Let's see, i watched Hurts stink it up in a PO game, M Jones, Murray stink it up, the walking God Mahomes stink it up for the second half with the season on the line, same with Garopollo with eight years in the league. Watson scored all of 7 points in his first PO game.

Maybe it's tough to play in the playoffs?

I don't think Hurts is the savior, but I guarantee if you start Pickett or Strong you're not winning more than 6 games next year. Even top QBs generally struggle as rookies, and these guys aren't top QB prospects. Trade for Wilson and you'll win 10-11 games and come up short in the playoffs when a good defense takes away his scrambles and the deep pass and forces him to throw from the pocket where he can't see underneath. Rodgers is 39 and just had a PO game where his team scored 10 points - but defenses can't stop elite QBs, I'm told.

It's not that you can't do better than Hurts, you just can't get the guy who can carry this team - you need a better team, then get a better QB.

 

 

20 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Let's see, i watched Hurts stink it up in a PO game, M Jones, Murray stink it up, the walking God Mahomes stink it up for the second half with the season on the line, same with Garopollo with eight years in the league. Watson scored all of 7 points in his first PO game.

Maybe it's tough to play in the playoffs?

I don't think Hurts is the savior, but I guarantee if you start Pickett or Strong you're not winning more than 6 games next year. Even top QBs generally struggle as rookies, and these guys aren't top QB prospects. Trade for Wilson and you'll win 10-11 games and come up short in the playoffs when a good defense takes away his scrambles and the deep pass and forces him to throw from the pocket where he can't see underneath. Rodgers is 39 and just had a PO game where his team scored 10 points - but defenses can't stop elite QBs, I'm told.

It's not that you can't do better than Hurts, you just can't get the guy who can carry this team - you need a better team, then get a better QB.

Meanwhile was 0-5 vs. playoff teams in the regular season. The offense averaged in those 5 games 19.8 ppg. Meanwhile last year with a far worse team and QB playing like crap the eagles offense averaged 21.2 ppg vs. playoff teams. And I included the garbage time touchdown to Dallas when they were down 41 to 14 with 3 minutes left. I included the garbage time touchdown with Kansas City where they scored a touchdown down 19 with eight seconds left. And I included the touchdown against the Raiders when they were down 19 with under four minutes left. Without those garbage hallow tds they’d be averaging 15.6 ppg. 

yeah it’s just the playoffs that’s really tough. It’s basically every team that’s a playoff team he and the offense didn’t play well (besides KC for 3 quarters). The playoffs were just a continuation of what you saw in the regular season against playoff teams.

here’s another interesting stat every team in the NFL besides the Falcons, Eagles and Carolina beat a playoff team. Yeah even the jets, giants, jags, lions (granted packers only played starters for 2.5 quarters) and bears.  

17 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

I'm convinced that Tony Pauline gets the news from Adam Caplan's sources that Caplan isn't confident enough to publish himself.

Gotta admire the hustle of Adam Caplan

 

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Let's see, i watched Hurts stink it up in a PO game, M Jones, Murray stink it up, the walking God Mahomes stink it up for the second half with the season on the line, same with Garopollo with eight years in the league. Watson scored all of 7 points in his first PO game.

Maybe it's tough to play in the playoffs?

I don't think Hurts is the savior, but I guarantee if you start Pickett or Strong you're not winning more than 6 games next year. Even top QBs generally struggle as rookies, and these guys aren't top QB prospects. Trade for Wilson and you'll win 10-11 games and come up short in the playoffs when a good defense takes away his scrambles and the deep pass and forces him to throw from the pocket where he can't see underneath. Rodgers is 39 and just had a PO game where his team scored 10 points - but defenses can't stop elite QBs, I'm told.

It's not that you can't do better than Hurts, you just can't get the guy who can carry this team - you need a better team, then get a better QB.

The same mistake most NFL teams make each year is drafting a QB and then expecting him to play in his rookie season and be the saviour.  Most of them need a full year of sitting on the bench and getting accustomed to the NFL life and playing vs an NFL D.  Most teams try to rush it.  KC sat Mahomes for his first season and that's worked out good for the most part.  Just because you draft a QB at a certain spot doesn't mean he should start right out of the gate.  It's an individual, case by case basis dependent upon the QB, his team, and his coaching staff and system including how he's fit in it.  I would love to draft Strong then sit him a season to learn the NFL game and its nuances and then turn him loose in 2023.  I think he'd do fine with this team with this O coaching staff and O personnel.  BETTER than Hurts. 

Palmer said himself that Strong's World Class Arm will get even better once he improves his mechanics and learns to throw using the ground as power source (with improved accuracy) and as his knee heals he will have more mobility.  He's way ahead of the curve because he had TOTAL control over the O calling protections and plays without looking to the sidelines.  He has good pocket presence and knows how to move within the pocket to buy himself time to make plays.  He's light years ahead of Hurts at this point.  I'm not all-in on these super mobile QBs like Mahomes and Allen as they are generational talents so the odds we get one are abysmal, but give me a QB who is the in ballpark of Burrow, but with a stronger arm, and I'm all-in.

28 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Let's see, i watched Hurts stink it up in a PO game, M Jones, Murray stink it up, the walking God Mahomes stink it up for the second half with the season on the line, same with Garopollo with eight years in the league. Watson scored all of 7 points in his first PO game.

Maybe it's tough to play in the playoffs?

I don't think Hurts is the savior, but I guarantee if you start Pickett or Strong you're not winning more than 6 games next year. Even top QBs generally struggle as rookies, and these guys aren't top QB prospects. Trade for Wilson and you'll win 10-11 games and come up short in the playoffs when a good defense takes away his scrambles and the deep pass and forces him to throw from the pocket where he can't see underneath. Rodgers is 39 and just had a PO game where his team scored 10 points - but defenses can't stop elite QBs, I'm told.

It's not that you can't do better than Hurts, you just can't get the guy who can carry this team - you need a better team, then get a better QB.

The start of your last sentence:

This whole argument is so stupid. If you think the guy can be your QB long term you take him regardless. 

1 minute ago, LeanMeanGM said:

This whole argument is so stupid. If you think the guy can be your QB long term you take him regardless. 

No no no you just pass up on him even if you love him and think he can be special because you just assume that over the next couple years there’s gonna be another quarterback that comes along.

Pickett had to poop during that measurement. Zappe should be a boxer with that reach.

1 minute ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

No no no you just pass up on him even if you love him and think he can be special because you just assume that over the next couple years there’s gonna be another quarterback that comes along.

I love the "build the team first” crowd that keeps pointing to the Rams and Bucs as prime examples. Except both used the 1st overall pick on QBs, built around them, and then pivoted off them when they came to the realization they weren’t good enough. I’d love one example of someone that purely built the team first and then addressed the QB. 

2 minutes ago, The Blackfish said:

Pickett had to poop during that measurement. Zappe should be a boxer with that reach.

Pickett has to do hand exercises so he doesn’t measure below 8 inches. He might as well just wear gloves and stuff a cucumber in there for his measurement. 

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I love the "build the team first” crowd that keeps pointing to the Rams and Bucs as prime examples. Except both used the 1st overall pick on QBs, built around them, and then pivoted off them when they came to the realization they weren’t good enough. I’d love one example of someone that purely built the team first and then addressed the QB. 

But why waste a 1st when we already have a QB we can ditch?

3 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Pickett has to do hand exercises so he doesn’t measure below 8 inches. He might as well just wear gloves and stuff a cucumber in there for his measurement. 

 It’s so weird to have such small hands, for any man, especially one that’s 6’3”.  I’m 6’1” and I hit 9 1/2” with gnarled fingers from plumbing for 25 years. 

 

16 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I love the "build the team first” crowd that keeps pointing to the Rams and Bucs as prime examples. Except both used the 1st overall pick on QBs, built around them, and then pivoted off them when they came to the realization they weren’t good enough. I’d love one example of someone that purely built the team first and then addressed the QB. 

Bucs were building for 12 years as they missed the playoffs for 12 years until they got lucky with Brady. Great job building by them to go over a decade and on top of it couldn’t find their QB savior for years after Garcia and really since Brad Johnson. 

Meanwhile the rams haven’t used a first round pick since 2016. And the last time they drafted a defensive player in the first round was 2014. The rams used 4 firsts to get Stafford and Ramsey and basically built their defense via trade, FA and rounds 2-7 from 2015 onward. Furthermore the rams have spent 1 second rounder since 2015 on defense. So the rams have drafted 0 defensive players in the first round in 8 years (as they don’t have a first this year) and 1 defensive player in the first two rounds of the draft since 2015. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Bucs were building for 12 years as they missed the playoffs for 12 years until they got lucky with Brady. Great job building by them to go over a decade and on top of it couldn’t find their QB savior for years after Garcia and really since Brad Johnson. 

Meanwhile the rams haven’t used a first round pick since 2016. And the last time they drafted a defensive player in the first round was 2014. The rams used 4 firsts to get Stafford and Ramsey and basically built their defense via FA and rounds 2-7 from 2015 onward. Furthermore the rams have spent 1 second rounder since 2015 on defense. So the rams have drafted 0 defensive players in the first round in 8 years (as they don’t have a first this year) and 1 defensive player in the first two rounds of the draft since 2015. 

Don’t know if you heard but Bengals have been rebuilding for 31 years. This stuff takes time.

I was hoping Mailata’s step brother, (he might as well be) would chill with the weight but damnit man          

T. Daniel Faalele - 6’8” 387, 35 3/8” arm length. 

WR C. Watson - 6’4” 211, 32 3/4” arm length.

DE   J. Johnson- 6’4” 259, 34 3/8 arm length. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

No no no you just pass up on him even if you love him and think he can be special because you just assume that over the next couple years there’s gonna be another quarterback that comes along.

If you believe Strong or Pickett are going to be special, you probably believe that a Nigerian prince is going to give you a million dollars if you just send a couple thousand to a bank account in Lagos.

They might turn out to be starting NFL QBs in a few years, they're extremely unlikely to be top ten QBs (i.e. better than Hurts), the odds are they're going to be flops. Throwing pretty passes isn't good enough, you have to throw them to the right team.

Yes, if you really believe you have identified a "special" QB you should nab him, but in reality, teams delude themselves all the time, reach in the 1st rd for a 2nd rd talent, and end up looking for another QB three years later.

48 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Bucs were building for 12 years as they missed the playoffs for 12 years until they got lucky with Brady. Great job building by them to go over a decade and on top of it couldn’t find their QB savior for years after Garcia and really since Brad Johnson. 

Meanwhile the rams haven’t used a first round pick since 2016. And the last time they drafted a defensive player in the first round was 2014. The rams used 4 firsts to get Stafford and Ramsey and basically built their defense via trade, FA and rounds 2-7 from 2015 onward. Furthermore the rams have spent 1 second rounder since 2015 on defense. So the rams have drafted 0 defensive players in the first round in 8 years (as they don’t have a first this year) and 1 defensive player in the first two rounds of the draft since 2015. 

When you take Donald in the 4th round and Kupp in the 3rd round, who needs 1st round picks?

1 hour ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I love the "build the team first” crowd that keeps pointing to the Rams and Bucs as prime examples. Except both used the 1st overall pick on QBs, built around them, and then pivoted off them when they came to the realization they weren’t good enough. I’d love one example of someone that purely built the team first and then addressed the QB. 

The Chiefs with Mahomes.  You’re welcome 

Man, one silly stat really has you convinced that Hurts is like the 16th best QB.... I am amazed you're so sure of that...

35 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The Chiefs with Mahomes.  You’re welcome 

the first thing Andy Reid did when he got to KC in 2013 was trade for Alex smith. The chiefs were coming off a 2-14 season. reid built the team around Alex smith after acquiring him and thinking he could win them a title and help establish a winning culture. then they realized over 5 years he wasn’t good enough to get them past a certain point. 

so the most important thing reid wanted when getting to a 2 win KC was a QB: trade for Alex smith who helped change the culture of that chiefs team. They actually built the team up after acquiring Alex smith and then eventually got mahomes when smith wasn’t good enough.

28 minutes ago, austinfan said:

If you believe Strong or Pickett are going to be special, you probably believe that a Nigerian prince is going to give you a million dollars if you just send a couple thousand to a bank account in Lagos.

They might turn out to be starting NFL QBs in a few years, they're extremely unlikely to be top ten QBs (i.e. better than Hurts), the odds are they're going to be flops. Throwing pretty passes isn't good enough, you have to throw them to the right team.

Yes, if you really believe you have identified a "special" QB you should nab him, but in reality, teams delude themselves all the time, reach in the 1st rd for a 2nd rd talent, and end up looking for another QB three years later.

Where did i say they were? I said if they believe that then go make the move. I never said i did.

All I’ve said to you repeatedly is that you shouldn’t just assume or hope a quarterback‘s just gonna magically fall from the football god once the team‘s built cause they just always acquirable when you do that. Hope and assuming isn’t definite to happen. My point to you has consistently been if you love a quarterback and truly love and think he’s special then you should go get him. Nowhere in there did I mention Carson strong or Pickett. Have you seen me say either were special ever? I know I haven’t. I like both of them. I don’t love either. I wouldn’t take them either in the first round especially not until i know strong’s medical evaluation. 

42 minutes ago, austinfan said:

When you take Donald in the 4th round and Kupp in the 3rd round, who needs 1st round picks?

Well Donald was a 1st rounder in 2014. He was actually their last first round defensive pick. So 9 drafts ago is the last time they used a first rounder on a defensive player (including this year cause they have no first rounder). the rams drafted one first rounder in 9 drafts on defense (Donald) then built the entire rest of the defense via trades, FA and drafting in rounds 2-7.

I mean maybe if we didn’t turn 3 first round picks into Derek Barnett, Andre Dillard, Jalen Reagor and then second round picks on a "backup” quarterback, Sidney jones and JJAW the Eagles might have some players like that. Idk maybe we should’ve done a better job scouting and drafting early rounds from 2017-2020. 

29 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

the first thing Andy Reid did when he got to KC in 2013 was trade for Alex smith. The chiefs were coming off a 2-14 season. reid built the team around Alex smith after acquiring him and thinking he could win them a title and help establish a winning culture. then they realized over 5 years he wasn’t good enough to get them past a certain point. 

so the most important thing reid wanted when getting to a 2 win KC was a QB: trade for Alex smith who helped change the culture of that chiefs team. They actually built the team up after acquiring Alex smith and then eventually got mahomes when smith wasn’t good enough.

Smith was a relatively cheap acquisition, cost a 2nd rd pick (#34).

Offensive ranking, 6, 16, 9, 13, 6, record 11-5, 9-7, 11-5, 12-4, 10-6, 2-4 in playoff games.

Then was traded to Washington for a 3rd and Fuller CB.

20 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Smith was a relatively cheap acquisition, cost a 2nd rd pick (#34).

Offensive ranking, 6, 16, 9, 13, 6, record 11-5, 9-7, 11-5, 12-4, 10-6, 2-4 in playoff games.

Then was traded to Washington for a 3rd and Fuller CB.

Again did they not go out and acquire a QB they coveted and believed in at that time? They did. Were they not coming off a 2-14 season when reid took over and made that acquisition? They were  

That’s exactly what reid did after taking over a 2 win football team in the 2013 offseason. the first big move reid made was trading for smith. And then began the building around Alex smith after that trade. Eventually when they realized (like Jimmy G with the niners) he wasn’t good enough to win them a SB, they dealt up for mahomes. One of the reasons they wanted Alex smith besides wanting a QB was to change the culture of the organization with his leadership as well as QB play 

so they traded for smith and then they drafted kelce, hill, Eric fisher, Mitch Morse, Dee ford, Marcus peters, Fulton, Steven Nelson, Chris jones and add others via free agency as well. Also the chiefs were missing a first rounder in 2016 and didn’t have any second rounders in 2013 and 2014