8 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Hurts isn't going this year.  I think he's the QB to start the year.  I just don't think they find out enough about Ridder to justify taking him.  Let's say Ridder shows potential. Does he really have more upside that the top 5 prospects in 2023? If the Eagles knew they were moving on from Hurts, I think that drafting Ridder would make sense in that you could give him the year to see how it goes.  I just don't think you would know whether he has the potential to be a good enough starter.  

I'm saying in my draft scenario, not IRL.

1 minute ago, RLC said:

This might be the most wild take of draft season

Wild as in...completely incorrect? Agreed.

14 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Baseball has the Mendoza Line, QB's should have the 'Hurts Line'

Patent Pending. 

Lol, nobody would fall below the Hurts Line tho

13 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I'm not surprised that there are people here who will defend Hurts to the point of explaning that the reason the coaching staff decided after week 7, that we should shift from a predominantly throwing offense to a predominantly run first offense had nothing to do with Hurts and or his limited passing ability. I am surprised you think it's because he was listening to the fans/critics and or press about running the ball. 

 

Just know denying Hurts was the issue and the reason why we shifted the offense flies in the face of actual evidence. 

• Hurts does circles and or bails from clean pockets when WR's are running open- (Signs that he has trouble going through his preogressions and or issues with reading defenses post snap adjustments, and knowing what to do with the ball.)
• Hurts is late throwing the ball to Wide open WR's, has major issues with anticipatory throws. 

 

 

Carry on.

 

 

Tell me you don't like black QBs without telling me you don't like them.

5 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I'm not surprised that there are people here who will defend Hurts to the point of explaning that the reason the coaching staff decided after week 7, that we should shift from a predominantly throwing offense to a predominantly run first offense had nothing to do with Hurts and or his limited passing ability. I am surprised you think it's because he was listening to the fans/critics and or press about running the ball. 

 

Just know denying Hurts was the issue and the reason why we shifted the offense flies in the face of actual evidence. 

• Hurts does circles and or bails from clean pockets when WR's are running open- (Signs that he has trouble going through his preogressions and or issues with reading defenses post snap adjustments, and knowing what to do with the ball.)
• Hurts is late throwing the ball to Wide open WR's, has major issues with anticipatory throws. 

 

 

Carry on.

 

 

All I am saying is that going to a running game was because of a lot of other factors, not solely because of Hurts or this preconceived notion that it is because he can't throw.

Were there issues with Hurts passing that led to this? Yes. But it is not all because of his passing, because if it was they would have benched him early and started Flacco, Minshew or even attempted to get another QB under center.

11 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

Does he really have more upside that the top 5 prospects in 2023?

Two issues.  The 2023 guys could all flame out.  Secondly, if we are what we are, we finish as the 7th - 9th seed, with a pick in the mid teens, and there is no guarantee the Saints pick is top 10.  We had 3 shots at a top 10 pick last year, best we got was 15, and you have 4 other teams with two first rounders.

This is the sweet spot to get a QB, no sure fire guy, teams at the very top all have QB's they are giving a shot this year, they will all drop, and won't have to give up extra resources, just stay pat and draft the guy you want.

Just now, pallidrone said:

All I am saying is that going to a running game was because of a lot of other factors, not solely because of Hurts or this preconceived notion that it is because he can't throw.

Were there issues with Hurts passing that led to this? Yes. But it is not all because of his passing, because if it was they would have benched him early and started Flacco, Minshew or even attempted to get another QB under center.

If you wish to say, we shifted our offense due to a myriad of factors such as

due to the Oline's ability to run block,

the avail weapons we had to run the ball

 

AND 

 

Hurts's passing issues which were all on full display all season long and highlighted in the postseason against Tampa, when they took away the run game and Forced Hurts to be a passer. 

 

I am ok with this, but in Context Hurts, issues are the same they were coming out of college. He hasn't really progressed at all, and I dont see where some people are suggesting he can and will this year. I see a placeholder QB because we dont have our QB of the future on this team at time. 

7 minutes ago, RLC said:

This might be the most wild take of draft season

He seems to make a distinction between being very strong (JD can't be moved) and powerful (but lacks the ability to move others)... I disagree, but that's the context.

7 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yeah... it was that he forgot.  Not that he was brought in to run a passing offense, then found out his QB couldn't.

 

You know there's been this amazing consistency under Lurie with hiring HCs that 'forget' to run the ball.  It's almost like the organizational plan is to be a passing offense... almost at all costs.

Pederson forgot to run the ball for the first 2 games of 2017. He then figured it out after that Chiefs game, they became more balanced and won a Super Bowl. I believe that coaches get caught up in their own heads sometimes and it takes them a while to figure things out. 

Lurie wants to win period. I don't think there is any organizational plan in place to force one thing or another. I believe that is just a bunch of nonsense that makes for great radio and clickbait articles but is not the reality of the situation. 

4 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Hurts's passing issues which were all on full display all season long and highlighted in the postseason against Tampa, when they took away the run game and Forced Hurts to be a passer. 

Yep.  The Eagles were not able to mask Hurts issues any longer, Tampa Bay sold out to stop the run because they already knew that Hurts arm could not beat them.  They had film telling them that, they had the Eagles offensive philosophy telling them that.

1 minute ago, pallidrone said:

All I am saying is that going to a running game was because of a lot of other factors, not solely because of Hurts or this preconceived notion that it is because he can't throw.

Were there issues with Hurts passing that led to this? Yes. But it is not all because of his passing, because if it was they would have benched him early and started Flacco, Minshew or even attempted to get another QB under center.

What factors exactly? 

There's not a pre-conceived notion, it's indisputable at this point. I implore you to go and look at his throwing charts. Here, I'll find it for you:

The left side of the field is unusable. The Tampa playoff game:

They were smart and took away the right side. He couldn't/wouldn't throw to the middle. He's great at throwing behind the LOS....but cmon man, it's not some wacky idea that he's not a good passer. 

The definition of insanity is continuously trying to use common sense and stats to change the opinion of the Hurts Huggers.

Give up. Let them live in their delusional world.

2 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

If you wish to say, we shifted our offense due to a myriad of factors such as

due to the Oline's ability to run block,

the avail weapons we had to run the ball

 

AND 

 

Hurts's passing issues which were all on full display all season long and highlighted in the postseason against Tampa, when they took away the run game and Forced Hurts to be a passer. 

 

I am ok with this, but in Context Hurts, issues are the same they were coming out of college. He hasn't really progressed at all, and I dont see where some people are suggesting he can and will this year. I see a placeholder QB because we dont have our QB of the future on this team at time. 

That is basically what I am saying. Are there problems with Hurts? yes. He was a project coming out of college and the team knew that it would take a few years to coach him up.

Them going to a run-first offense was not solely because of Hurts. It was a bunch of different reasons why and I do not believe it was ever because they did not believe in his ability to pass the ball.

6 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Pederson forgot to run the ball for the first 2 games of 2017. He then figured it out after that Chiefs game, they became more balanced and won a Super Bowl.

And in the playoffs, the better Foles played, the better the offense functioned and the more points they scored.

4 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

What factors exactly? 

There's not a pre-conceived notion, it's indisputable at this point. I implore you to go and look at his throwing charts. Here, I'll find it for you:

The left side of the field is unusable. The Tampa playoff game:

They were smart and took away the right side. He couldn't/wouldn't throw to the middle. He's great at throwing behind the LOS....but cmon man, it's not some wacky idea that he's not a good passer. 

Here is Mac Jones passing chart in his first playoff game.

 

 

8 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Here is Mac Jones passing chart in his first playoff game.

Here we go again, comparing rookies to second year players.  

Why are you not comparing Hurts to other players from his draft class that made the playoffs ??

But seeing as you want to compare them

Mac Jones also had a higher QBR than Hurts, you know, the stat that takes running into account.

5 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

Here is Mac Jones passing chart in his first playoff game.

 

 

Mac Jones was a rookie. And, his passing chart on the year:

Is Mac Jones left handed?

32 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

I'd be shocked if Booth goes top-15. I think there's a better shot that Thibodeaux falls out of the top 10 than Booth going at 15.

Very interesting trade down scenario depending on how the board falls. If I did this move, I'd wanna use the Saints 3rd to move up from 48 or 51. Really great shot at getting 4 good starters.

Brugler and others have said he projects better to a man heavy scheme because he struggled in space. So I'm not sure why he thinks Booth is a fit in a zone heavy scheme.  I really only think there's 2 very good 1st round prospects, Stingley and Sauce.  McDuffie would be but even if you thought his arm length wasn't an issue he only had 2 INTs in college and 11 PDs.  That's not great production.  I like Elam who was productive and had great testing numbers.  

Burrow's chart is what we'd like to see. Yes he's a number one overall pick, but look at the passes behind the LOS compared to Hurts. That really tells it all. 

1 minute ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Is Mac Jones left handed?

Lol he's not, but he does like that left side

  The passing offense in the 2nd half of the season was a remedial, High School offense with Kelce setting the protections and Siri or the OC setting the primary receiver, basically the opposite of what Strong, Ridder, and Pickett did in college with Strong doing both himself. 
 The passing concepts were all very simple, the pass catchers were schemed open towards Hurts strengths, it’s not so much that he didn’t pass to open receivers, or didn’t see them, they just weren’t supposed to get the ball. 
 Passing the ball isn’t his biggest issue in terms of playing QB, his biggest problem is he puts his eyes down to watch the rush, and sometimes a perceived rush when he leaves a clean pocket. That split second he puts his eyes down, then looks up, everything has changed, he can’t see past his linemen when his eyes come back, so in comes the circle run trying to find his targeted receiver. This is why he held the ball and had the most time to throw out of any QB in the NFL. 

3 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Lol he's not, but he does like that left side

Mind bottling

25 minutes ago, downundermike said:

1) It limited the defense's time on the field that was ranked second to last in sacks and first overall in completion percentage for opposing QBs.

Eagles still finished bottom 1/3 in the league in TOP.  You can also keep the defense off the field by converting 3rd downs and sustaining drives passing.  Green Bay was #1 in TOP, they were 18th in rushing attempts.

2) It helped limit the number of penalties that the team was giving up on offense.

Wouldn't the offense being on the field increase the opportunities for penalties ??

3) It played to the strengths of the offense line.

The line is also very good at pass blocking, but the QB kept bailing clean pockets.

4) Going to a run-heavy game worked, especially against lesser opponents. Even against the Chargers, which they eventually lost to, it keep their offense off the field for large portions of the game.

Yes, another indictment of Hurts.  We even had to stay run heavy against the bottom 5 of the NFL.

I really think you guys forget how completely awful the Eagle's defense was last year.

Eagles defense ranked 7th in the NFL in yards per play.  Eagles defense ranked 10th in yards per game. Eagles defense ranked 19th in points allowed.  Problem is, the offense did not sustain enough drives to keep them off the field.

My entire point is that they became a run-heavy team because it worked and they stayed that way because it worked. 

Again if this was all about Hurts, they would have started Minshew and changed the game plan with him. That Jets game was the PERFECT time to do it. They could have gone pass-heavy, ran Siri's offense that he supposedly had to can because of Hurts and they had a bye week after that. If things worked better with Minshew, they could have just IR'ed Hurts and just run with him.

They did not do any of that and in fact, ran the most times in that Jets game versus any other game of the year. Why?

NOTE : It should be noted that Pass Blocking causes more False starts because you have to move backward, versus Run Blocking which causes more holding calls because you are firing forward. They had a difficult time with false starts, especially at some of the worst times. That is why going to a run-heavy offense helped limit the penalties that were piling up early. 

6 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Burrow's chart is what we'd like to see. Yes he's a number one overall pick, but look at the passes behind the LOS compared to Hurts. That really tells it all. 

Yep.  Half of Hurts completions were behind the LOS, and 2/3 within 5 yards of the LOS.

1 minute ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Mind bottling

Boggling? Or have I been saying it wrong my entire life