1 hour ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Where did I claim that you said the defense was good against top 12-15 QBs? You said that the defense performed good against bad offenses and against good defenses and the offense did the same thing.  That just isn't true for the offense. 

What i said was the defense and offense were both not good against playoff teams for the majority of the time. The offense averaged 19 points vs  playoff teams. And at least 5 tds were garbage time scores that makes 19 skewed (Dallas down 41-14, td vs KC down 41-23 with 11 seconds left, td vs raiders down 19 with 3.5 mins left and 15 points down 31-0 with 12 mins remaining). Those garbage time tds makes it go from 13 points to 19 points  

so i ask you is averaging 19 points on offense vs. playoff teams good? Answer should be no. The jets against 8 playoff teams averaged 18.7 ppg. Lions on offense averaged 21 ppg vs. playoff teams. Now I’ll wait for your deflection to the defense where no one said they were any good or off the hook either. Again both the defense being bad vs. playoff teams and offense being bad vs  playoff teams can BOTH be true  

 

Irregardless of Hurts, building an offense around a running game and OL and a ball control passing offense makes sense in today's NFL.

The cost of QBs and top WRs in effect cripples the rest of your team - and good defenses can take away any WR (a good DC can take away two weapons, forcing you to win with the other three - if they can gain separation against man to man coverage by average defenders). So an offense where you can plug in a good QB (not a $40+M guy who's very good but not HOF quality), and have five solid options (RB who can catch, 3 decent WRs, TE and a H-back) on every play is more sustainable and less vulnerable to injuries. One reason Pitt and NE sustained success is they could create good WRs with their scheme and let them walk when they got too expensive.

As defenses go smaller and faster, RBs and WRs who are physical and quick (Samuel, Chase) have more value b/c they can break big plays on underneath routes, while a power back can pushes 220 lb LBs and nickel CBs. As teams have moved to the big play passing offense, defenses have moved to stifle those offenses.

7 minutes ago, Swoop said:

3 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Irregardless of Hurts, building an offense around a running game and OL and a ball control passing offense makes sense in today's NFL.

The cost of QBs and top WRs in effect cripples the rest of your team - and good defenses can take away any WR (a good DC can take away two weapons, forcing you to win with the other three - if they can gain separation against man to man coverage by average defenders). So an offense where you can plug in a good QB (not a $40+M guy who's very good but not HOF quality), and have five solid options (RB who can catch, 3 decent WRs, TE and a H-back) on every play is more sustainable and less vulnerable to injuries. One reason Pitt and NE sustained success is they could create good WRs with their scheme and let them walk when they got too expensive.

As defenses go smaller and faster, RBs and WRs who are physical and quick (Samuel, Chase) have more value b/c they can break big plays on underneath routes, while a power back can pushes 220 lb LBs and nickel CBs. As teams have moved to the big play passing offense, defenses have moved to stifle those offenses.

Except the Eagles already said they want to pass more and build the offense around a passing attack 

Geez no one said you couldn’t have a great running attack and use it to your advantage. However you are going to be really challenged to win a super bowl or consistently beating playoff teams finishing 29th in the league in passing and unable to get the passing game going against playoff teams outside of 1 of 6 games against playoff teams. (Please don’t give me the Dallas game we threw for a bunch of yards cause majority of them came after we got down 28-7– offense was as much of an issue as defense. Heck defense outscored the offense thru 2.5 quarters that game) 

 

29 minutes ago, Swoop said:

 

27 minutes ago, Swoop said:

 

24 minutes ago, Swoop said:

 

 

 

These would be funnier if not so damned true. 

36 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Irregardless of Hurts, building an offense around a running game and OL and a ball control passing offense makes sense in today's NFL.

Building around a running QB seems to never be the answer, ever in the NFL.

25 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Except the Eagles already said they want to pass more and build the offense around a passing attack 

Shhhh... you are in the spin zone.

Building a run game makes sense as defenses go smaller…but only if you can build a play action passing game from it

Typically QB's have crazy stats high stats when they play with a terrible defense, not barely average 200 yards per game.

39 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

 

 

 

 

 

These would be funnier if not so damned true. 

Sad isn't it?

Not sure if anyone posted, but profootballnetwork just had us taking Lloyd and Corral in their mock

15 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

Typically QB's have crazy stats high stats when they play with a terrible defense, not barely average 200 yards per game.

Yup.  Massive accumulation of garbage time stats... generally.  

13 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.  Massive accumulation of garbage time stats... generally.  

Ie. deshaun Watson 👀

2 hours ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

My problem is  we will make every excuse for the Eagles offense not playing well against playoff  teams. But the Eagles defense we will just say they suck and rag on them without hesitation and blame them as the only culprit. while excusing the same issues that occurred on offense vs. playoff teams early season then re-emerged in a playoff game 

honestly this is very similar to what everyone did with making excuses up for Carson Wentz and the offense. It could just be the defense sucks against playoff teams and the offense wasn’t very good against playoff teams either. Both of those things can be true. 

Both the offense and defense suck. It isn’t one or the other.  But it is a team sport, it’s not just one player.  It is a dearth of talent, created by Howie’s inconsistency in who has his ear at any given moment.  

Last year, Harris stunk, McLeod stunk, Nelson stunk, Singleton stunk, Taylor stunk, and Barnett stunk. Edwards was mediocre because he needs better talent to be good.  Cox was unimpressive and Hargrave disappeared.  Sweat was inconsistent and somewhat unavailable and Williams was inconsistent when given a chance. Jackson improved as the season progressed but is still a bit lost as a rotational DE.  Johnson and Avery were damned close to invisible.  Hopefully Reddick is the solution.  So basically passing grade to Maddox and only top of the class grade to Slay.

Last year, Hurts displayed some real weaknesses and some occasional strengths.  Second year, so he should have been better.  Smith shows real promise.  Was pressed off his routes sometimes.  Goedert was a bit disappointing. Drops too many passes. Some of his routes were poorly run.  Sanders was inconsistent, has regressed in the passing game.  Gainwell shows flashes but makes a bunch of mistakes that he gets away with.  Scott was Scott.  A rotational back. Howard, when not injured was great within his limitations. Short ride there.  Huntley should look to the USFL or XFL if he wants to continue to play football.  Watkins hands are still an issue at times.  His route running has a ways to go.  Ward barely saw the field and still produced more than Reagor when he did.  That’s sad.  I guess JJAW blocked well.  Same with Stoll.  But their positions should include receptions.  Mailata has blocks where you say, Wow but still makes mistakes from time to time.  Seumalo didn’t last long. Dickerson was very green when he got in and has a ways to go on pass pro (probably contributed to the running focus). Kelce probably would love to have a full season with the same Gs. Driscoll has a ways to go as a G.  Especially in pass pro. Not sure he has the junk in the trunk to anchor at G.  Pretty mediocre.  Herbig?  Can be a road grader but is still a phone booth guy.  Not surprised he has seen any offers on a no cost, right of first refusal tender. Lane was inconsistent and not available but the old Lane when he wasn’t.  Clarke?  Ugh.   Overall, kind of smelly. Not exactly the premier OL they are made out to be.  They can be but the gel wasn’t there last year.  The skill players.  Sure not worth the investment (2 firsts, four seconds). 

And Sisposs?  I can’t believe they didn’t try out punters and replace him.  Overall, the STs were poor enough that some were calling for Clay’s job. I figure Clay is on borrowed time.  

So, yes, the Eagles did not fare well against the top teams in the league.  It is surprising they did as well as they did, as devoid of top talent as they are.  Of course, Howie in his brilliance brought some of them back.   

Frankly,  even if they nail the draft, I could see the Eagles taking a step back. Then again, Gowan, Vincent and McPhearson may wow us.  Taylor may be inspired by White to take the next step.  Seumalo may return to full health and so may Lane.  Pigs may fly too.  

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

 

Irregardless of Hurts, building an offense around a running game and OL and a ball control passing offense makes sense in today's NFL.

 

False.  The NFL is a passing league and nothing is stopping that.

I've been thinking Cine and Davis could be our picks.

 

Winfrey is my top DT , won’t be shocked at all if he goes rd 1 

5 minutes ago, schuy7 said:

I've been thinking Cine and Davis could be our picks.

 

I like Hill more than Cine at 18. More versatile. I wouldn't mind Cine if we happened to trade down but not in the teens.

34 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Both the offense and defense suck. It isn’t one or the other.  But it is a team sport, it’s not just one player.  It is a dearth of talent, created by Howie’s inconsistency in who has his ear at any given moment.  

Last year, Harris stunk, McLeod stunk, Nelson stunk, Singleton stunk, Taylor stunk, and Barnett stunk. Edwards was mediocre because he needs better talent to be good.  Cox was unimpressive and Hargrave disappeared.  Sweat was inconsistent and somewhat unavailable and Williams was inconsistent when given a chance. Jackson improved as the season progressed but is still a bit lost as a rotational DE.  Johnson and Avery were damned close to invisible.  Hopefully Reddick is the solution.  So basically passing grade to Maddox and only top of the class grade to Slay.

Last year, Hurts displayed some real weaknesses and some occasional strengths.  Second year, so he should have been better.  Smith shows real promise.  Was pressed off his routes sometimes.  Goedert was a bit disappointing. Drops too many passes. Some of his routes were poorly run.  Sanders was inconsistent, has regressed in the passing game.  Gainwell shows flashes but makes a bunch of mistakes that he gets away with.  Scott was Scott.  A rotational back. Howard, when not injured was great within his limitations. Short ride there.  Huntley should look to the USFL or XFL if he wants to continue to play football.  Watkins hands are still an issue at times.  His route running has a ways to go.  Ward barely saw the field and still produced more than Reagor when he did.  That’s sad.  I guess JJAW blocked well.  Same with Stoll.  But their positions should include receptions.  Mailata has blocks where you say, Wow but still makes mistakes from time to time.  Seumalo didn’t last long. Dickerson was very green when he got in and has a ways to go on pass pro (probably contributed to the running focus). Kelce probably would love to have a full season with the same Gs. Driscoll has a ways to go as a G.  Especially in pass pro. Not sure he has the junk in the trunk to anchor at G.  Pretty mediocre.  Herbig?  Can be a road grader but is still a phone booth guy.  Not surprised he has seen any offers on a no cost, right of first refusal tender. Lane was inconsistent and not available but the old Lane when he wasn’t.  Clarke?  Ugh.   Overall, kind of smelly. Not exactly the premier OL they are made out to be.  They can be but the gel wasn’t there last year.  The skill players.  Sure not worth the investment (2 firsts, four seconds). 

And Sisposs?  I can’t believe they didn’t try out punters and replace him.  Overall, the STs were poor enough that some were calling for Clay’s job. I figure Clay is on borrowed time.  

So, yes, the Eagles did not fare well against the top teams in the league.  It is surprising they did as well as they did, as devoid of top talent as they are.  Of course, Howie in his brilliance brought some of them back.   

Frankly,  even if they nail the draft, I could see the Eagles taking a step back. Then again, Gowan, Vincent and McPhearson may wow us.  Taylor may be inspired by White to take the next step.  Seumalo may return to full health and so may Lane.  Pigs may fly too.  

I don’t disagree with a lot of what you wrote there. Also very much agree they should look into punters because sisposs was not good at the end of the year. 

That said, the offense was not good against playoff teams just like the defense was bad against them. Even with everything you said, I’d argue the offense has more talent and given more high end draft investments over the past couple years by howie to not find themselves down 31-0, 28-7, 33-14 where they do little for long stretches. Obviously some of that is the defense can’t stop anyone. However the offense was also stagnant for large stretches of those games, or had a turnover that hurt them or a bad penalty. 

like you said it’s a team sport. it’s why against playoff teams neither were good. However everyone on this blog and board knows the defense stunk. We don’t make excuses for them because we know they lacked good enough talent and they weren’t very good.  the offense was bad in those games against playoff teams as well, but the excuses get made nearly every time the offense wasn’t good in those games. For example, get the offense was still learning a new system and personnel at the beginning of the year so it explains a poor offensive performance. Didn’t the defense get an entirely new scheme as well? Didn’t the defense need time to adjust to the system and personnel in this games too? So when the defense was as bad at the end it was well we knew that. Meanwhile the offense we make excuses when it was the same thing that happened 10 weeks prior. (Not you) so some on here are willing to make the excuse for them meanwhile the same excuse could be applied to the defense but they don’t wanna do it. So goes to we are willing to make excuses for one side of the ball but not the other. 

I really don’t care for the excuse of either offense or defense. both when they played playoff teams weren’t very good. That’s the truth. Both seemed to thrive on lesser teams with very small glimpses against better opponents. 

 

Lmao

17 minutes ago, Swoop said:

Not sure if anyone posted, but profootballnetwork just had us taking Lloyd and Corral in their mock

 I think the trade with the Saints was the smokescreen, for a team supposedly in love with their QB, they sure are doing a lot of "due diligence” on QB’s in this draft.