7 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

Weak QB class , and I wouldn’t use a first on any QB , guys I take flyer on later in draft 

Zappe

Coan

and I have been watching more of Kaleb Eleby  and I like what I see  , real nice arm , offers a lot to work with 

What about EJ Perry? 

7 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think there have been more dominant LT than there have been C in the NFL.

Just look at the Eagles.  Tra Thomas, JP, Mailata well on his way.  The Eagles haven't had a center in the same hemisphere as Kelce.

Is Dermontti Dawson still the best center of all time? Given how athletes evolve, that’s insane. Without Dawson’s ability to pull, "Jason Kelce, NFL center” might not exist.

1 minute ago, Utebird said:

Id put Lane in that conversation for best eagles OT as well 

I didn't really expand on my thoughts but just looking at OT rather than LT you can add Lane and Runyan. 

Back to the original post, I think hands down, Kelce was a better center than JP was a LT.  I'm sure late career JP is fogging my memory but Kelce just does things other centers don't.

In terms of retired numbers - maybe for as long as they are alive. The ring of honor is also OK - but a roster full of guys with numbers in the 40s ain’t.  The college thing where the team captain or whatever uses a special number is also cool - but probably wouldn’t fly in the league (e.g., I don’t want to  be the next Reggie, I want to be me).

Just now, SB52 said:

Is Dermonti Dawson still the best center of all time? Given how athletes evolve, that’s insane. Without Dawson’s ability to pull, "Jason Kelce, NFL center” might not exist.

The Steelers have always had good to great centers.  Dawson definitely brought a whole new dimension to the position.  He was so good.  

Remember how good Steve Everett was supposed to be when he signed here.

1 minute ago, Waiting4Someday said:

In terms of retired numbers - maybe for as long as they are alive. The ring of honor is also OK - but a roster full of guys with numbers in the 40s ain’t.  The college thing where the team captain or whatever uses a special number is also cool - but probably wouldn’t fly in the league (e.g., I don’t want to  be the next Reggie, I want to be me).

Until the last living fan that rooted for the player dies.....I just think we will have some triple digit numbers in the future.  

4 minutes ago, SB52 said:

Is Dermonti Dawson still the best center of all time? Given how athletes evolve, that’s insane. Without Dawson’s ability to pull, "Jason Kelce, NFL center” might not exist.

Matt Birk was another Center for the Vikings a bit before Kelce that was a pulling center and at the time I don't remember any other centers in the league that would pull.

Can't remember if mawae pulled???

It's definitely a unique skill set for a center and one that Kelce excels at.

8 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Do the OL experts with a good memory think Kelce is as good a C as Peters was a LT, and how would they be placed among all-timers at their respective positions?

My memory often deceives me but I rank Kelce and Bednarik as1 and 1a. Different eras. They would be among the all-time NFL best as well, along with Otto, Dawson, and Webster.

Peters is the best OT we've ever had, and by a lot. Tra couldn't run block to save his life. Bob Brown wasn't nearly the athlete Peters was. I rank Peters among the top 4 5 OTs of all time, with Munoz, Art Shell, and Ogden. Add Walter Jones in there too.

Just now, Utebird said:

Matt Birk was another Center for the Vikings a bit before Kelce that was a pulling center and at the time I don't remember any other centers in the league that would pull.

It's definitely a unique skill set for a center and one that Kelce excels at.

I want to say Jeff Saturday may have a little bit.  I always liked Nick Hardwick for the Chargers too. 

Kevin Mawae is up there.

Peters was a better tackle than Kelce was centre. Late stage Peters taints a lot of minds, but early career Kelce wasn’t the bees knees 

Just now, bpac55 said:

The Steelers have always had good to great centers.  Dawson definitely brought a whole new dimension to the position.  He was so good.  

Remember how good Steve Everett was supposed to be when he signed here.

Everitt was the last of the "this guy will finally be good” (without being really good) offensive line era. Then the Eagles hit with Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews, signed Runyan, and the team’s entire o-line fortunes seemed to turn.

1 minute ago, SB52 said:

Everitt was the last of the "this guy will finally be good” (without being really good) offensive line era. Then the Eagles hit with Tra Thomas and Shawn Andrews, signed Runyan, and the team’s entire o-line fortunes seemed to turn.

You could also say that missing out on LeCharles Bentley changed their fortunes too.

1 minute ago, bpac55 said:

You could also say that missing out on LeCharles Bentley changed their fortunes too.

Didn’t he immediately blow out his knee as well…

2 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

Didn’t he immediately blow out his knee as well…

Very first training camp practice. He almost lost his entire leg after all was said and done.

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Very first training camp practice. He almost lost his entire leg after all was said and done.

Holy moly.

3 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I didn't really expand on my thoughts but just looking at OT rather than LT you can add Lane and Runyan. 

Back to the original post, I think hands down, Kelce was a better center than JP was a LT.  I'm sure late career JP is fogging my memory but Kelce just does things other centers don't.

Peters never had a below average year except for his last at OT for the Eagles in 2020.   I think he actually played OK in Chicago last season.  Kelce had a pretty mediocre to bad 2016.  He had a ton of penalties and seemed to struggle in protection.  He was rumored to be on the trade block in the offseason.  The knock on him up to 2017 was that he needed to be paired with a bigger guard in order to be effective.  So there's no one that gets out and moves like Kelce does but I think you are downplaying Peters at his peak.  He could move as well any OT in the modern era.  I don't think there's anyone that is close to him when he was at his peak.  I mean watch this video:

So yeah I love Kelce.  He is one of my favorites.  I don't think he's hands down better than Peters by a long long shot.  Peters at his peak was like Reggie White at his.  He just dominated people.  

Yeah, Peters was a better LT than Kelce was/is a C.

And that's not to slight Kelce, it's just that Peters was a straight stonewall for a decade+.

46 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I think there have been more dominant LT than there have been C in the NFL.

Just look at the Eagles.  Tra Thomas, JP, Mailata well on his way.  The Eagles haven't had a center in the same hemisphere as Kelce.

HONEYBUNS???!!!

39 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

I didn't really expand on my thoughts but just looking at OT rather than LT you can add Lane and Runyan. 

Back to the original post, I think hands down, Kelce was a better center than JP was a LT.  I'm sure late career JP is fogging my memory but Kelce just does things other centers don't can't.

FYP

5 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

HONEYBUNS???!!!

FYP

Fraley was such a slob and without a doubt, the weakness of those 2000s lines.  But he still wasn't terrible.

Did anyone know this.

Honeybuns: NFL Offensive Line Coach!

1 hour ago, Outlaw said:

So what would your suggestion be to "help” them? No jail, counseling only? A sack of cash to lift them out of poverty? Not being sarcastic, I’d be truly curious if your opinion here. 

Early intervention and early childhood support is probably the most helpful thing we could do.  From a study done on early intervention programs in NC: 

Our estimates suggest that early childhood education reduces adult criminality. In particular, we find that both programs are responsible for reducing the conviction rate by approximately 20% in high poverty areas. Head Start availability reduces by 1.3 percentage points the likelihood of a serious conviction by age 35, but only in high-poverty counties.7 Smart Start, which operated decades after Head Start and often in different counties, generates reductions in later criminal behavior on the same order of magnitude, reducing the likelihood of a serious criminal conviction by 0.7 percentage points (13 percent) overall by age 24. These effects are larger in high-poverty counties (1 percentage point, or 21 percent) and are larger for blacks than whites, perhaps as a result of differential pre-existing access to high-quality care. The reductions generated by Smart Start are also larger in counties without access to Head Start; this suggests that the effectiveness of additional early education funding may diminish as funding increases. This result further suggests the importance of targeting funding towards areas with the greatest need. 

8 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’ll completely disagree.  In his prime, Peters at was a better than Kelce at a more important position.  
 

 I think it’s recency biased.  Kelce was much better later in his career than he was in the beginning.   Vice Versa for Jason Peters.  

Yea, I don't disagree with that one bit.  My lasting memories of JP are him hobbling off the field, whereas we just watched Kelce have one of his best seasons.

JP, no doubt is an NFL all-timer.  He was a freak. 

2 hours ago, Utebird said:

Again I'm going to disagree, I've always given people the benefit of doubt and tried not to judge them, my cell mates name was Earl, he had a different life than me growing up that shaped his thoughts and the way he reacted to the world, we were talking one night about life and choices and he told me that he's seen people who no longer had any light in them, none in their eyes, he wasn't one of those in my assertion, and he said most people in prison are just people doing the best with what they know but a few of them the light is gone. I never met any of those 

We had an old convict come and visit our pod once he was probably in his 70s, he was in the mob when he was younger and went to prison for murder, he told us about his childhood and his environment and the circumstances that led to him taking another person's life, he told us until we've been in his shoes and experienced exactly what he had who are we to say we wouldn't have done the exact same thing as he?

My dad has never committed a crime, he's a good dude lives a good healthy honest life, I asked him if he could ever murder someone and he of course said ,"no never" then I asked him what he he would do if someone raped my mom? He said he would hunt them down and kill them.

Most people are good they make bad choices some more than others and those choices sometimes have really negative consequences for other people and it's unfortunate and yet those people are still good people who under different circumstances may have made different choices.

Either way sending them to jail or prison as currently constructed doesn't help them to make future better choices.

Yup, prisoners always blame everyone and everything else for their poor choices. However when they start to take responsibility for their own actions.  Low and behold they change. Take responsibility for your own life. If you go to prison it's because YOU broke the law. 

Don't break the law. 

Seems like Daboll may be headed to Miami and it's either Flores or Quinn for the Giants.

2 hours ago, TorontoEagle said:

You know who learned a trade in an institution? Buffalo Bill, learned how to be a tailor....that didn't work out so well

Shut it and rubs the lotion on its skin.