26 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Going into 2021 I thought he was a top 10 receiver. And if OBJ played a full year with the Rams he probably would have been...or close stats wise. 

You're also compared a 17 game season a 16 game season. 

I dont have OBJ in my top 20 going into 2022, and as I mentioned before, I highly doubt Deebo will be in anyones top 10 after 2022. 

Well both players played 17 game seasons. Odell missed 3 games this past year. And it wasn’t all just the trade. He was out due to his injury from the previous season to start the year (missed 2 games beginning of the year ). 

my point consistently to you the last 2 1/2 years he wasn’t a top 10 wide receiver anymore statistically and he kept getting hurt. Yet you used his injuries as a reason why he hadn’t been. Meanwhile Deebo he gets injured too much to be. That’s hypocritical. He hasn’t been top 10 since 2016. he has not been in the top 10 in receptions, yards or touchdown receptions since 2016. None of those categories. So how are you gonna tell me when Odell Beckham Jr. consistently gets hurt and hasn’t statistically put up top 10 stats that he was top 10 going into 2021? He had it been since 2016 which was 4 years prior. And it wasn’t all baker. He couldn’t stay healthy  

Also if obj played with the rams 17 games they projected out to 57 receptions, 648 yards and 10 tds. Yards per reception 11.3. (Point out he was on pace in a 17 game season with the browns this year for 657 receiving yards on 48 receptions and yards per reception 13.65). He was not going to be top 10. Would he better? Most likely. And before you go but the playoffs. 3 of the 4 games he played was similar to what he has been: 40-70 yards and a game where he looks like he’s going to do well he gets hurt. He played a great game against the niners. The other 3 games were pretty much what he’s become over the last 5 years: gets hurt or 40-70 yards range 

13 minutes ago, downundermike said:

If you take OBJ stats with the Rams and calculate to 17 games, 66 catches for 740 yards.

Deebo had 77 for 1400 in 16 games.

There is no comparison.

If you take just his regular season stats over 17 games it projects out even less than that. He had a great game against the niners. But his other games were similar to what he’s become. 40-70 yards and when he shows a little he gets hurt. 

I think the Deebo Samuel debate is interesting in the larger debate about the rapid increase in WR salaries combined with the continued influx of young, talented WRs in the draft due to the changes in youth and college football. Deebo is obviously a great, unique player. But, if I were a GM, I wouldn't trade for him given all the factors at play.

1. The cost would be similar to Tyreke Hill - no way the 49ers take significantly less

2. You'd have to sign him to a contract with an APY of at least $25 million. Say 4 years, $100mm with half of the guaranteed

3. His style of play (and taking RB snaps) makes him more prone to breaking down sooner than someone like Hill, Adams or Diggs (guys who got paid and he will look to as comps for his deal)

If I were a GM, I'd be loathe to hand ANY WR a contract like this when it seems every draft is going to have 5+ 1st round talents at the position. The most valuable commodity a team can have is a premium player on a rookie contract, so I'd go to the draft for WR. It is notable the organizations moving off these guys (KC, GB) and the ones that are paying (MIA, LV). 

5 minutes ago, vikas83 said:

I think the Deebo Samuel debate is interesting in the larger debate about the rapid increase in WR salaries combined with the continued influx of young, talented WRs in the draft due to the changes in youth and college football. Deebo is obviously a great, unique player. But, if I were a GM, I wouldn't trade for him given all the factors at play.

1. The cost would be similar to Tyreke Hill - no way the 49ers take significantly less

2. You'd have to sign him to a contract with an APY of at least $25 million. Say 4 years, $100mm with half of the guaranteed

3. His style of play (and taking RB snaps) makes him more prone to breaking down sooner than someone like Hill, Adams or Diggs (guys who got paid and he will look to as comps for his deal)

If I were a GM, I'd be loathe to hand ANY WR a contract like this when it seems every draft is going to have 5+ 1st round talents at the position. The most valuable commodity a team can have is a premium player on a rookie contract, so I'd go to the draft for WR. It is notable the organizations moving off these guys (KC, GB) and the ones that are paying (MIA, LV). 

Yep. The only teams making these moves to acquire the guy are all middling to bad teams. Why I fully expect Jets will be the team if Deebo is traded at all. 

46 minutes ago, downundermike said:

So all things done by Howie Roseman.  

And you can offset the 9 out of 12 in the top 100 with 7 in the top 64 when the should have been 8.  Only missing 1 when you made a massive trade up for a QB is not bad.

The problem with those picks is you have good

Sanders, Goedert, 

Then you have the bad

Dillard ( first round pick who was traded up for and his depth only )

JJAWful ( bust and others drafted behind him are doing well in the NFL )

Barnett ( not near worthy of the 14th pick, so bad he could not get a free agent deal from another team )

Sidney Jones ( bust )

Wentz ( huge draft capital and no longer with the team )

 

You can do all the mental gymnastics you want, the only constant in the Eagles problems is Howie Roseman.

I think the bad/poor high draft picks really stand out and help Bring Howies overall grade way down.

Barnett, Jjaw, Jones, Reagor, Hurts really overshadow Goedert, Sanders, Smith and Mailata. 

18 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

1) I dont understand the OBJ conversation. that was LAST YEAR. Literally. 

        1a) you can just "multiply" his stats and think that's what his yearly outcome would be. Offseason, having plays built for you in the off season. Playing garbage teams etc etc

2) I thought OBJ was going to have a GOOD year last year. I didn't think Baker would break his shoulder. I didn't think Stefanski would forget how to call a football game and I doubt ANY ONE here thought the browns would only win 8 games last year

 

There's NOTHING you can tell me to change my mind RIGHT now. Deebo, as it sits, is a 1 hit one, that had a playbook built for him specifically and I DOUBT.. like DOUBTTTTTTTT he puts up anything close to those numbers next year. 

My guess. Deebo - 10 games, 700 yards, 39 catches next year

You said to me he was still a top 10 wide receiver (i know cause i named 15 who were better then). This has been ongoing for the last 3 season. And the reason why I bring that up is because you use injuries for Deebo Samuel to say he is too injury prone be a top 10 wide receiver. But when I brought that up with obj playing in 35 of 48 games from 2018-2020 you dismissed that and still claimed him as top 10. Furthermore his stats when healthy over that three year period never came close to what deebo did last year for him to be justified as still a top 10 WR.

I don’t care what the hell you think about Deebo Samuel. My point is it’s funny you will use things against somebody (Deebo) you don’t like but when it’s somebody you do like and other people use the same argument you’re using with Deebo you dismiss it.

Just because the 49ers altered their offense in the second half of the season doesn't mean he didn't play well as a WR. First half of the year when he had a whopping 6 rushing attempts in 8 games he went 49/882 which is 18 YPR. Averaging over 100 yards per game with (I'm assuming) the top YPR in the league.

I love the aggression (minus the punches thrown). Is this concerning to anyone?

2 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

I love the aggression (minus the punches thrown). Is this concerning to anyone?

I'm really really warming to the Pickens in the 1st idea...if they trade down.  Mentioned the same thing the other day.  Maybe his nastiness would rub off on the rest of the WR.

I frankly think he meant "not that they take him anyway” in the sense he didn’t know one way or the other if he was there. But media likes a story  

1 minute ago, Texas Eagle said:

I love the aggression (minus the punches thrown). Is this concerning to anyone?

Nope, it’s a physical game, he’ll tone it down at the next level, get him an Cine on the same team and TC will look like the UFC. 

8 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

I love the aggression (minus the punches thrown). Is this concerning to anyone?

After watching the full video, it looks like the CB held the crap out of him on the play and then punched Pickens in the facemask first when they got into it. Doesn't bother me.

4 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Nope, it’s a physical game, he’ll tone it down at the next level, get him an Cine on the same team and TC will look like the UFC. 

Would LOVE that. Not the UFC part but both of those players.  I want some nastiness on this team.  

20 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

I think the bad/poor high draft picks really stand out and help Bring Howies overall grade way down.

Barnett, Jjaw, Jones, Reagor, Hurts really overshadow Goedert, Sanders, Smith and Mailata. 

Not if winning is your goal - when you build a team, once the draft is over it doesn't matter where the player was picked, only how he plays.

So missing on 1st rd pick but hitting later in the draft doesn't matter, only how often you hit.

10 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So you're just narrowing it down to the years you want to fit your argument. That's fine. 

I'm glad injuries only go in 3 year cycles and we can forget OBJ missed 1,  2, and 2 games at the same time Deebo missed 7, 11, and 5 in college. 

So you know Obj missed 3, 9, 0, 4 and 12 games in the last 5 years. But hey he’s not injury prone playing in 65% of his games the last 5 years (53 of 81). (Let me tell you good chance misses games in 2022 with his current injury).  He’s still top 10 even though he’s just as injury prone in a 5 year window as deebo. But apparently obj has only missed 1,2 and 2. He’s on average in the last 5 years (since he hasn’t been a top 10 WR) missed 5.6 games. Cool fact as well, deebo since coming into the nfl (3 years) on average misses 3.7 games. Obj during that same period of time missing on average missing 4 games. 

 

Deebo came CHEAP
 

 

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I frankly think he meant "not that they take him anyway” in the sense he didn’t know one way or the other if he was there. But media likes a story  

Hard to imagine a scout giving that kind of information away before the draft. Easy to imagine Howie engaging in misdirection.

Though I'm sure Eagles have players off their board (or dropping a tier or two) due to injuries, character concerns and physical requirements (if they are only looking at outside CBs, they might have a length requirement). Stoutland probably nixes a dozen OL he thinks won't be able to execute his blocking schemes, for example.

DAVIS 15
Trade 18 into mid 20's and pick up a 2nd rounder -  Pick mid 20's being Pickens
Then 2nd round go 2 of top S, CB, DE, LB (Brisker, Chanal, Pitre, Troy Anderson, Kyler Gordon, Cross, Bonitto, Paschal, Mafe)

 

12 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I frankly think he meant "not that they take him anyway” in the sense he didn’t know one way or the other if he was there. But media likes a story  

If Schefter is saying something, it's because someone wants it said.  

6 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

So you know Obj missed 3, 9, 0, 4 and 12 games in the last 5 years. But hey he’s not injury prone playing in 65% of his games the last 5 years (53 of 81). (Let me tell you good chance misses games in 2022 with his current injury).  He’s still top 10 even though he’s just as injury prone in a 5 year window as deebo. But apparently obj has only missed 1,2 and 2. He’s on average in the last 5 years (since he hasn’t been a top 10 WR) missed 5.6 games. 

Beckham hasn't been the same player since he broke his ankle.  He's a decent WR but he's not nearly a top 10 WR anymore.  

Trades offered to me:

18 for 32, 34, 2023 4th [DET took Pickett]

34 for 50, 62 [KC took Brisker]

Obviously Thibodeaux falling that far is not most likely. But it was a no brainer pick. Thibodeaux, Cine, Jones, Gordon, Smith, Weatherford, Malone is a heck of a defensive class. And Pierce, White, Woods, Melton ain't shabby either (though Melton being available at 237 is a pipe dream). Probably should have went oline over Weatherford, but he was too good to pass on. And of course....the PUNT GOD.

Just now, NCiggles said:

Beckham hasn't been the same player since he broke his ankle.  He's a decent WR but he's not nearly a top 10 WR anymore.  

Which had been my point for years now. My point in all this is bacarty will kill other players cause of injuries. But odell wasn’t the same player anymore and as injury prone but make excuses why he was still top 10 when he wasn’t. 

20 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You have a weird fetish with me and OBJ. 

But I'll say it again... When Obj was playing, 13, 15, 16 games a year in the pro's, Deebo was missing 1/2 his college games. 

With all that being said, I dont think either of them will stay healthy next year. 

 

 

No I just like to point out your hypocrisy with OBJ missing 12 games since deebo had come into the league and deebo has missed 11. Yet you still considered OBJ still top 10 but when i said he’s too injury prone to be top 10 anymore you decided that wasn’t a worthy argument until deebo then you’ll use the same argument i made to you about obj. Funny how that works  

(also fact obj missed 4 games his rookie season as well with injuries. Then he had two relatively healthy seasons. deebo in 2 of 3 years has missed 1 game or less. Odell in 5 of 8 years has missed 3 or more games. So over 62.5% of his career he’s missed at least 3 weeks)  

great 6-8 years ago obj stayed healthy (rookie year he missed 4 weeks then his best stretch of his career with health— 2 years missed a game then became injury prone). He hasn’t stayed very healthy in much if the last 5 years so he’s basically been deebo during the last 5 years and hasn’t put up a season close to deebo in the last 5. Amazing how he statistically he hasn’t had a obj 2016 or deebo 2021 in the last 5 years and missed 35% of his games but you kept telling all of us he was still top 10. 

25 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I frankly think he meant "not that they take him anyway” in the sense he didn’t know one way or the other if he was there. But media likes a story  

It's pretty obvious what he meant

16 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

And of course....the PUNT GOD.