19 hours ago, Iggles_Phan said:

I don't disagree with the 'great NFL' Qbs part.  But he comes from Alabama and Oklahoma who have EACH put more QBs into the league in the last 5 years than any other school has in the last 10-20.  Oklahoma produced Jackson (1st round pick), Mayfield (#1 overall), Murray (#1 overall) and... Hurts (2nd round pick).   Or for Alabama, Mac Jones (top 20 pick), Tua (top 10 pick) and Hurts (2nd round pick).  

 

Edited: because I screwed up in my memory banks.

Why do you think that is?

It has become harder and harder for the league to find a traditional stand in the pocket, go through your progression and read a defense type of QB. These colleges only have these kids for a couple of years, so they gear their offense towards what they bring to the table, and they emphasize those skills. They don't break them down and teach them the nuances of playing the position. They want to win and win now.

The league had to make a decision. Do they take a chance on a smaller school QB or a weaker conference, where they may have been taught the finer points of being a QB, but never played against the top competition so there is no real tape on how good they are, or do you take a chance on an athlete who played against top competition and won, and hope that you can break him down and teach him the finer points of being a QB? I mean look at USC. How many QBs have failed from that school and they were your traditional in the pocket, read the defense QB.

A prime example of what happens in these big-time schools would be Joe Burrow. He was stuck on the bench behind J.T. Barrett and then they decided to go with Dwayne Haskins over him at QB. That is why he transferred to LSU.

Nobody in their right mind would have EVER taken JT Barrett or Dwayne Haskins over Joe Burrow, but it happened and that was because both Barrett and Haskins were more athletic and were able to act as a one-read QB in the offense, which in their minds allowed them to win more games.

These teams take a chance on players like Mayfield, Murray, Hurts, and Jackson with the hope that they can utilize their running ability while they can still teach them how to play the QB position.

I do not envy what NFL evaluators have to do today with the QB position. In addition to trying to find the right guy, whether that was a small school or weaker conference kid who has all the tools but had never really played against top talent or a guy that played successfully in college against top talent but never learned how to play the position for the NFL, they have to do it with a ton of offseason restrictions which limits the amount of time and practice they can get in.

15 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Yes, because OBJ showed us he could play the majority out of games in college and pros . And while he was doing that, deebo couldn't get through a 13 game season in college

OBJ had a healthy stretch. both in college and in the front Half of the pros. 

While Deebo has never ever ever had a heathly stretch

At this point as I dig into the numbers its almost laughable to compare
 

 

 

Obj had a healthy stretch for 2 seasons as pro. Lol. he missed 4 games as a rookie. Stayed healthy for two and then after that he’s missed 35 % of his games the next 5 season.

 50% of OBJs career he has missed at least a quarter of the season. But hey at least he had a 2 year window where he wasn’t. Epitome of health and model of top 10 WR consistency 7 years ago. So not only did he not stay healthy, his numbers dramatically dropped off. So he wasn’t producing like a top 10 Wr when he was out there (and it wasn’t all baker) and he was hurt frequently over this period of time where you kept telling us he was top 10. Pretty laughable argument by you. 

The numbers don’t support your argument and haven’t in 5 years. Yet you’ll use my argument about Obj to you then apply it to deebo. Laughable 

54 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

I love the aggression (minus the punches thrown). Is this concerning to anyone?

 I love it as long as hes a good teammate in the locker room. If hes a team cancer then no.

Here for fun

 

41 minutes ago, hukdonfoniks said:

 

Deebo came CHEAP
 

 

Took all 7 attempts but I got him cheaper

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Took all 7 attempts but I got him cheaper

Reagor was really thing that made you have to include more picks 

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Reagor was really thing that made you have to include more picks 

Reallor was reagy

3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Reagor was really thing that made you have to include more picks 

Fixed the Eagles. Rebuild is complete 

50 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Not if winning is your goal - when you build a team, once the draft is over it doesn't matter where the player was picked, only how he plays.

So missing on 1st rd pick but hitting later in the draft doesn't matter, only how often you hit.

So much flawed logic in this. I will agree we need good players and dont care where they come from. 

However, when you invest that much capital and have so little to show for it, (meaning you are below par with hitting on players with that capital) it really diminishes your overall talent pool. Because  if your hit rate was slightly above avg in this area, your team would be exponentially better for it. 

 

In simple terms, had we hit on 3 out of the 5 picks used for (Hurts, Reagor, Jjaw, Barnett and Jones) We would have 3 much better players on the team right now and would not need to REFILL those positions by using even more capital- to draft again.

SO it's not just those wasted picks, it's also the picks then used to replace those BAD players so it's those 3 picks (+the other two you missed on out of those 5) + the next 3-5 picks you use still trying to get those players which could go on and on

Just now, LeanMeanGM said:

Fixed the Eagles. Rebuild is complete 

Well if I must be picky, the d-line wasn't addressed.

2 minutes ago, Texas Eagle said:

Well if I must be picky, the d-line wasn't addressed.

Fine I'll sign Clowney 

9 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

You're extremely frustrating with the way your moving the goal posts. 

OBJ played 40 games in college in 3 years. In 4 years deebo played 30

In the first 3 years of pro, OBJ played 43 of 48.  In Deebo's first 3 years 38 of 48

Deebo, never once in his career showed he could stay healthy. If you think these two are on the same plain... that's on you. 

I don’t care what he did in college. In the pros he has not stayed healthy outside of a two year window.  

you are so in denial because you kept telling us the last five years he was top 10. I don’t give a crap what he did the first 3 years because the argument you kept coming up with was he was still top 10 from 2017-2021. We kept telling you the last five years he wasn’t due to being injury prone and decline in play. Odell Beckham Jr. has been as injury prone the last five years as Deebo Samuel and yet you dismissed his injury history and still considered him top 10. Obviously you don’t understand that you for 3-4 years now kept saying odell was STILL top 10 when he wasn’t due to injuries and dismissed the injury notion. Yet you use that argument against deebo. Amazing.   

 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t care what he did in college. In the pros he has not stayed healthy outside of a two year window.  

you are so in denial because you kept telling us the last five years he was top 10. I don’t give a crap what he did the first 3 years because the argument you kept coming up with was he was still top 10 from 2017-2021. We kept telling you the last five years he wasn’t due to being injury prone and decline in play. Odell Beckham Jr. has been as injury prone the last five years as Deebo Samuel and yet you dismissed his injury history and still considered him top 10. Obviously you don’t understand that you for 3-4 years now kept saying odell was STILL top 10 when he wasn’t due to injuries and dismissed it. Yet you use that argument against deebo. Amazing.   

 

Smh. Really got u irritated today, just stop responding or repeating it since he's not willing to change his mind.

5 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I don’t care what he did in college. In the pros he has not stayed healthy outside of a two year window.  

you are so in denial because you kept telling us the last five years he was top 10. I don’t give a crap what he did the first 3 years because the argument you kept coming up with was he was still top 10 from 2017-2021. We kept telling you the last five years he wasn’t due to being injury prone and decline in play. Odell Beckham Jr. has been as injury prone the last five years as Deebo Samuel and yet you dismissed his injury history and still considered him top 10. Obviously you don’t understand that you for 3-4 years now kept saying odell was STILL top 10 when he wasn’t due to injuries and dismissed the injury notion. Yet you use that argument against deebo. Amazing.   

 

This is what he does. And when Deebo has another great year this year, he'll avoid admitting how wrong he was. It's laughable that after a 77 catch 1400+ yard season you wouldn't consider the guy a top 10 WR. Even with his injury concerns. 

6 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

So much flawed logic in this. I will agree we need good players and dont care where they come from. 

However, when you invest that much capital and have so little to show for it, (meaning you are below par with hitting on players with that capital) it really diminishes your overall talent pool. Because  if your hit rate was slightly above avg in this area, your team would be exponentially better for it. 

 

In simple terms, had we hit on 3 out of the 5 picks used for (Hurts, Reagor, Jjaw, Barnett and Jones) We would have 3 much better players on the team right now and would not need to REFILL those positions by using even more capital- to draft again.

SO it's not just those wasted picks, it's also the picks then used to replace those BAD players so it's those 3 picks (+the other two you missed on out of those 5) + the next 3-5 picks you use still trying to get those players which could go on and on

In simple terms, every pick has an estimated value, you can always trade down and get more picks that are less valuable.

Every player has a post-draft value based on actual performance.

You want to maximize the post-draft value you receive from your pre-draft value - how you do it doesn't really matter.

Only 31% of 1st rd picks sign a 2nd contract with the team that drafts them - misses are the norm, not the exception.

Coulda woulda shoulda - if the Queen had balls, she'd be King.

9 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

So much flawed logic in this. I will agree we need good players and dont care where they come from. 

However, when you invest that much capital and have so little to show for it, (meaning you are below par with hitting on players with that capital) it really diminishes your overall talent pool. Because  if your hit rate was slightly above avg in this area, your team would be exponentially better for it. 

 

In simple terms, had we hit on 3 out of the 5 picks used for (Hurts, Reagor, Jjaw, Barnett and Jones) We would have 3 much better players on the team right now and would not need to REFILL those positions by using even more capital- to draft again.

SO it's not just those wasted picks, it's also the picks then used to replace those BAD players so it's those 3 picks (+the other two you missed on out of those 5) + the next 3-5 picks you use still trying to get those players which could go on and on

Thanks for the explanation, Afan is definitely Howie the way he diminishes all failures as there aren't long term effects and the extent of them.

Hmmmmmmm

Just now, NITEF4LL said:

Smh. Really got u irritated today, just stop responding or repeating it since he's not willing to change his mind.

It’s not even about changing his mind. It’s about showing just how ridiculous some of his takes are. he was so in love with OBJ that he dismissed every time when we used the same injury prone reasoning the last 3 years as to why he wasnt top 10 anymore but now applying that argument to deebo. 

11 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

Ok, so lets ignore the first 4 years of each of there careers(moving goal posts), and focus on the bold above. Deebo still doesnt have those 2 years under his belt. and you can argue it was the first 3 years for OBJ. 

At the end of the day... in college and in pros OBJ has shown he could stay healthy. Deebo has done neither. /convo

What Fing planet do you live on? Obj has played in 96 of 129 games in his career. That’s 74.4%. Meanwhile deebo in three years has played 37 of 49 which is 75.5%. 

also deebo played 15 of 16 games in 2019. He played 16 of 17 games in 2021. That’s only 1 less game in those two years than obj in his two year window. So Deebo Samuel 1 out of every 3 years (nfl) Misses multiple games in a season (small sample size). Meanwhile Odell Beckham Jr. 1 out of every 2 seasons in his nfl career misses multiple weeks in a season. 

Unrealistic and no chance Brisker is there at 51, but this is my final mock before next week.

5 minutes ago, Bacarty2 said:

So you want to crown every one hit wonder?

I'm on the wait and see pattern. If Deebo 2021 shows up, yes He's flirting/probably top 10.

If 2015, 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020 Deebo shows up, he's not top 10

He had a decent rookie year but showed flashes. Got hurt his second year, then had a monster 3rd year. I guess we should wait until guys have finished their entire careers before we determine where they fit in rankings? 

If 2021 Deebo shows up he'll be flirting with top 10? Dude was an All Pro this year. I guess you don't consider that much of anything. Weirdo.

8 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

Hmmmmmmm

Trade up from 15 and trade down from 18 seems like the optimal strategy at the moment.

2 hours ago, Utebird said:

Yup, said ravens best day 3 pick was Darren Waller. 

He had a total of 12 receptions with the ravens before blowing up with the raiders 

If anything it should be an indictment on draft failure to draft a guy like waller and let him leave and blow up elsewhere.

Same with poyer.

Not a draft failure but a coaching failure.

2 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

He had a decent rookie year but showed flashes. Got hurt his second year, then had a monster 3rd year. I guess we should wait until guys have finished their entire careers before we determine where they fit in rankings? 

If 2021 Deebo shows up he'll be flirting with top 10? Dude was an All Pro this year. I guess you don't consider that much of anything. Weirdo.

If you wanted to tell me Deebo Samuel is injury prone I wouldn’t have an issue. I tend to think its his style of physicality he plays with that will see him miss some time. Heck I could understand you saying I don’t trust him to be a top 10 wide receiver next year because of the potential injury.

However you can’t tell me for three consecutive years Odell Beckham Jr. is still a top 10 wide receiver when he hasn’t produced like it and has the similar injury concerns the last 5 years and much of his career outside of two seasons 6 and 7 years ago.

27 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

However, when you invest that much capital and have so little to show for it, (meaning you are below par with hitting on players with that capital) it really diminishes your overall talent pool. Because  if your hit rate was slightly above avg in this area, your team would be exponentially better for it. 

Using a #2 and #1 in back to back years should solve the WR problem.  Having to use another #1 after that is a net negative, no matter how good DeVonta ends up being.