8 hours ago, eagle45 said:

My thoughts for the 3 most likely picks for the Eagles:

1. Davis.  I don't think the board breaks this way, but I suspect this is their guy.

2. Olave.  Not their top WR, but I think he's the one they'll pick up if they want a WR with the way the board will break.

3. Karlaftis.  See above, but for DE.

I like Ebiketie more than George. Hall too, though he is a different style player. 

This is why I'm confident about this draft:

"When you look at some of the mistakes that I’ve made personally, it’s because you try to force something,” Roseman said. "You can only do what the board allows you to do. There’s obviously a lot of time between now and the time the first game starts for us to continue to address the needs of this team. We’ll go into the draft, and we’ll follow the board. We have had a lot of discussions — a lot of good discussions — about the players in this draft, and we just have to make sure we take the best players and not look at the draft as just a short-term fix.”

Eagles notes: Howie Roseman on blockbuster draft trade, plugging holes in secondary - The Athletic

 

What I always told my students was to make mistakes, but don't make the same mistakes!  Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Seems Howie has taken that lesson to heart. 2018-2020 was his teaching moment, that you can't force things just because you think you're so close . . . and trust your board.

47 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

I’m already starting to talk myself into Karlaftis. I don’t think he’s bad or anything, but he feels underwhelming. I don’t think he’ll fail, but I don’t think there’s much of a chance he’s a difference-maker either. 

Edge like him can certainly be a foundational piece. 

i have 15 defenders and J Williams for us. That should get us to 18 easily as several OL will certainly go.

i really want a safety rd 1. Huge need and big dropoff after the top 3 imho.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

This is why I'm confident about this draft:

"When you look at some of the mistakes that I’ve made personally, it’s because you try to force something,” Roseman said. "You can only do what the board allows you to do. There’s obviously a lot of time between now and the time the first game starts for us to continue to address the needs of this team. We’ll go into the draft, and we’ll follow the board. We have had a lot of discussions — a lot of good discussions — about the players in this draft, and we just have to make sure we take the best players and not look at the draft as just a short-term fix.”

Eagles notes: Howie Roseman on blockbuster draft trade, plugging holes in secondary - The Athletic

 

What I always told my students was to make mistakes, but don't make the same mistakes!  Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Seems Howie has taken that lesson to heart. 2018-2020 was his teaching moment, that you can't force things just because you think you're so close . . . and trust your board.

And yet you come here and make the same mistakes day after day…

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

This is why I'm confident about this draft:

"When you look at some of the mistakes that I’ve made personally, it’s because you try to force something,” Roseman said. "You can only do what the board allows you to do. There’s obviously a lot of time between now and the time the first game starts for us to continue to address the needs of this team. We’ll go into the draft, and we’ll follow the board. We have had a lot of discussions — a lot of good discussions — about the players in this draft, and we just have to make sure we take the best players and not look at the draft as just a short-term fix.”

Eagles notes: Howie Roseman on blockbuster draft trade, plugging holes in secondary - The Athletic

 

What I always told my students was to make mistakes, but don't make the same mistakes!  Learn from your mistakes and move on.

Seems Howie has taken that lesson to heart. 2018-2020 was his teaching moment, that you can't force things just because you think you're so close . . . and trust your board.

Tell me... how many times has Howie made the same mistakes?  It took THREE years of mistakes for him to learn his lesson, and we are supposed to trust that finally that lesson has sunk in?    You do realize that Howie is great at dropping these little quips about learning and discussions, etc. year after year... and 'short-term fix' is in no way a defense for drafting Reagor, a clearly raw athlete with limited skills in route running and bad hands, over the most polished WR available in the draft in 2020, in Jefferson, who had route running skills, good speed (not known for it, but it was clearly there) and plus hands.   

 

Classic Howie... deflect from the past and promise a better future.   I'm not buying it.  He should have been fired for his mistakes, but he's Lurie's boy, so he's always insulated.

6 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

Has to be one of the worst 1st rounds ever.

And Eagles luckily failed their way into the best pick

9 hours ago, T-1000 said:

Just read a bunch of rumors including one from Dane Brugler than the Jets might take Jermaine Johnson at 4 and they prefer him Kayvon Thibodeaux. Are we calling BS or truth on that one. I thought for sure Johnson would be a possibility in the 9-12 range for a potential Eagles trade up.

His age hurts him. Dont buy him going at 4

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I know of a safety that I would like in round 1, I'm slightly keen on.  

Jeremiah Trotter 2.0?

That would the one reason to not trade down. There’s a decent chance the Eagles will get two players they have first round grades on. 

27 minutes ago, Infam said:

Looks like it. And then teams trade up and four QBs get picked. I’d not even be surprised.

I don't love these QBs but crazier things have happened I guess. 

In general I'd imagine most teams in the second half of the draft (and maybe higher) would love to trade down and gain capital. Not sure it helps us but I'm curious to see the price of moving on draft day. 

I think without a doubt Hall goes in rd 1 , he will never get passed 27 .

I just don't see a QB going high in this draft; the media love the QBs go high trope, but will needy teams take a flawed QB up high just because?  Not sure. The Lions taking Willis at 2 would be a historical Lions move when their roster has so many other holes.  The Giants roster is putrid too.  It doesn't make sense to risk it when you can take better players at other positions.

6 hours ago, The Blackfish said:

Has to be one of the worst 1st rounds ever.

Strangely enough, picks 17-32 turned out a lot better than 1-16

4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I'd be fine with Jamo Williams at 15 and then trading down for multiple day 2 picks, where we go all defense.  If we come away with two 2nds (a 1st or 2nd in 2023) to go along with the two 3rds we already have, I'd be content.  

Yeah, I’ve talked myself into him as well as being probably the "most exciting” pick, even though he won’t be immediately available. We won’t really need him this coming season anyway. The only other picks I’d want at that spot would be Hamilton if he falls, or trading up for Gardner if he magically comes within range. Or maybe a QB like Pickett or Corral. This defense does need lots of help though 

15 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Howie manages up, with the best of them.  Anyone who has worked in the business or sales world, knows the type.  The guy who the boss looks at differently than everyone else in the building.  Because he is able to control the message to the boss and kiss his arse while doing so.  Howie probably negotiated with himself over his own contract.  Slid the contract over to the other side of the table, got up and sat in the other chair.  Signed it, slid it back and then got up and shaked his hands together.  Then went and told Lurie that they got their guy.  

Finally... Howie has 'just missed' a lot this offseason.   Likely had to overpay to get this one, but it's worth it in the end.

11 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Tell me... how many times has Howie made the same mistakes?  It took THREE years of mistakes for him to learn his lesson, and we are supposed to trust that finally that lesson has sunk in?    You do realize that Howie is great at dropping these little quips about learning and discussions, etc. year after year... and 'short-term fix' is in no way a defense for drafting Reagor, a clearly raw athlete with limited skills in route running and bad hands, over the most polished WR available in the draft in 2020, in Jefferson, who had route running skills, good speed (not known for it, but it was clearly there) and plus hands.  

Classic Howie... deflect from the past and promise a better future.   I'm not buying it.  He should have been fired for his mistakes, but he's Lurie's boy, so he's always insulated.

He said the post-SB hangover was a mistake, they succumbed to the temptation of one more trip to the well, in 2020 he hedged his bets that year with 10 draft picks. But come on, winning a SB, with a team where the window was closing, wouldn't you have been tempted to try to get back one more time before the window closed?

The consensus model didn't work as well with Schwartz (didn't like rookies, so they traded/bought veterans for him) and Pederson - because their focus was on NFL ready players who patched holes, not team building. Howie should have overruled them, but hey, they did deliver the first SB victory in Eagles' history. Reagor was the HC lobbying for speed after the finish to 2019 when they had to run a conservative ball control offense b/c of lack of athletes at WR.

They should have fired Pederson after 2019 and blown it up, but that would have been a big leap for Lurie, fire the HC who delivered the SB and then got you back to the playoffs two straight seasons - but it was time to blow it up and Pederson is not the guy I want presiding over a rebuild. So like the Flyers with AV, they doubled down in 2020.  Water under the bridge.

It's much easier drafting for a rebuild with Sirianni (WR coach, OC) and Gannon (scout, DB coach) as well as Stoutland and a number of other assistant coaches with college as well as pro experience and a track record of developing players. There's no pressure to draft for holes (even though every post on this board seems to advocate drafting for need), there's a coaching staff more comfortable with projects, and the personnel guys are back in the saddle.

It's also why I don't care what position they draft, if you're rebuilding, you draft talent and sort it out later.

For all we know, the best player they add by Sunday night will turn out to be a late round pick or UDFA they sign after the draft. Unlikely, but stranger things have happened in the NFL. Mailata may be their best player they've added since Lane, and Kelce was a 6th rd pick.

 

1 minute ago, ManuManu said:

Aww man, that’s what I was hoping for. But now that he said it that’s probably not happening.. 😑

Herbig signed his tender, so he's now tradeable, as well as Dillard.

Driscoll, Awosika, Opeta, Anderson, Toth make Herbig expendable if Seumalo starts at RG.

Reason they'll draft a couple OL:  2023, does Kelce return at 36, Lane is 33, Seumalo is 30 and a UFA.

They can go for projects that need a year in the weight room (and Stoutland's lash) b/c none have to play in 2022.

 

2 hours ago, ManuManu said:

I liked it better a couple of months ago when the strength of the draft was picks 12-20. Doesn’t feel that way anymore, does it?

Feels like we should get a good player at 15, but there’s a giant cliff before 18. 

We really need teams to panic at QB and take them early or trade up with us to get one. 

I think one of the reasons this class suddenly feels top heavy is that there are so many questions. No one has any idea where the qbs go. No one knows how to rank the wrs or defensive linemen. A lot of players have injury issues.

I don't see a cliff at 18. If anything, I have a hard time seeing why Gardner or Hutchinson are considered vastly superior prospects compared to Karlaftis and Elam. 

 

I think it somewhat foolish to expect Kelce to make it thru the year fully. He may defy the odds, but at some point he's headed for a physical breakdown. Still wouldn't draft a centre until round 4 or so though. 

35 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Every team knows this.  So trading down and getting what you want back in the trade, might be tough.  We might have to get creative and trade down for some 3's instead of 2's and/or maybe something else in 2023.  

True.  BUT... if there's a team at 20 that sees their last first round graded prospect sitting there when we're on the clock at 15... we might have a shot at moving back.  Same with 18, because there might be one that slips through if a couple teams go off the reservation and grab QBs too high or there's a quick run on WRs, given the current cost of doing business in the WR market (having that 5th year of control might be valuable to more teams, though more and more players are demanding restructures these days). 

So, to take the optimistic view, the Eagles might be in the sweet spot for deal for those players that slip through the first 14-17 picks.

30 minutes ago, UK Eagle said:

I just don't see a QB going high in this draft; the media love the QBs go high trope, but will needy teams take a flawed QB up high just because?  Not sure. The Lions taking Willis at 2 would be a historical Lions move when their roster has so many other holes.  The Giants roster is putrid too.  It doesn't make sense to risk it when you can take better players at other positions.

Yes, many do.

Jaguars took Bortles at #3.  Bears took Trubisky at #2 (trading up a spot to ensure they got him).  Browns grabbed Mayfield #1.   

I'd say that as prospects go, all 3 of them are likely about on par with Corral, Pickett, and Willis.  I wasn't a believer in any of those 3 pre-draft and haven't been impressed with them post-draft.  QB needy teams, led by desperate GMs make foolish decisions about the QB position.

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

I think it somewhat foolish to expect Kelce to make it thru the year fully. He may defy the odds, but at some point he's headed for a physical breakdown. Still wouldn't draft a centre until round 4 or so though. 

This is not a rebuilding attitude. If a G/C combo guy (I agree that pure centers don't make sense early) is available, that's insurance at both C and both G spots along with Driscoll. So you go BPA, and if the BPA is a lineman, since you're really drafting for 2023/2024, don't sweat it and take him.

The only gaping hole in 2022 might be safety, but that's why they stockpiled DBs who can run last year. Other key need is a power back.

Otherwise they've patched LB, brought back Cox and Barnett and have Graham, brought in Pascal as the possession WR.

Losses from last season are McLeod, Singleton, Ridgeway, Kerrigan, Avery, Nelson. Nelson is the only one who played a major role and he's not exactly irreplaceable.

30 minutes ago, austinfan said:

He said the post-SB hangover was a mistake, they succumbed to the temptation of one more trip to the well, in 2020 he hedged his bets that year with 10 draft picks. But come on, winning a SB, with a team where the window was closing, wouldn't you have been tempted to try to get back one more time before the window closed?

You keep coming back to this as if it's a reasonable defense for gross ineptitude.  It is not.

How do you extend the championship window... by continuing to add GOOD talent.  In the draft, you do it by continuing to take the best player available, because at the end of the day, talent is needed in the NFL to win.  Not by drafting for need and forcing players to step in and play immediately as rookies (which this team never seems to be able to accomplish anyway, even when that's their goal in acquiring the talent).

You don't do it by OVERPAYING for old players that are on the decline, because the decline in the NFL is a downhill ski event... it happens fast and is over quicker than you expect.  Desean was a move to keep the window open?  Nah.  It was Howie trying to right the mistakes of the past.  That never works.  And he overpaid for the contract he wasn't forced to give him and cost us tons of money for basically zero production.  Alshon was a massive problem for this team after 2017.  And they just kept reworking his deal rather than moving on.  Lots and LOTS of mistakes, unnecessary reworked contracts, terrible draft picks, and poor free agent acquisitions that never worked out.   

The mistake wasn't trying to extend the window.  The mistake is 100% about how they did it.  You don't extend the window with a complete 180 from how you built the nucleus.  1 - that's not your strength.  2 - its short sighted and just digs a deep hole if/when you screw it up.  3 - if you recognize talent rather than names in the free agent market, you get talented players, not formerly talented players - the Jacksons, Bennett, etc... and even some of our own players like Jeffery and Brooks.  Overpaying for no production but a lot of IR time.  Bad Howie... very bad Howie.

 

If you want to 'go for it' to extend the window, you tell those players that's the goal when acquiring them in free agency and try to keep their costs in the moment, not stretched out into the future for years and years.  Short term risk/reward.  And in the draft, you stick to building the future core of the team, not band-aids.