4 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Finding those types of guys is a bigger deal than I think most fans give credit for.  Especially in the mid-late rounds. Gives your team a high floor and keeps salaries reasonable so you have flexibility for free agency signings.

But overall you can't take the next step without nailing a few high end stud players in the process too, which has been our problem. Too many early round disappointments. 

This is the reason we're able to stay at least competitive in our down years rather than turning into bottom feeders like the Lions/Jags is the fact that we hit on these mid-late picks a lot. Unfortunately that also prevents us from getting early picks and we tend to whiff on picks in the back half of the 1st.

19 minutes ago, DEagle7 said:

Finding those types of guys is a bigger deal than I think most fans give credit for.  Especially in the mid-late rounds. Gives your team a high floor and keeps salaries reasonable so you have flexibility for free agency signings.

But overall you can't take the next step without nailing a few high end stud players in the process too, which has been our problem. Too many early round disappointments. 

I think being negative in 4 of 6 years from 2014 to 2019 isn’t ideal. 2016 and 2018 were good in that window. However the other 4 years were negative CAVOE (-37). To your point drafts that are going to be 10 and 11 drafts ago after this years’ draft class where they got Cox, Lane, Ertz and poyer (who they cut and another team switched him to safety) dramatically boosts them.  From 2014 to 2021 the eagles are -19.8. In 2012 and 2013 they are 95.5. I’m guessing that -19.8 over 2014-2021 window is likely bottom half of the league. I’m guessing 2012-13 it’s likely top 10

Also their record for this 10 year window (they mention) puts them at 14th (82-78-1). Which is basically middle of the league. Thankfully we had 2017 cause the other 9 years surrounding that were 69-75-1

10 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Eagles dont play anyone that’s playing in Europe 

they play them all? except the bucs

 

Ah yes you're right, we play them but at the linc.

 

bollox

2 minutes ago, Utebird said:

Also according to this Cowboys are 4th best.

I don't think anyone would argue that the Cowboys don't draft well.

But having to trade Cooper because of Zeke's contract, and then getting almost zero return when other similar WRs are bringing in truckloads of picks is a great way to offset some really good drafts.  

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Me either.  We are getting credit for guys who had success after they left.

It doesn't necessarily mean we missed on the pick, we still made a good pick. Just means we suck at developing players and/or utilizing them properly which is a separate issue. This has been especially bad at DB.

1 minute ago, bitbased said:

It doesn't necessarily mean we missed on the pick, we still made a good pick. Just means we suck at developing players and/or utilizing them properly which is a separate issue. This has been especially bad at DB.

It also means it is a bad pick.  If guys succeed somewhere else, especially at a different position, we are putting a square peg in a round hole.  If a guy is a stud at X, and we try to make him do Y, we should not have drafted him, so it is a bad pick.

41 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

Not sure if this has been posted, but ESPN ranks Eagles as the sixth-best drafting team since 2012.

NFL draft -- Which teams have gotten the best value since 2012? We rank all 32 (espn.com)

Howie gets a lot of crap for missing some 1st rd picks (but only 31% of 1st rd picks sign 2nd contracts with their drafting team), but overall he gets good value from his drafts - the last few years he just didn't have a lot of picks due to the Wentz trade and some other deals trying to keep the window open. He's also above average when it comes to draft trades as we've seen the last couple years.

8 minutes ago, jsb235 said:

I don't think anyone would argue that the Cowboys don't draft well.

But having to trade Cooper because of Zeke's contract, and then getting almost zero return when other similar WRs are bringing in truckloads of picks is a great way to offset some really good drafts.  

Drafting well is a good thing but when those players reach their top potential one can't pay them all and if one didnt win any championships when one had those drafted players then🤷‍♂️

Cowboys have drafted well and what do they have to show for it???

Same with Packers, they have drafted well yet when was the last time they didn't choke???

4 minutes ago, downundermike said:

It also means it is a bad pick.  If guys succeed somewhere else, especially at a different position, we are putting a square peg in a round hole.  If a guy is a stud at X, and we try to make him do Y, we should not have drafted him, so it is a bad pick.

Or it may mean the coordinators aren't doing a good job of communicating with the scouts, or in the case of Schwartz, simply didn't like rookies and pushed to keep veterans ahead of young players who were waived and picked up.

It's a tough balance, you want the BPA, but you also want players who are good fits who your coaches will actually play.

I think it's easier for Howie to work with Sirianni and Gannon (who was a scout for a couple years) who are hands on, so have a better feel for prospects, than Peddy and Schwartz, who were more "field generals" who weren't as comfortable with developing and playing young players. Note that the Eagles were more successful with OL, because Stoutland has a good sense of which players he can coach up.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Howie gets a lot of crap for missing some 1st rd picks (but only 31% of 1st rd picks sign 2nd contracts with their drafting team), but overall he gets good value from his drafts - the last few years he just didn't have a lot of picks due to the Wentz trade and some other deals trying to keep the window open. He's also above average when it comes to draft trades as we've seen the last couple years.

Ok but how many of those first round picks dont get a second contract with another or drafted team ever and are just  out of the league?

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

the last few years he just didn't have a lot of picks due to the Wentz trade and some other deals trying to keep the window open. 

Do you really believe the BS you spew sometimes ??  Since Howie got his job back from Chip, the Eagles have had 45 picks over 6 years.  That averages 7.5 picks per year.  Minus 2018/19 with the capital used to get Wentz, the Eagles have had 8, 8, 10 and 9 picks.  Taking out comp picks, every team should have 7 picks in every draft.  The Eagles have had more than enough picks.

One advantage the Eagles have right now is Lurie is on the same page as Howie when it comes to rebuilding, despite going 9-8 and making the playoffs. A lot of owners would be pushing to win now and make a big move to go deeper in the playoffs. One key to a successful rebuild is knowing when you're actually good enough - generally teams can swing between 6-10 and 10-6 (these days 7-10 and 10-7?) due simply to a few (un) lucky bounces. So not being fooled by a good season build on a weak schedule is something that should make Eagle fans feel better about this draft.

That combination of job security and a realistic owner allowed Howie to make the NO trade, one less top pick for a 2022 playoff run, but an extra 1st in 2023 and 2nd in 2024 give you more assets to make moves when the team is ready. Same way Howie can avoid reaching for a position of need, accumulate more picks and gamble on upside later in the draft.

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Or it may mean the coordinators aren't doing a good job of communicating with the scouts, or in the case of Schwartz, simply didn't like rookies and pushed to keep veterans ahead of young players who were waived and picked up.

It's a tough balance, you want the BPA, but you also want players who are good fits who your coaches will actually play.

I think it's easier for Howie to work with Sirianni and Gannon (who was a scout for a couple years) who are hands on, so have a better feel for prospects, than Peddy and Schwartz, who were more "field generals" who weren't as comfortable with developing and playing young players. Note that the Eagles were more successful with OL, because Stoutland has a good sense of which players he can coach up.

If the players are not working out and having success elsewhere, that is a Howie problem.  You can try and shift the blame to the co ordinators, but the GM has the final say, and it is his job to overrule and do what is best for the team.  

Always gotta shift the blame, but there is one constant in all of the failures, and that is Howie Roseman.

Just now, downundermike said:

Do you really believe the BS you spew sometimes ??  Since Howie got his job back from Chip, the Eagles have had 45 picks over 6 years.  That averages 7.5 picks per year.  Minus 2018/19 with the capital used to get Wentz, the Eagles have had 8, 8, 10 and 9 picks.  Taking out comp picks, every team should have 7 picks in every draft.  The Eagles have had more than enough picks.

Those picks have primarily come the last two years, Howie hedged his bets in 2020 and was in full rebuild mode last year.  19 picks the last two years, and 10 going into this draft.

26 picks from 2016-19, but only 9 in the top 100 (out of a normal 12).  Wentz, a couple other deals to "win now."

ESPN weighed drafts by the value of draft position (the right way to do it).  Eagle pick draft value was well below average from 2016-19, close to average in 2020 (later picks in the 1st and 3rd rds) and above average in 2021 and again in 2022.

1 hour ago, DEagle7 said:

I get not wanting to trade for him given the state of the team, but arguing that Deebo isn't that good is just silly. 

Agreed.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

Need to do what the Steelers do with WRs, draft a bunch of mid-round guys, develop them, then let them walk.

The one thing not to do - get enamored with size/speed with WRs, the top guys are often quicker than fast, plus route runners with sticky hands and body control. And you can steal those guy if you do your homework.

All we need is the Steelers' scouts and GM to be able to FIND those WRs.  This group sucks at it.

How far up can the Eagles get by trading #15, 101, and 154?

55 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

Getting a lot of credit for Jordan Poyer sort of distorts the impact to THIS team.

Also think the negative impact from Reagor hasn't fully matured in this model.  Same for Mailata on the other side, though.

Credit for drafting Jordan Poyer?   Nah, if you can't figure out that he should stay and play... that's a failure, not an asset.  He didn't do a thing to help this team.   These types of rankings are usually skewed.  It needs to focus on what the value to the team that drafted them, not across the league.  What good was drafting Raheem Brock?  0.  

What value was bringing in Villaneuva, only to cut him and then having him go to Pittsburgh and developing into a pretty nice LT?   0.  

And Josh Sweat is the best Day 3 Steal?  Nah.  That's clearly Mailata.  Not even a debate about it.

20 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Or it may mean the coordinators aren't doing a good job of communicating with the scouts, or in the case of Schwartz, simply didn't like rookies and pushed to keep veterans ahead of young players who were waived and picked up.

It's a tough balance, you want the BPA, but you also want players who are good fits who your coaches will actually play.

I think it's easier for Howie to work with Sirianni and Gannon (who was a scout for a couple years) who are hands on, so have a better feel for prospects, than Peddy and Schwartz, who were more "field generals" who weren't as comfortable with developing and playing young players. Note that the Eagles were more successful with OL, because Stoutland has a good sense of which players he can coach up.

A little quick to make this proclamation, no?

4 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

How far up can the Eagles get by trading #15, 101, and 154?

Sounds like there’s not much of a market for top 10 teams to move down this year so maybe 10?

We don’t need Deebo we have Reagor already 

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

We don’t need Deebo we have Reagor already 

Lol Bacarty would agree with you

Is there someone at 6 any of you guys would be willing to trade up for? I can see the Panthers willing to trade down since they have virtually no picks this year but I'm not sure if there's anyone I'd be willing to spend that much draft capital on.

12 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

How far up can the Eagles get by trading #15, 101, and 154?

12-13 maybe, if there's a willing seller.

1 minute ago, bitbased said:

Is there someone at 6 any of you guys would be willing to trade up for? I can see the Panthers willing to trade down since they have virtually no picks this year but I'm not sure if there's anyone I'd be willing to spend that much draft capital on.

Sauce. Johnson. Maybe Thibodeaux.

Eagles 2018 class is one of their best in the new millennium. Premium talents at LT, TE, and maybe DE. Rock solid nickel back. And they were able to get a 2nd rounder for the following year.

1 minute ago, Texas Eagle said:

Sounds like there’s not much of a market for top 10 teams to move down this year so maybe 10?

If Thibodeaux or Hamilton falls, I'd do 100% trade those picks to move up.