3 hours ago, HazletonEagle said:

Been a while since this was posted.

 Not sure if this was posted yet 

2 hours ago, wussbasket said:

I think something that gets overlooked is the playing style of the QBs that have been on the team recently. Nick Mullens, Flacco, Minshew, and Sinnett are all primarily pocket passers.

It’s been brought up during TC. The same time Hurts wasn’t named a starter. The same time Hurts wasn’t on any promotional material. The same time he was pulled from the preseason game the starters played the most because he had to take a dump. 

2 hours ago, BigEFly said:

But that is kind of throwing in the towel. Folks complain about Hurts arm strength but it is better than Minshew’s and Minshew cannot run. That said, I have no issue with Minshew getting to battle Hurts to start.  Minshew didn’t exactly light it up in the cowpad PS game.

Perhaps because he was playing with the practice squad? The main reason I’d rather see Minshew this year as a bridge is he would at least assist in the development and evaluation of our young and soon to be drafted WRs, TEs, and RBs. I imagine what Smith’s numbers would have been with an accurate passer under center who we didn’t have to build a new run first offense around mid season. 

2 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

You’re sure as hell not taking Ridder in the 1st round.

In this class he isn’t lasting until 51. Trade down into the mid-low 20’s to pick up another day 2 pick and grab him there. Other two picks need to be either both defense or one defense plus Kenyon Green. 

2 hours ago, Random Reglar said:

Wilson obviously counts.  

Running QB is a measurement of running.  And Russell Wilson is one of the top QB rushers in NFL history.

Running QB doesn't mean bad passer.

Even if I concede your point (I don’t), that’s one example of a guy who won a SB as your definition of a "running QB.” Just so happened to have an all world RB and one of the best defenses in the modern NFL as well on his side. 

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

Muma was getting talked up by Jeremiah and Davis.

I love Muma. If he’s there at 51 and I was in charge, I’d run the card to the podium myself. 

8 hours ago, Outlaw said:

None of them won a thing. And no, Wilson does not count. Wilson’s arm is light years ahead of Hurts or Willis in terms of power and accuracy. He’s also adept pre-snap. 

I kind of wish I knew you IRL to hear some of your hot takes on things outside of football. Things you might actually  know something about, like "why living in your parents basement at 34 is the absolute best.” Or, "who showers EVERY day?”

I'd say Wilson is the exception...he's Hurts with an arm and better brain.  He still plays the game most of the time like a headless chicken.  

7 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Neither Jackson nor Hurts were run first QBs in college.  Neither was Mariota.  Good wheels and dual action threats.  Dual action isn’t run first but a lot are one read and bail.  Problem is that so many QBs fit that moniker in the current college game.  These super fast 230-240 lb DEs in the college game is causing so many college offenses to play using run options.

Jackson and Hurts were 100% run first QB's in college.  In the OU system Hurts was certainly corralled a bit in that regard because of the screens and quick passing game, but he was much the same as he was at Bama.

3 hours ago, D-Shiznit said:

Yup the Bearcat/Eagle pipeline has been very fruitful.

I still want us to go after Watson first, but Ridder is a good enough plan B.

Won't need to trade up for him either.

So a backup in the second round is bad, but a first round backup isn‘t?

7 hours ago, BigEFly said:

But that is kind of throwing in the towel. Folks complain about Hurts arm strength but it is better than Minshew’s and Minshew cannot run. That said, I have no issue with Minshew getting to battle Hurts to start.  Minshew didn’t exactly light it up in the cowpad PS game.

Not throwing in the towel, developing your new QB with a bridge QB that throws instead of runs.  What good is the new QB going to get from film study where the opposition stacks 8 and 9 in the box constantly, or sees how the opponent responds to Read options when thats not the plan moving forward?

I'd rather run a traditional offense, even if a bit limited than a completely different style.  Thats the Doug Pederson-Donovan McNabb model.  Implement the offense you want with someone who can run it, and then turn it over to the young QB when you deem they are ready.

5 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Not throwing in the towel, developing your new QB with a bridge QB that throws instead of runs.  What good is the new QB going to get from film study where the opposition stacks 8 and 9 in the box constantly, or sees how the opponent responds to Read options when thats not the plan moving forward?

I'd rather run a traditional offense, even if a bit limited than a completely different style.  Thats the Doug Pederson-Donovan McNabb model.  Implement the offense you want with someone who can run it, and then turn it over to the young QB when you deem they are ready.

This is where we are at an impasse. Those of us advocating Hurts believe he can make the improvement from this year to next to be a viable starting QB. He has the physical tools. It's just a question of whether he can make the necessary improvements to play from an NFL pocket. We think he can and in light of all the current options want to give him a (1) year to do it (or not). 

You believe he has reached his ceiling and don't feel it's beneficial to anyone to give him another year. The thing is the Eagles can do both. Find a QB that helps the team more (they already have Minshew) and bring him in to compete - I agree there should be real competition for QB1 next year - nothing should be given. If the Eagles see a QB in the first round that they really like and won't cost the farm then they should take him and then trade Hurts. Otherwise Hurts should be here next year with the opportunity to earn the QB1 position - and it should be "earned". 

21 hours ago, Freshmilk said:

I think it will take a little more.  But I don't disagree.  

Okay we'll throw in our pro bowl qb

57 minutes ago, Nivraga said:

This is where we are at an impasse. Those of us advocating Hurts believe he can make the improvement from this year to next to be a viable starting QB. He has the physical tools. It's just a question of whether he can make the necessary improvements to play from an NFL pocket. We think he can and in light of all the current options want to give him a (1) year to do it (or not). 

You believe he has reached his ceiling and don't feel it's beneficial to anyone to give him another year. The thing is the Eagles can do both. Find a QB that helps the team more (they already have Minshew) and bring him in to compete - I agree there should be real competition for QB1 next year - nothing should be given. If the Eagles see a QB in the first round that they really like and won't cost the farm then they should take him and then trade Hurts. Otherwise Hurts should be here next year with the opportunity to earn the QB1 position - and it should be "earned". 

I suppose that depends on how you define that term.  More importantly, the competition is destined to be tilted one way or the other.   What offensive system do they compete in?  The one that's 60% running plays with QB designed runs as part of the system?  In that case, Hurts wins.   If they eliminate those plays, I have no doubt that Minshew would win.  But, they can't be a split personality offense and have a legit competition.  And if Hurts wins the competition and they run that run first, super short offense, how does that help the young QB?  

 

I'm not suggesting Hurts is at his ceiling, nor that he can't improve.  I am suggesting that that improvement and ceiling isn't going to be good enough.  He's a backup QB and likely a very good one, where his athleticism and play making can help you steal a game when the starter is out, but as a starter, you have to tailor the offense to him so much that you completely flip on its head the type of offense you are planning to run.  The NFL is a passing league.  You can win some games running the ball, you can even go far in the playoffs relying on the run game... but not when your offense is stuck with that as the only option because your QB is so limited in the passing game.  When that happens teams will clog it up in the playoffs, exactly as we've seen.  Running QBs in the playoffs are a long shot to win.

6 hours ago, Outlaw said:

.....I love Muma. If he’s there at 51 and I was in charge, I’d run the card to the podium myself. 

1 minute ago, Couch Potato said:

We really need multiple second rounders. Every time I do a mock draft and get into that second round, there's so many players at different positions that would be great for this team, it just sucks how we have so many needs. 

6 hours ago, LeanMeanGM said:

It’s been brought up during TC. The same time Hurts wasn’t named a starter. The same time Hurts wasn’t on any promotional material. The same time he was pulled from the preseason game the starters played the most because he had to take a dump. 

I'm not debating whether Hurts was a "run first" QB or not in college because the term itself is ambiguous and can be interpreted based on opinion.

That said, going by your opinion that he was a "run first" QB in college...what does passing for 3851 yards at 11.3 yards per attempt with 32 TD passes in 14 games tell you about a "run first" QB?

 

9 hours ago, BigEFly said:

Seriously, if Hurts sucks so bad that the Eagles want to dump him for Minshew, do you really think he has trade value?

I said the most trade value he will have. A 3rd or 4th is better then a 6th or 7th in another year. 

One of my top 5 backers was the top backer all week , Clark , awesome week , IMO  . Nobody was better including , Muma 

I would probably go 

Clark , Tindall , beavers top 3

big fan of Chenal , I like him as a 34 olb ,

Domann , but he is more of a hybrid player 

10 hours ago, Alphagrand said:

You’re sure as hell not taking Ridder in the 1st round.

Im not

but suspect someone at the end of the round like the Lions might

2 hours ago, Nivraga said:

This is where we are at an impasse. Those of us advocating Hurts believe he can make the improvement from this year to next to be a viable starting QB. He has the physical tools. It's just a question of whether he can make the necessary improvements to play from an NFL pocket. We think he can and in light of all the current options want to give him a (1) year to do it (or not). 

You believe he has reached his ceiling and don't feel it's beneficial to anyone to give him another year. The thing is the Eagles can do both. Find a QB that helps the team more (they already have Minshew) and bring him in to compete - I agree there should be real competition for QB1 next year - nothing should be given. If the Eagles see a QB in the first round that they really like and won't cost the farm then they should take him and then trade Hurts. Otherwise Hurts should be here next year with the opportunity to earn the QB1 position - and it should be "earned". 

He already had a year to prove he could. And failed

6 hours ago, Infam said:

So a backup in the second round is bad, but a first round backup isn‘t?

A QB taken this year would technically be a backup for year 1, yes. I think the majority of rookie QBs coming from college benefit from a bench year. But, that wouldn’t be the stated intent of the team for them to be a long-term backup like they said with Hurts. I truly think Lowie got cute and wanted a Taysom Hill type gadget player to intermix with Carson. Then the Carson situation blew up and they were where the Saints are now with Taysom Hill…without a QB1. Draft Ridder, sit him a year to learn and observe, and he starts in 2023. 

2 hours ago, Nivraga said:

This is where we are at an impasse. Those of us advocating Hurts believe he can make the improvement from this year to next to be a viable starting QB. He has the physical tools. It's just a question of whether he can make the necessary improvements to play from an NFL pocket. We think he can and in light of all the current options want to give him a (1) year to do it (or not). 

You believe he has reached his ceiling and don't feel it's beneficial to anyone to give him another year. The thing is the Eagles can do both. Find a QB that helps the team more (they already have Minshew) and bring him in to compete - I agree there should be real competition for QB1 next year - nothing should be given. If the Eagles see a QB in the first round that they really like and won't cost the farm then they should take him and then trade Hurts. Otherwise Hurts should be here next year with the opportunity to earn the QB1 position - and it should be "earned". 

He MAY have the physical tools (personally I think he has a below average arm and almost zero ability to throw left)…my concern is more the mental side of the game. He has trouble reading the defense pre-snap, progressing through reads, and hears footsteps in the pocket even when there are none. 

15 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

One of my top 5 backers was the top backer all week , Clark , awesome week , IMO  . Nobody was better including , Muma 

I would probably go 

Clark , Tindall , beavers top 3

big fan of Chenal , I like him as a 34 olb ,

Domann , but he is more of a hybrid player 

I would be quite happy with Clark in the 3rd as an option. This is honestly a pretty deep damn draft for every position…except QB. 

19 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

He already had a year to prove he could. And failed

Yea TJ, it’s gonna be a rough next several years for you my man. You’ll be watching Hurts QB your favorite team for a while still.

 

And win a bunch of games while at it.

 

Hopefully you hang in there.

29 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

One of my top 5 backers was the top backer all week , Clark , awesome week , IMO  . Nobody was better including , Muma 

I would probably go 

Clark , Tindall , beavers top 3

big fan of Chenal , I like him as a 34 olb ,

Domann , but he is more of a hybrid player 

arent you forgetting asamoah?

1 minute ago, Thrive said:

Yea TJ, it’s gonna be a rough next several years for you my man. You’ll be watching Hurts QB your favorite team for a while still.

 

And win a bunch of games while at it.

 

Hopefully you hang in there.

Several years? 🤣 2022…at most. 

1 minute ago, Outlaw said:

Several years? 🤣 2022…at most. 

Would start prepping for that reality right now. No need to wait until November 2022 when it will become all too obvious.

6 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

arent you forgetting asamoah?

I was doing top 5 , he is up there though , I like how fast but in control he plays . I think it’s a really good defensive draft 

Bonnitto is right there too , I think of him as more of a 34 player , wouldn’t be shocked if he sneak into late rd 1 

12 minutes ago, Original Sin said:

I was doing top 5 , he is up there though , I like how fast but in control he plays . I think it’s a really good defensive draft 

Bonnitto is right there too , I think of him as more of a 34 player , wouldn’t be shocked if he sneak into late rd 1 

Agreed 100%. I think people are underrating this draft because there aren't flashy stand out receivers and quarterbacks. There's a lot of strong defensive players in this draft, but like how teams are hiring coaches these days they aren't the "sexy" pick. Everyone wants to score 50 points a game now, no one wants to figure out how to stop it.

51 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I would be quite happy with Clark in the 3rd as an option. This is honestly a pretty deep damn draft for every position…except QB. 

The knock on Clark is that he isn’t particularly instinctive in coverage. Otherwise - he has great length, really good straight line speed and filled up the stat sheet at LSU as he could swallow up folks with that combo. Weirdly, he makes me think of Dennis Rodman playing football - really good energy but raw. Nigel Bradham as a more familiar comparison.

Rather than playing MIKE or WIL where he’d be expected to have more polished, I wonder if he is a SAM fit. 2-gap/hold the edge, drop occasionally and use his athleticism a la Parsons to pressure the QB. I think most of his blitzing at LSU was more of the delayed opportunistic variety - but he certainly has the wheels for stunts. Can he effectively attack an edge or have the hands to counter a lineman, that’s a question mark, and generally why I lean towards the 3-4OLB types for this role.

The more conservative judgement is that Clark is a 3-4 thumper.