2 hours ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Until you can guarantee that we will get the next Josh Allen or Pat Mahomes....just stop with defense isn't important BS.  That's just a ridiculous take.  We have ignored defense for far too long.  It's what won Tampa a SB last year and what has gotten SF this far.  Yet people pick one game with two great QB performances as the blueprint?  That's just silly.  We are not getting a great QB with our first round picks.  I don't like Hurts.  But wasting our draft capital to reach for a QB because of what other great QB's did in the playoffs is dumber than going with Hurts next year.  Give me multiple good players in the first.  Hell, we need good players on defense just to get up to a mid level as compared to the rest of the league.  

I agree with certain points here.  That game last night was the exception and not the rule for QB play.  We saw 2 QBs totally dialed in and in the zone playing out of their minds.  How often does that happen?  We've seen both Allen and Mahomes have not so good games and turn the ball over.  Last night was the best of each by 2 of the elite QBs in the NFL and that's a rare occurrence. 

Question is do we have enough of a team that getting a top tier QB is enough to make us competitive in playoff games with the likes of KC, BUF, LAR?  I don't think so.  I think we are so depleted of young talent, especially on the D side of the ball, that having Watson (and I list him because he's really the only long term option for a proven top tier QB as Wilson/Rodgers are too old and are short term answers) would make us much more competitive than Hurts, but he'd have to play lights out and zoned in every playoff game the same way Allen/Mahomes played last night to make up for the shortcomings of the overall roster and that's too big of an ask for any QB.  If he falters just a bit we'd lose because our D is that devoid of talent and our STs aren't special at all. 

Some people want the 'safe' option of a proven elite QB and don't want to risk going back to the draft and rolling the dice and especially since this QB class is supposed to be mediocre.  The safe option costs much more in terms of draft capital and cap space and makes it harder to build a better team around your new elite QB.  Do you really think our D compares to those other teams like KC, BUF, LAR, SF, TB, and even GB?  We are light years away from them now and making it harder to rebuild via the draft and FA would keep us light years away from them for at least 2-3 seasons.  We also need upgrades on O.  Watkins has shown promise, but he's really the #3 WR.  Reagor sucks and I don't see him ever being productive here.  We need a solid dependable WR across from Smith.  We're going to need upgrades at RB.  Sanders if oft injured, low football IQ, poor vision and misses chunk plays too often every game, and is coming to the end of his contract.  Howard is oft injured and just a year to year guy.  Scott fills in nicely when called up, but don't see him as getting 10+ carries every game for 17 games.  Gainwell has promise, but honestly I think he'd be our best slot WR the way he runs routes and coupled with his athletic ability he'd be good.  Could still run him out of the backfield for at least 5 carries/game, but right now he's better than either of Ward/Reagor.  We have loads of positions that need upgrading to get us close the overall roster level of those other teams, so I don't see how Watson is going to be able to put the team on his back and have to be a machine nearly every game so we can win.

The other option is to draft and develop a QB.  This way you'd be more capable of building a better overall roster via draft/FA, but the risk is higher with an unknown commodity.  I don't think any of the QBs in this class will be ready to step in as rookies.  I think they'd all need at least 1 season on the bench learning as much about the NFL game as they can take in and some might need more than 1 season.  So again, either way there's no immediate fix to this team since our roster is so mediocre in talent right now.  Either way you're going to be waiting at least 2 seasons before we're good enough to even think about competing with these other teams.   I don't know which is the better option and neither does anyone else since none of us can see or predict the future.  I know my preference is to draft a QB and hopefully Siri and his O staff with a year of coaching can have that guy be ready to roll in 2023 with some more talent around him we acquired draft/FA because we had more resources to be able to do it.

Doesn't matter much anyway and we can debate this right up to draft day, but Lowie is going to do what Lowie wants and we're all just observers.

One last note, I have stated before that due to how the rules in today's NFL game favours the O that they're aren't really any dominant shutdown Ds any more.  What you want from your D is the ability to create TOs and be very stingy in the RZ and force TDs into FGs.  First thing we need is playmaking DBs with ball skills.  We have Slay and that's it.  We basically have no Ss.  What, Epps?  He's just above JAG level.  We have all these CBs on the roster, but what's the plan?  Are they converting a few of them to Ss?  If we don't draft a S this draft I'm going to be shaking my head for a long time.  This is the kind of D you need in the NFL now.  Speed and ball skills.  We are so so lacking in that.

 

 

4 minutes ago, DawkinsOwnage03 said:

Have to draft a Guard is what it is 

Was Opeta that bad?  I never noticed him so that's a good thing.  Of course you can upgrade from him but compared to the needs across the board on defense and severe lack of dynamic offensive weapons I'm OK with the o-line.

Wentz lost me when he continued to refuse to talk to anyone even after they canned Doug.

I get it, he probably hated Howie.  Understood.

But he's not the only QB in that situation.  He should have sucked it up and looked in the mirror.  To me, that was unacceptable for a franchise QB.  For years they had bent over backwards but apparently he couldnt give them a break when they f'ed up with Reagor and then Hurts.  Two wrongs dont make a right, and he ran away, and now he may be run out of the league.

6 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

I agree with certain points here.  That game last night was the exception and not the rule for QB play.  We saw 2 QBs totally dialed in and in the zone playing out of their minds.  How often does that happen?  We've seen both Allen and Mahomes have not so good games and turn the ball over.  Last night was the best of each by 2 of the elite QBs in the NFL and that's a rare occurrence. 

They were both excellent last week, scored 47 ( Bills ) and 42 ( Chiefs ) points.

This is two games playoff stats.  You would be hard pressed to find a 3, possibly even 4 games stretch that Hurts matches these number.

 

21 minutes ago, garingovt2000 said:

Yeah total oversight on my behalf... I kept thinking Scott and Howard but brain farted on Gainwell.  I'd like to see Gainwell play more in the slot also.

Agree.  Wouldn't mind them using Gainwell as a McCaffrey or Kamara type of player.  Not saying he is as good but use him as a receiver.

9 minutes ago, RLC said:

Would like to pass on OL in FA. We have so many other needs + limited cap room for UFA spending.

Yeah, there's some good defensive free agents I would go for. If anything on offense, go for a WR in FA. I wouldn't mind RB D'Ernest Johnson in free agency either. 

25 minutes ago, Ipiggles said:

Make Hurts your back up QB. Otherwise what are you doing? 

Even with 3 1st rounders, I anticipate this team taking a step back next season.  Hurts arguably regressed as the season went on after being put in an extremely favorable situation at QB.  His best game might have been in Atlanta.  This OL was incredible this season.  I anticipate more injuries along the entire line since that's what usually happens.  Can you imagine Hurts with the makeshift OL from 2020?   😂   He would have been decapitated.  

Just now, Mike31mt said:

Wentz lost me when he continued to refuse to talk to anyone even after they canned Doug.

I get it, he probably hated Howie.  Understood.

But he's not the only QB in that situation.  He should have sucked it up and looked in the mirror.  To me, that was unacceptable for a franchise QB.  For years they had bent over backwards but apparently he couldnt give them a break when they f'ed up with Reagor and then Hurts.  Two wrongs dont make a right, and he ran away, and now he may be run out of the league.

Meh, he did us a favour. We'd be worse off if we had kept him, not really any closer to a Superbowl, but with one less first rounder and 15 mil of extra dead cap space.

If I post in this thread does that make me a blogger?

I feel like they will give Hurts another year, I don’t want to but I feel like they are going to. Might as well load up. 

Just now, Perforator said:

If I post in this thread does that make me a blogger?

100%

With Gannon interviewing for head coaching jobs and likely to be gone in 1-2 years (if not hired this cycle) how much input will he have in drafting defensive players?  Does it make sense to draft prospects based on physical traits he might value, when it appears he's a head coaching hire waiting to happen?

Just now, Alphagrand said:

With Gannon interviewing for head coaching jobs and likely to be gone in 1-2 years (if not hired this cycle) how much input will he have in drafting defensive players?  Does it make sense to draft prospects based on physical traits he might value, when it appears he's a head coaching hire waiting to happen?

That's why it will be the perfect time for him to go. Get one of these veteran minds in here that should be here for the long haul. 

10 minutes ago, Green_Guinness said:

I agree with certain points here.  That game last night was the exception and not the rule for QB play.  We saw 2 QBs totally dialed in and in the zone playing out of their minds.  How often does that happen?  We've seen both Allen and Mahomes have not so good games and turn the ball over.  Last night was the best of each by 2 of the elite QBs in the NFL and that's a rare occurrence. 

Question is do we have enough of a team that getting a top tier QB is enough to make us competitive in playoff games with the likes of KC, BUF, LAR?  I don't think so.  I think we are so depleted of young talent, especially on the D side of the ball, that having Watson (and I list him because he's really the only long term option for a proven top tier QB as Wilson/Rodgers are too old and are short term answers) would make us much more competitive than Hurts, but he'd have to play lights out and zoned in every playoff game the same way Allen/Mahomes played last night to make up for the shortcomings of the overall roster and that's too big of an ask for any QB.  If he falters just a bit we'd lose because our D is that devoid of talent and our STs aren't special at all. 

Some people want the 'safe' option of a proven elite QB and don't want to risk going back to the draft and rolling the dice and especially since this QB class is supposed to be mediocre.  The safe option costs much more in terms of draft capital and cap space and makes it harder to build a better team around your new elite QB.  Do you really think our D compares to those other teams like KC, BUF, LAR, SF, TB, and even GB?  We are light years away from them now and making it harder to rebuild via the draft and FA would keep us light years away from them for at least 2-3 seasons.  We also need upgrades on O.  Watkins has shown promise, but he's really the #3 WR.  Reagor sucks and I don't see him ever being productive here.  We need a solid dependable WR across from Smith.  We're going to need upgrades at RB.  Sanders if oft injured, low football IQ, poor vision and misses chunk plays too often every game, and is coming to the end of his contract.  Howard is oft injured and just a year to year guy.  Scott fills in nicely when called up, but don't see him as getting 10+ carries every game for 17 games.  Gainwell has promise, but honestly I think he'd be our best slot WR the way he runs routes and coupled with his athletic ability he'd be good.  Could still run him out of the backfield for at least 5 carries/game, but right now he's better than either of Ward/Reagor.  We have loads of positions that need upgrading to get us close the overall roster level of those other teams, so I don't see how Watson is going to be able to put the team on his back and have to be a machine nearly every game so we can win.

The other option is to draft and develop a QB.  This way you'd be more capable of building a better overall roster via draft/FA, but the risk is higher with an unknown commodity.  I don't think any of the QBs in this class will be ready to step in as rookies.  I think they'd all need at least 1 season on the bench learning as much about the NFL game as they can take in and some might need more than 1 season.  So again, either way there's no immediate fix to this team since our roster is so mediocre in talent right now.  Either way you're going to be waiting at least 2 seasons before we're good enough to even think about competing with these other teams.   I don't know which is the better option and neither does anyone else since none of us can see or predict the future.  I know my preference is to draft a QB and hopefully Siri and his O staff with a year of coaching can have that guy be ready to roll in 2023 with some more talent around him we acquired draft/FA because we had more resources to be able to do it.

Doesn't matter much anyway and we can debate this right up to draft day, but Lowie is going to do what Lowie wants and we're all just observers.

One last note, I have stated before that due to how the rules in today's NFL game favours the O that they're aren't really any dominant shutdown Ds any more.  What you want from your D is the ability to create TOs and be very stingy in the RZ and force TDs into FGs.  First thing we need is playmaking DBs with ball skills.  We have Slay and that's it.  We basically have no Ss.  What, Epps?  He's just above JAG level.  We have all these CBs on the roster, but what's the plan?  Are they converting a few of them to Ss?  If we don't draft a S this draft I'm going to be shaking my head for a long time.  This is the kind of D you need in the NFL now.  Speed and ball skills.  We are so so lacking in that.

 

 

 If Kyle Hamilton gets past the 6th or 7th pick, the Eagles need to move up and get him. He’s the best football player in this draft, and the leader on defense day 1. Something the Eagles haven’t had since Jenkins. 

5 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

 If Kyle Hamilton gets past the 6th or 7th pick, the Eagles need to move up and get him. He’s the best football player in this draft, and the leader on defense day 1. Something the Eagles haven’t had since Jenkins. 

I love Hamilton, but trading up for a S is not this team's MO.

2 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

If Quay can move at the combine,  at 6'4" he will be higher in most mock drafts.  Right now most draft websites haven't even heard of him because everyone just knows Dean.

Quay is a little stiff but the rankings they have on him are way off.  

3 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

 If Kyle Hamilton gets past the 6th or 7th pick, the Eagles need to move up and get him. He’s the best football player in this draft, and the leader on defense day 1. Something the Eagles haven’t had since Jenkins. 

Hamilton is the only player I would trade up for.  There will be another Pickett near year; same for the other QBs and WRs.  Hamilton has a unique set of skills for his position and could make an impact right away.   

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

They were both excellent last week, scored 47 ( Bills ) and 42 ( Chiefs ) points.

This is two games playoff stats.  You would be hard pressed to find a 3, possibly even 4 games stretch that Hurts matches these number.

 

I don't think Hurts is capable of matching these stats in any stretch.  Yeah, these 2 are playing on a whole other level with the exception of Burrow who is close behind.  And these are rare players that are very difficult to find.  They are also all draft picks of their team with Mahomes sitting his first season, Allen taking til his 3rd season to start showing his full potential, and while I don't think Burrow is as talented as the other 2 he has been ahead of the curve so far, but they got him some dynamic weapons (Now they need to get him an OL before he gets killed).  Maybe the message that I wasn't fully clear on in my post is that no matter which way the Eagles go we're all going to have to show patience as we're not going to be contenders overnight.  It's going to take at least 3 seasons most likely.

You made a statement in another post (I'm still catching up) saying an elite QB is better than an elite D (Credit to you for also saying to not just ignore the D side like some posters seem to be insinuating).  I would say with the way the rules give the O an advantage over the D in today's NFL game that there are no more elite Ds.  Someone has to be the best statisically, but they don't dominate like they used to and just take over games.  Not consistently.  You'll see a game like that here and there (what SF did to GB), but not often.  Today's Ds have to be opportunistic bend but don't break.  To be that we need speed and ball skills and we have neither.  Most of our DBs are slow/average speed as are our LBs unless you count the raw talent guy who has spent more time on IR than on the field and I don't count Singleton because while he racks up stats he's usually late getting to the ball.  Yay, you made a tackle after a 7-8 yard gain, good for you.

Yes, we need a top tier QB, but I don't know what the answer is to acquiring that player.  Basically, pick your poison (trade or draft) and commit to it.

 

4 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hamilton is the only player I would trade up for.  There will be another Pickett near year; same for the other QBs and WRs.  Hamilton has a unique set of skills for his position and could make an impact right away.   

I mean if 8-9 teams forgot Aidan Hutchison declared, I think I'd make that trade.  I fear the Giants get Hamilton and Ekwonu.

11 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

 If Kyle Hamilton gets past the 6th or 7th pick, the Eagles need to move up and get him. He’s the best football player in this draft, and the leader on defense day 1. Something the Eagles haven’t had since Jenkins. 

I just want them to stop neglecting the position and draft a S with range and ball skills.  Actually, I'd be ecstatic if they drafted one like that in the first 2 rounds and then another in the 4th/5th.  Two young rangy ballhawking Ss that can team up together hopefully into their 2nd contracts.  TOs and stingy RZ D is the way to go forward.

 

A lot of recency bias going on today as knee jerk reaction to the KC/Buffalo game... rightly so, that game was incredible.

Meanwhile, Saturday night, a different team won against the #1 seed in the NFC without scoring an offensive TD.

Football is complementary, the best TEAM wins.  Having a great QB helps to elevate the team, but cannot win it alone (as evidenced by Allen's great game... which fell short).  Equally the defense cant win it alone either, especially in the wake of the rule changes heavily favoring the offense.  But the defense needs to be opportunistic and be able to create big plays and turnovers at times.  That can only be done consistently with some top talent at all 3 levels of defense.

And sadly it seems extremely improbable that they can find that QB that will raise the tide of all ships this year.  So, they need to focus on the defense getting younger, faster and more dynamic.  The offense is likely a lost cause this offseason for the most part.  But if they can get the defensive pieces, that will benefit the offense and more importantly, the team as a whole.  I'd prefer to get a more traditional QB on board, but not at the cost multiple first round picks and $30+M/ year right off the bat.  None of the available guys via trade seem to be worth that heavy an investment on both ends.  And when making that type of move you need to be where the Rams are... ready to win immediately.  The Eagles aren't there yet.

35 minutes ago, greend said:

Sorry but this is Howie's approach and it doesn't seem to work

What hasn't worked is trying to keep them around too long. We would not be in this position if we started looking to the future sooner.

3 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I mean if 8-9 teams forgot Aidan Hutchison declared, I think I'd make that trade.  I fear the Giants get Hamilton and Ekwonu.

Sadly, the days of Dave Gettleman going off the reservation with top-10 picks have come to an end.

They have to do something with their OL for sure, so those might be the two picks.

1 minute ago, Thing3 said:

What hasn't worked is trying to keep them around too long. We would not be in this position if we started looking to the future sooner.

What hasn't worked is we think someone is talented and they're not

19 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

With Gannon interviewing for head coaching jobs and likely to be gone in 1-2 years (if not hired this cycle) how much input will he have in drafting defensive players?  Does it make sense to draft prospects based on physical traits he might value, when it appears he's a head coaching hire waiting to happen?

Good question.

Gannon is a former scout though, so he at least understands the importance of measurables. The defenders we drafted last year could theoretically play in any scheme.