1960 violent crime and crime in general has risen" - uh sources? Because there was a two decade decline since the 1970s that's well documented.

And when you look at crime stats, beware. Outside of homicides (and there are issues there with coroners who lack training), crime data has a lot of noise.

My initial career path was originally going to be forensic psychology. I've always had an interest in crime. You don't need statistical training to break down crime data lol. This isn't advance mathematics.

My source for increase in violent crime is any statistical crime database. The 1970s was very high in murder(per capita), the 1980s started off high in murder and trailed off a bit, and then spiked significantly again in the early 90s. However, rape and assault steadily increased from the 70s onward until the mid to late 90s. We only saw general decrease in violent crime starting in the 2000s. Here are the violent crime numbers from the 70s to the 2000s. Total and per 100k.

2 hours ago, austinfan said:

Just go BPA. Don't overthink it.

Howie's not going to be able to trade into 2023, you need a top ten pick to pull that off in most drafts.

So if he trades back, it should be to maximize value in 2022, for example if they have 10-15 players in tier 3, and tier 2 dries up by pick #19, then trade back 5-10 spots and pick up a couple more picks - you don't have to use them all - you can package an extra 3rd or 4th with one of your 5ths and target a player who has dropped, for example.

Trust your draft board and your scouts - or get new scouts.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see movement both up and down as the board shakes out.  I also expect that some assets will be moved for 2023 assets. I doubt the Eagles come out of this draft with six or less picks in 2023. 

 

7 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Supervised injection sites and liquor stores is not a direct parallel. If you say you want to decriminalize drugs, I am in support of that... to a certain degree.

I did mention gun rates went up in one of my posts, you missed it.

My initial career path was originally going to be forensic psychology. I've always had an interest in crime. You don't need statistical training to break down crime data lol. This isn't advance mathematics.

My source for increase in violent crime is any statistical crime database. The 1970s was very high in murder(per capita), the 1980s started off high in murder and trailed off a bit, and then spiked significantly again in the early 90s. However, rape and assault steadily increased from the 70s onward until the mid to late 90s. We only saw general decrease in violent crime starting in the 2000s. Here are the violent crime numbers from the 70s to the 2000s. Total and per 100k.

I guess Officer Chauvin is to blame then.  

21 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

*IF* I were the Ravens, I would trade Lamar to the highest bidder and ride with Tyler Huntley

Huntley seems to be a better pass, more accurate(not as strong of an arm) but much much better accuracy wise and reads the defense WAYYYY better

And o ya, also has a really really good set of legs

Thought you didn’t like pac 12 players ?

I can't believe how man idiot hosts on WIP want to give a "Tyreek Hill" package to trade for DK Metcalf and give him $20M a year.

2 hours ago, Bacarty2 said:

One think that keeps getting looked, especially in those Doug years was how bad the division was too. 

The NFC East was probably at an all time low and we could only muster up 7,9,9 etc. 

Good point. The NFCE has been pretty bad over the years

41 minutes ago, austinfan said:

How many PO games have the Chargers won with their "elite" young QB?

First you get into the playoffs, then you try and win some playoff games. Last few seasons:

GB, 2-3 with Rodgers and a team at its peak

SF, 4-2 with Garoppolo

Houston, 1-2 with Watson

Buffalo, 3-3 with Allen

NO, 3-4 with Brees

Dallas, 1-2 with Dak

We know from 2017 anything can happen if you have a good team and make the playoffs, QBs get hot (cold) and teams go on runs (get upset).

 

Herbert was drafted in 2020. Give him time

And before anyone mentions Hurts...

If Hurts had these stats then I'd say give Hurts time too

Year	Team	Games			Passing								Rushing				Sacks		Fumbles
		GP	GS	Record	Comp	Att	Pct	Yards	Avg	TD	Int	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Sck	SckY	Fum	Lost
2020	LAC	15	15	6−9	396	595	66.6	4,336	7.3	31	10	98.3	55	234	4.3	5	32	218	8	1
2021	LAC	17	17	9−8	443	672	65.9	5,014	7.5	38	15	97.7	63	302	4.8	3	31	214	1	1
Career		32	32	15−17	839	1,267	66.2	9,350	7.4	69	25	97.9	118	536	4.5	8	63	432	9	2

But he doesn't

3 minutes ago, Mike030270 said:

Good point. The NFCE has been pretty bad over the years

Herbert was drafted in 2020. Give him time

And before anyone mentions Hurts...

If Hurts had these stats then I'd say give Hurts time too

Year	Team	Games			Passing								Rushing				Sacks		Fumbles
		GP	GS	Record	Comp	Att	Pct	Yards	Avg	TD	Int	Rate	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Sck	SckY	Fum	Lost
2020	LAC	15	15	6−9	396	595	66.6	4,336	7.3	31	10	98.3	55	234	4.3	5	32	218	8	1
2021	LAC	17	17	9−8	443	672	65.9	5,014	7.5	38	15	97.7	63	302	4.8	3	31	214	1	1
Career		32	32	15−17	839	1,267	66.2	9,350	7.4	69	25	97.9	118	536	4.5	8	63	432	9	2

But he doesn't

If Hurts doesn't have those stats, but was 6'5", still athletic, and had a cannon, I'd also say give him time.  But he doesn't.

He has nothing.

Jeremiah explained that it’s nearly impossible to lock in players to teams since the draft can be so random, but he did say its going to be a "lock” that the Birds take an edge rusher and a play maker on offense. He went on to explain that the Eagles are all in on Jalen Hurts, and that a first round QB is out of the question. He also explained that he’s been around the Eagles for many years, and that he believes they need a linebacker, but he doesn’t see them taking one in round 1.

Daniel Jeremiah talked about the Eagles draft philosophy, and his conclusion is that it is very likely the Eagles will trade back at least once. He explained how well he knows Howie Roseman, and that Howie loves to make trades in the first round of the draft. He did so in four out of the last six drafts, so he expects them to move around this year especially with three first round picks. This is why he only locked in two positions in the Eagles in the first round.

https://phlsportsnation.com/2022/04/02/eagles-locked-in-to-take-edge-rusher-and-play-maker/?fbclid=IwAR1Oi9ql1P3TfaDhgqLFnn2KUgKrFW7NgsuyL8AT7klmiQjmIRHl-MZP6Eo

I hate the idea of making 1st round picks with the other 1sts in mind. That's how you wind up redshirting a center for a season or overdrafting a high character guy with physical limitations.

8 minutes ago, greend said:

So just for the record. We went from a running league as being the proven way to win, to a pass happy league as the proven way to win, and now we ant to go back to being a running league, but now we run with our most expensive and more fragile player?  

No. You use what you have and try to get the most out of it.

KC didn't win because of Mahomes, they won b/c of Reid, who won with Smith, but Mahomes allowed him to take it up another notch. Mahomes on most other teams would probably be more like Herbert, a promising young QB who hasn't shown he can win the big game - because with most teams and most HCs, he'd fall consistently short.

QBs get too much credit and too much blame, it's a team game, and having not just talent, but the right mix of talent, and the right HC, and a little luck, is required.

Quick, let's compare Herbert's first 16 starts to Hurts.

58 minutes ago, austinfan said:

How many PO games have the Chargers won with their "elite" young QB?

First you get into the playoffs, then you try and win some playoff games. Last few seasons:

GB, 2-3 with Rodgers and a team at its peak

SF, 4-2 with Garoppolo

Houston, 1-2 with Watson

Buffalo, 3-3 with Allen

NO, 3-4 with Brees

Dallas, 1-2 with Dak

We know from 2017 anything can happen if you have a good team and make the playoffs, QBs get hot (cold) and teams go on runs (get upset).

 

 

35 minutes ago, Sack that QB said:

Supervised injection sites and liquor stores is not a direct parallel. If you say you want to decriminalize drugs, I am in support of that... to a certain degree.

I did mention gun rates went up in one of my posts, you missed it.

My initial career path was originally going to be forensic psychology. I've always had an interest in crime. You don't need statistical training to break down crime data lol. This isn't advance mathematics.

My source for increase in violent crime is any statistical crime database. The 1970s was very high in murder(per capita), the 1980s started off high in murder and trailed off a bit, and then spiked significantly again in the early 90s. However, rape and assault steadily increased from the 70s onward until the mid to late 90s. We only saw general decrease in violent crime starting in the 2000s. Here are the violent crime numbers from the 70s to the 2000s. Total and per 100k.

Of course you need statistical analysis, you can't simply infer causality from eyeballing data.

Empirical social science is pretty advanced mathematics, because you have numerous issues that have to be addressed, noisy (and often biased) data, left out variable error, multi-collinearity, etc. How a study is structured can bias its results.

Which is why it becomes a dialogue between "experts," there is no one study that can provide a definitive answer to these questions. So if you're really interested, you need to commit to reading hundreds of articles and books, see why people disagree, and see which questions have yet to be resolved.

Every change in policy becomes an experiment, and only decades later do we obtain enough data to know if the "experiment" made things better or worse, and for whom.