15 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Both the offense and defense suck. It isn’t one or the other.  But it is a team sport, it’s not just one player.  It is a dearth of talent, created by Howie’s inconsistency in who has his ear at any given moment.  

Last year, Harris stunk, McLeod stunk, Nelson stunk, Singleton stunk, Taylor stunk, and Barnett stunk. Edwards was mediocre because he needs better talent to be good.  Cox was unimpressive and Hargrave disappeared.  Sweat was inconsistent and somewhat unavailable and Williams was inconsistent when given a chance. Jackson improved as the season progressed but is still a bit lost as a rotational DE.  Johnson and Avery were damned close to invisible.  Hopefully Reddick is the solution.  So basically passing grade to Maddox and only top of the class grade to Slay.

Last year, Hurts displayed some real weaknesses and some occasional strengths.  Second year, so he should have been better.  Smith shows real promise.  Was pressed off his routes sometimes.  Goedert was a bit disappointing. Drops too many passes. Some of his routes were poorly run.  Sanders was inconsistent, has regressed in the passing game.  Gainwell shows flashes but makes a bunch of mistakes that he gets away with.  Scott was Scott.  A rotational back. Howard, when not injured was great within his limitations. Short ride there.  Huntley should look to the USFL or XFL if he wants to continue to play football.  Watkins hands are still an issue at times.  His route running has a ways to go.  Ward barely saw the field and still produced more than Reagor when he did.  That’s sad.  I guess JJAW blocked well.  Same with Stoll.  But their positions should include receptions.  Mailata has blocks where you say, Wow but still makes mistakes from time to time.  Seumalo didn’t last long. Dickerson was very green when he got in and has a ways to go on pass pro (probably contributed to the running focus). Kelce probably would love to have a full season with the same Gs. Driscoll has a ways to go as a G.  Especially in pass pro. Not sure he has the junk in the trunk to anchor at G.  Pretty mediocre.  Herbig?  Can be a road grader but is still a phone booth guy.  Not surprised he has seen any offers on a no cost, right of first refusal tender. Lane was inconsistent and not available but the old Lane when he wasn’t.  Clarke?  Ugh.   Overall, kind of smelly. Not exactly the premier OL they are made out to be.  They can be but the gel wasn’t there last year.  The skill players.  Sure not worth the investment (2 firsts, four seconds). 

And Sisposs?  I can’t believe they didn’t try out punters and replace him.  Overall, the STs were poor enough that some were calling for Clay’s job. I figure Clay is on borrowed time.  

So, yes, the Eagles did not fare well against the top teams in the league.  It is surprising they did as well as they did, as devoid of top talent as they are.  Of course, Howie in his brilliance brought some of them back.   

Frankly,  even if they nail the draft, I could see the Eagles taking a step back. Then again, Gowan, Vincent and McPhearson may wow us.  Taylor may be inspired by White to take the next step.  Seumalo may return to full health and so may Lane.  Pigs may fly too.  

Think you're being a bit pessimistic on the offense, they managed to be 10th in weighted DVOA. That's hard to do with a below average offense. The defense on the other hand . . .

There's lots of room for improvement, Mailata, Dickerson in pass protection, Seumalo upgrade at RG, I think you underestimate Driscoll, he's still learning RG, Herbig lost weight and got more agile, still a phone booth guy but a bigger booth, Lane when he returned was top Lane. Smith and Watkins have a lot of room to improve, Goedert needs to be more consistent catching the ball, but might be the best two way TE in football, Stoll simply wasn't used as a receiver, see him in the Celek/Lewis role. Gainwell is learning, Sanders, no idea what happened to his hands. Need more weapons, especially a young power back and a H-back and an upgrade over Pascal. But you can do that in the 3rd to 5th rounds.

The defense is a bigger issue, Sweat and Williams are fine in a rotation, Hargrave is solid but he's not the lead dog, Cox mailed it in. Graham will help but they need to draft 2-3 linemen.

White and Reddick add speed to LB, Taylor needs to get stronger and more durable, but more competition and depth is required.

Harris is a stopgap, they need to draft DBs, given they play a lot of zone, less a shutdown CB than some safeties who can run and cover and CB who can cover underneath and tackle.

They did bring in a lot of lottery ticket DBs, guys with questions but NFL athleticism. That's better than marginal athletes who are limited players, both as depth and for STs.

6 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

I just dont see a world where they dont grab a DE rd1

I hope they do.  But if Hutchinson, Thibodeaux, Walker and Johnson are all gone by 15 I could see them looking elsewhere.  Depends on how much they believe in Karlaftis or the faith they have in Ojabo's recovery I guess.

13 hours ago, DEagle7 said:

Eagles get Hamilton (yay!) then Pickett (boo!)

Still my gut feeling. Hasnt changed even with the Saints trade. 

Just now, DeathByEagle said:

Still my gut feeling. Hasnt changed even with the Saints trade. 

In that mock, we probably leave with Davis & Hamilton...which is a Home Run IMO.

53 minutes ago, Cliftoma said:

Watson is going in the 1st.  He was the best WR at the Senior Bowl then tore it up at the Combine.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is the Eagles pick at 18.  

Both him and Williams look like Eagles picks.. Williams people will argue is hurt and Watson a reach. Fits the narrative!

That said I think Williams is way, way better than Watson.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

In that mock, we probably leave with Davis & Hamilton...which is a Home Run IMO.

Oh that would be a great round 1, just not my gut feeling on what will happen. 

7 minutes ago, DeathByEagle said:

Still my gut feeling. Hasnt changed even with the Saints trade. 

 More fear than anything. Maybe they draft a QB but it won't be Pickett. 

6 minutes ago, IINorthStar said:

 More fear than anything. Maybe they draft a QB but it won't be Pickett. 

So we wasted a Dinner on him? 😏

27 minutes ago, RLC said:

Because none of those teams have 1st year coaches and job security. 

And a great way to get fired is to spend a premium pick on a likely at best career backup 

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

And a great way to get fired is to spend a premium pick on a likely at best career backup 

At least one member of the class will be a good starter. It's just unclear which one...so that's why teams will take shots.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

At least one member of the class will be a good starter. It's just unclear which one...so that's why teams will take shots.

At most one member of this class will be a good starter.

2020:  Burrow and Herbert, but both heads and shoulders above this group, Tua is more the same quality but he did go #6

2019:  maybe Murray

2018:  Allen

2017:  Mahomes, Watson???

2016:  Goff & Wentz both crashed and burned

2015:  none

2014:  none

2013:  none

14 minutes ago, RLC said:

At least one member of the class will be a good starter. It's just unclear which one...so that's why teams will take shots.

No. Teams hope there will be at least one.

2010: None. Bradford being the best.

2013: None. Glennon/Smith being the best.

2015: Depends if you define Winston as a "good starter”. Otherwise, none.

2019: Murray is the only one but he was the consensus #1 overall pick.

Theres also no sure fire day 1 starters this year. So a HC trying to save his job with a QB that won’t be ready until year 2 or 3 should just save the time and quit. The only ones that should be drafting a guy like Willis is Tomlin who isn’t going anywhere. 

16 minutes ago, RLC said:

At least one member of the class will be a good starter. It's just unclear which one...so that's why teams will take shots.

Eh this I'm not sure about. Even way more sure-fire prospects flame out in the first.  I do think teams will roll the dice on some of these guys anyway because a few of them have traits that could develop and QB is such a sought after position. Just think all of em have a pretty high bust potential as well. 

1 hour ago, ToastJenkins said:

I just dont see a world where they dont grab a DE rd1

IMO, Derek Barnett coming back killed DE in round 1.

15 minutes ago, austinfan said:

At most one member of this class will be a good starter.

2020:  Burrow and Herbert, but both heads and shoulders above this group, Tua is more the same quality but he did go #6

2019:  maybe Murray

2018:  Allen

2017:  Mahomes, Watson???

2016:  Goff & Wentz both crashed and burned

2015:  none

2014:  none

2013:  none

If NFL teams looked at it the way you do there wouldn’t have been 33 QBs drafted in the first round over the past 10 years.  Every NFL team knows the odds of first round QBs panning out is 20% or less, yet they keep getting drafted early.

It’s money, money, money.  Whether the player is worthy of the draft slot is almost secondary to the chance they’ll hit.  The second tier of available NFL QBs costs $20M per year and more — Jimmy G, Mayfield, and Wentz.  Drafting a QB at less than 1/3 of that cost is the way to go.  Even if he flames out like Johnny Football — just cut bait after 2 years at minimal financial toll.

57 minutes ago, Infam said:

Both him and Williams look like Eagles picks.. Williams people will argue is hurt and Watson a reach. Fits the narrative!

That said I think Williams is way, way better than Watson.

Williams is one trick pony who may have lost his one trick.  Acls aren't that big of deal these days but you never know.  I would rather take the physical specimen that can do it all in Watson. 

I think the whole competition knock is just well kind of stupid. Watson would have been a player no matter where he went to college.  He put that to rest at the Senior Bowl where he dominated.  His testing at the combine puts him in the top percentile for WRs in many categories.  Apart from that, some of the best WRs in the history of the game have come from small schools (Moss/Marshall, Rice/Miss Valley State, TO/UT Chattanooga). 

Don’t want anything notre dame

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Think you're being a bit pessimistic on the offense, they managed to be 10th in weighted DVOA. That's hard to do with a below average offense. The defense on the other hand . . .

There's lots of room for improvement, Mailata, Dickerson in pass protection, Seumalo upgrade at RG, I think you underestimate Driscoll, he's still learning RG, Herbig lost weight and got more agile, still a phone booth guy but a bigger booth, Lane when he returned was top Lane. Smith and Watkins have a lot of room to improve, Goedert needs to be more consistent catching the ball, but might be the best two way TE in football, Stoll simply wasn't used as a receiver, see him in the Celek/Lewis role. Gainwell is learning, Sanders, no idea what happened to his hands. Need more weapons, especially a young power back and a H-back and an upgrade over Pascal. But you can do that in the 3rd to 5th rounds.

The defense is a bigger issue, Sweat and Williams are fine in a rotation, Hargrave is solid but he's not the lead dog, Cox mailed it in. Graham will help but they need to draft 2-3 linemen.

White and Reddick add speed to LB, Taylor needs to get stronger and more durable, but more competition and depth is required.

Harris is a stopgap, they need to draft DBs, given they play a lot of zone, less a shutdown CB than some safeties who can run and cover and CB who can cover underneath and tackle.

They did bring in a lot of lottery ticket DBs, guys with questions but NFL athleticism. That's better than marginal athletes who are limited players, both as depth and for STs.

Other than what I said about Hurts, and you have questioned his ability to read defenses quickly enough, you pretty much mirrored what I said about the offense.  (On Hurts, I see you trying to be optimistic and get development from a reasonably talented young player but I see a bit too much Mike McMahon in him, that by the time he sees the player open, the defense has a chance to react.)

DVOA is a stat.  Like most stats, its meaning can be manipulated and doesn’t tell the whole story. Heck, you can’t find a more data driven business, except maybe lobbyists and economists, than the insurance  industry.  I understand stat driven measurements and their limitations.

I like that you are so optimistic.  But I don’t think I am pessimistic. More pragmatic.  Entering into the draft of year two of a three year rebuild. Hoping that this is the year that Howie doesn’t get cute and try to outsmart everyone the first two days.  I really wish he would draft Day 2 like he drafts Day 3 and that he has a good UDFA run this year.  
 

 

21 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

That isn't what happened with the offense.  Once they got passed the early season phase of trying to constantly pass the ball and only run with the QB in the first half of games and found their identity they started to play well on offense.  Jalen had some good games against some good defenses.  He also had a bad game against a bad Giants defense.  

 

 

Correct. Once we stopped trying to pass the ball with our QB who is terrible at throwing, and started running the ball with our QB who is only good at running, we were able to have more success against bad teams with our stellar offensive line. 
 

Stupid coaches always trying to get QBs to throw the football, when it’s obvious that offensive success directly correlates to QBs running the ball. Good coaches play to their players’ strengths, they don’t try to find better players. Sheesh

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

At most one member of this class will be a good starter.

2020:  Burrow and Herbert, but both heads and shoulders above this group, Tua is more the same quality but he did go #6

2019:  maybe Murray

2018:  Allen

2017:  Mahomes, Watson???

2016:  Goff & Wentz both crashed and burned

2015:  none

2014:  none

2013:  none

No one knows for sure but Pickett and Ridder in college have already ran offenses with more NFL concepts, than Hurts, and every QB taken last season except for Lance (one season)  and Mills because he played at Stanford. 
 

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

At most one member of this class will be a good starter.

2020:  Burrow and Herbert, but both heads and shoulders above this group, Tua is more the same quality but he did go #6

2019:  maybe Murray

2018:  Allen

2017:  Mahomes, Watson???

2016:  Goff & Wentz both crashed and burned

2015:  none

2014:  none

2013:  none

The hyperbole is starting to get ridiculous. 2019 NFL MVP Lamar Jackson is not even a "good starter”? Jimmy Garoppolo from the 2014 draft is not a good starter? 2016’s Dak Prescott is not a good starter? 2014’s Derek Carr is not a good starter? 

How many All-Pros are required before the player sheds the title of not good?

 

7 minutes ago, blindside said:

Correct. Once we stopped trying to pass the ball with our QB who is terrible at throwing, and started running the ball with our QB who is only good at running, we were able to have more success against bad teams with our stellar offensive line. 
 

Stupid coaches always trying to get QBs to throw the football, when it’s obvious that offensive success directly correlates to QBs running the ball. Good coaches play to their players’ strengths, they don’t try to find better players. Sheesh

 

Saints and Broncos had bad defenses? 

3 hours ago, Cliftoma said:

Watson is going in the 1st.  He was the best WR at the Senior Bowl then tore it up at the Combine.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is the Eagles pick at 18.  

They could trade back a few and get him if he's their target.

52 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Other than what I said about Hurts, and you have questioned his ability to read defenses quickly enough, you pretty much mirrored what I said about the offense.  (On Hurts, I see you trying to be optimistic and get development from a reasonably talented young player but I see a bit too much Mike McMahon in him, that by the time he sees the player open, the defense has a chance to react.)

DVOA is a stat.  Like most stats, its meaning can be manipulated and doesn’t tell the whole story. Heck, you can’t find a more data driven business, except maybe lobbyists and economists, than the insurance  industry.  I understand stat driven measurements and their limitations.

I like that you are so optimistic.  But I don’t think I am pessimistic. More pragmatic.  Entering into the draft of year two of a three year rebuild. Hoping that this is the year that Howie doesn’t get cute and try to outsmart everyone the first two days.  I really wish he would draft Day 2 like he drafts Day 3 and that he has a good UDFA run this year. 

My point is the offense was pretty decent last year with a lot of youth learning on the job, and a new HC/OC figuring out what they have.

The big improvement on teams is usually not from FAs or the draft, but 2nd and 3rd year players stepping up, most rookies don't start, and the ones that do, usually break into the lineup in the second half of the season. So I look at the draft more as depth and rotation players, having both Smith and Dickerson start last year was a plus (though Dickerson was due to injury), Williams' usage is more typical.

Guys to watch:  Gainwell, Watkins, Stoll, Awosika, Toth, Jackson, Williams, Taylor, Stevens, McPhearson, Gowan, Scott, Vincent, McCain, Cachere.

Not all will pan out, but usually 3-4 will step up with a full offseason, weight work, improved technique, etc. Tyre Jackson would have been my breakout candidate if he hadn't got hurt.

52 minutes ago, Aerolithe_Lion said:

The hyperbole is starting to get ridiculous. 2019 NFL MVP Lamar Jackson is not even a "good starter”? Jimmy Garoppolo from the 2014 draft is not a good starter? 2016’s Dak Prescott is not a good starter? 2014’s Derek Carr is not a good starter? 

How many All-Pros are required before the player sheds the title of not good?

We were talking about players going in the 1st rd. Especially the top 15 (before the Eagles). Teams reach but usually whiff.

Dak was 4th rd, Jackson was the last pick of the first round, Carr was #36, Garoppolo was #62. Just shows that if you don't think a QB's a sure thing, gamble later in the draft.