3 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

It's a shame that Hurts wasn't the centerpiece of the 2021 team in the latter half of the season when they won most of their games. Really too bad that Sirianni didn't let Jalen continue the sterling play he exhibited in his first 5 games or so. He would probably have won the NFC.

 

 

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Hurts played significant role in the offense in the latter half of the season.  You hit your head on something and think that was Minshew playing? 

4 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Why did you post an article that was published 3 weeks before Minshew was traded from the Jaguars as some sort of evidence that he didn't request a trade? lol

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/08/28/jaguars-trading-gardner-minshew-eagles/5634761001/

Sources confirmed that Minshew requested a trade to have a better shot at competing for a starting job. 

 

 

As for why I think Minshew might become disgruntled?  Because he wanted out of Jacksonville when it was made clear he wouldn't be starting there, he tried to ask for the starting job after the Jets game and was flatout told no so if he is heading into this season as the backup again I'd be making an educated guess that he will want to be traded somewhere else.  

 

I said it just before and I'll say it again...Minshews best chance at being a starter is right here.

Honestly, I find this whole Hurts vs. Minshew debate is a bit like debating which one of your 2 sisters you want to take to the prom.

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Why did you post an article that was published 3 weeks before Minshew was traded from the Jaguars as some sort of evidence that he didn't request a trade? lol

 

https://www.jacksonville.com/story/sports/nfl/2021/08/28/jaguars-trading-gardner-minshew-eagles/5634761001/

Sources confirmed that Minshew requested a trade to have a better shot at competing for a starting job. 

 

 

As for why I think Minshew might become disgruntled?  Because he wanted out of Jacksonville when it was made clear he wouldn't be starting there, he tried to ask for the starting job after the Jets game and was flatout told no so if he is heading into this season as the backup again I'd be making an educated guess that he will want to be traded somewhere else.  

 

Good find on the request for trade. My google search did not find that article.

So, you made up the "becoming disgruntled" part. 

5 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

 

Hurts played significant role in the offense in the latter half of the season.  You hit your head on something and think that was Minshew playing? 

I'd like to find Hurts' passing stats in the first 3 quarters of each game or while the outcome was in doubt. I don't care enough to make much of an effort. I recall he was the king of the 4th quarter when the other team was playing prevent.

7 minutes ago, eglz1 said:

I'd like to find Hurts' passing stats in the first 3 quarters of each game. I don't care enough to make much of an effort. I recall he was the king of the 4th quarter when the other team was playing prevent.

Jalen Hurts Career Passing Touchdown Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

There are many Passing TDs when trailing and some TDs later in the season when leading.

There are many weeks where Hurts did not pass for a TD.

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Well if Vin is saying it lmao 

 

Wish he was legit.

47 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

He has that it factor that is needed for winning.  Hurts probably has a little bit of a stronger arm.  And yeah the ability to run makes him a much more dynamic player with more upside than what Minshew offers.  The more Hurts develops as a passer the wider the gap will become between those two.  

Right now Hurts is trying to close that gap.... 

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Wasn't denying that guys gravitate towards Hurts.  Just pointing out that Minshew has it too.  

Minshew doesn't have a huge arm but he plays and understands the position of QB better than Hurts.  I don't see Minshew trying to be a class clown.  He's an individual who isn't trying to conform to what people think a QB is.  Look at the emotion shared between Minshew and his dad after the Jets game and tell me that's a class clown.  The guy loves football.  So does Hurts.

I don't see where Hurts is suddenly going to become more accurate and anything more than a 1-read QB.  He's had the best coaching from Bama to OU and now with the Eagles. 

Let me also point out that I'm not saying that Minshew is the answer.  I think both Hurts and Minshew will have long high end back up careers in the NFL.  Hurts will be a great backup because he can come off the bench and use his legs to help teams whereas Minshew appears to be able to be a plug and play QB who can get you completions when needed.

 

I think it's ridiculous the bizarre level of expectations that some of you put on Hurts at 22 and 23 years old to be a finished product at QB.   He is a young developing QB.  Every single report out there about him tell of his tremendous work ethic, his extreme coachability and his drive to work to improve.   That is exactly the type of player that is going to improve.  It isn't physical limitations holding him back.  It's the physical ability that gives him his higher potential than Minshew.  The areas of his game that he needs to improve at are exactly the areas where he can improve at.  You can improve your accuracy, he has already improved his accuracy and he can continue to improve his accuracy.  

 

This season is going to be the first time since high school that he has played under the same offensive coordinator for consecutive seasons.  Consistency of coaching is so important for young QBs.  He now has a full season under his belt.  A full season in this offense with these other young offensive players who were also mostly inexperienced that he was playing with.  They too will now have a year of experience under their belts in this league, in this offense and with this QB.  The more you do anything in life the more you will improve with experience.  That's the same thing for a young QB.  The more that offense and the plays become second nature.  You go through a full NFL season facing pro defenses and the different looks they throw at you, the different pre-snap looks they throw at you.  That more you see that the more you can identify that.  It's why the great QBs in this league are better in their 30s when they are past their physical prime.  

 

I fully expect him to take a substantial step forward in his 3rd year.  If he doesn't or takes a step back then you know he's hit his ceiling.  But I don't think we have seen that ceiling yet, not even close.  It is clear the areas of his game where he can improve at that if he is able to do it will make him substantially better.  And none of that is unrealistic.  

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

At that price I'm fine with us missing out. 

Yeah he got pretty good money.  I'm surprised we were in on that.  Should be saving that for Mathieu anyway. 

Draft a CB, sign Mathieu. Good to go in the secondary. 

15 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

I said it just before and I'll say it again...Minshews best chance at being a starter is right here.

Honestly, I find this whole Hurts vs. Minshew debate is a bit like debating which one of your 2 sisters you want to take to the prom.

 

And what happens when Hurts remains the starter.  Does Minshew request a trade?  That's what I'm theorizing could happen which is why I think it's possible that Minshew is not on the team this season.  

7 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Jalen Hurts Career Passing Touchdown Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

There are many Passing TDs when trailing and some TDs later in the season when leading.

There are many weeks where Hurts did not pass for a TD.

Thanks

14 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Good find on the request for trade. My google search did not find that article.

So, you made up the "becoming disgruntled" part. 

 

I didn't make anything up.  You said if Minshew is traded it's because we drafted a QB.  I said if Minshew got traded it'd probably be a scenario because he had become disgruntled given how he requested a trade from Jacksonville when it was made clear he was not going to be starting.  

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

I didn't make anything up.  You said if Minshew is traded it's because we drafted a QB.  I said if Minshew got traded it'd probably be a scenario because he had become disgruntled given how he requested a trade from Jacksonville when it was made clear he was not going to be starting.  

You said Minshew IS becoming disgruntled and a distraction. There is no evidence of that. So, you made it up.

10 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

Jalen Hurts Career Passing Touchdown Log | Pro-Football-Reference.com

There are many Passing TDs when trailing and some TDs later in the season when leading.

There are many weeks where Hurts did not pass for a TD.

 

Note to Hurts: It is not good for you to throw TD passes when you are trailing and it is not good for you throw TD passes when you are leading.  

Just now, CouchKing said:

You said Minshew IS becoming disgruntled and a distraction. There is no evidence of that. So, you made it up.

 

You misread what I was saying.  

3 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Note to Hurts: It is not good for you to throw TD passes when you are trailing and it is not good for you throw TD passes when you are leading.

They are giving context to his already weak numbers. He threw quite a few of his touchdowns when the game didn't matter anymore. There was a game or two where he didn't even break 100 yards passing until the other team gave up 

Quote

Teams Dropping Wyatt From Boards Over Repeated Domestic Violence

Multiple NFL teams told WalterFootball.com since that they have dropped Wyatt off their boards because of repeated incidents of domestic violence. In February of 2020, Wyatt was arrested for a "family violence" incident. Team sources say that their private investigators found out about three additional domestic violence incidents. With that in his background, sources from multiple teams say Wyatt is off their draft board.

"He's off our board," said an AFC general manager whose team needs defensive tackle help. "If teams are okay with the character, I think he goes between No. 21-32. He has a lot of red flags."

An NFC director of player personnel from a team that needs defensive tackle help as well said Wyatt was off their board because of the domestic violence issues. Surprisingly, Wyatt was not suspended or kicked off the team at Georgia by head coach Kirby Smart despite the incidents. Many teams are digging into the issues, while Wyatt has taken pre-draft visits with the Vikings, Packers, Chiefs, Eagles, Jets and Raiders.

 

https://walterfootball.com/nflhotpress/article/Teams-Dropping-Wyatt-From-Boards-Over-Repeated-Domestic-Violence

11 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Note to Hurts: It is not good for you to throw TD passes when you are trailing and it is not good for you throw TD passes when you are leading.  

All TDs are good. No one said they were bad.

The complaint was that Hurts throws junk time TDs against prevent defenses. This is supported by some of the data.

Look at week 4 versus KC. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 42-23 is suspect.

Look at week 7 versus LVR. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 33-14 is suspect.

Overall: 12 of 16 TD Passes looked to be against solid D.

1 minute ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

And what happens when Hurts remains the starter.  Does Minshew request a trade?  That's what I'm theorizing could happen which is why I think it's possible that Minshew is not on the team this season.  

Where does he go? Who wants him as a starter? I say his best chances are here because there's the outside chance we trade Hurts to move up to draft a QB. That would likely make Minshew the starter this year. There's also a chance Hurts gets injured if he keeps running the ball or ends up hanging in the pocket too long trying to make more than 1 read. Lastly there is no guarantee that Hurts hasn't hit his wall or takes a step back. Hurts is far from touchable.

I think if there was a team who was willing to offer us some value for Minshew we would trade him.

10 minutes ago, Shalodeep said:

They are giving context to his already weak numbers. He threw quite a few of his touchdowns when the game didn't matter anymore. There was a game or two where he didn't even break 100 yards passing until the other team gave up 

 

What TDs specifically did he throw when the game didn't matter anymore?  The only ones I can see from that last were the TDs in the Dallas game, the one at the end of the KC game and second TD pass in the Raiders game.  

 

8 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

All TDs are good. No one said they were bad.

The complaint was that Hurts throws junk time TDs against prevent defenses. This is supported by some of the data.

Look at week 4 versus KC. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 42-23 is suspect.

Look at week 7 versus LVR. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 33-14 is suspect.

Overall: 12 of 16 TD Passes looked to be against solid D.

 

Your own data outlined in your posts supports that the overwhelming majority of his TD passes did not come at times when the game was over.  

7 minutes ago, Thing3 said:

Where does he go? Who wants him as a starter? I say his best chances are here because there's the outside chance we trade Hurts to move up to draft a QB. That would likely make Minshew the starter this year. There's also a chance Hurts gets injured if he keeps running the ball or ends up hanging in the pocket too long trying to make more than 1 read. Lastly there is no guarantee that Hurts hasn't hit his wall or takes a step back. Hurts is far from touchable.

I think if there was a team who was willing to offer us some value for Minshew we would trade him.

 

The draft is in two weeks.  The Eagles aren't going to draft a QB in the draft.  In 2 weeks we will know for sure.  When we are in August and heading close to the start of the season I suspect Minshew will request a trade when it is clear to him he won't be the starter just as he did in Jacksonville when it was clear to him that he wasn't the starter there.  

6 minutes ago, CouchKing said:

All TDs are good. No one said they were bad.

The complaint was that Hurts throws junk time TDs against prevent defenses. This is supported by some of the data.

Look at week 4 versus KC. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 42-23 is suspect.

Look at week 7 versus LVR. Early TD pass. Good. Late touchdown pass when down 33-14 is suspect.

Overall: 12 of 16 TD Passes looked to be against solid D.

Stop with your sound logic. Hurts good. Minshew bad. 

 

9 hours ago, mattmcginley7 said:

Yeah, this is not applicable to today's NFL. And easy for him to say with Jerry Rice

Except they won 2 SB's before him.

8 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Your own data outlined in your posts supports that the overwhelming majority of his TD passes did not come at times when the game was over.  

25% of his touchdowns came when the game didn't matter anymore lol the man's game was pretty pedestrian. Nice back up QB and back up RB. 

Just now, RememberTheKoy said:

 

The draft is in two weeks.  The Eagles aren't going to draft a QB in the draft.  In 2 weeks we will know for sure.  When we are in August and heading close to the start of the season I suspect Minshew will request a trade when it is clear to him he won't be the starter just as he did in Jacksonville when it was clear to him that he wasn't the starter there.  

That's why I said an outside chance we draft a QB and trade Hurts. And how did requesting a trade work out for Minshew last time? I believe Hurts is still on shaky ground here and that offers Minshew a better chance at starting then being traded somewhere else. But we shall see.....