27 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Takes a defense to win against the better teams.  The Eagles weren’t going down by less than one score against those teams and four to five of the defensive starters won’t be back.  Hurts didn’t lose those games by himself.  Just upgrading Hurts is a Hobson’s choice.  

Four to five defensive starters shouldn’t be back. They have cap to build the defense if they are smart and make the right decisions in FA. Not saying it’s easy or even probable, but you can build a defense and a team quickly in the NFL. Especially when the NFC is looking like Rams will be the only serious contenders. It won’t take much to get on the level of the Cowboys/49ers/Cardinals.

19 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

. triple negative?  

 

BTW, nothing fixes a player's desire.  Reagor doesn't actually care enough to be fixed.

Reagor probably doesn’t think anything even needs to be fixed. 

I doubt any QB in this draft will have a career as good as Hurts.

Would any QB in this draft get picked ahead of Jones and Fields last year? Questionable. All have worse flaws.

And we saw how last year's group struggled as rookies.

Don't waste a 1st rd pick on someone's backup QB three years from now.

20 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

It takes both an offense AND a defense to win against better teams.

And having a good QB is going to help the defense by reducing their time on the field.

1 hour ago, schuy7 said:

I'd like to think after watching football for 20 years that I've learning something. It doesn't take an expert to see the difference in very good passers and someone who is not good. 

The media who back Hurts probably haven't seen more than a few of his games this year. They like to read a couple stats and assume they know what they're talking about from a few highlights. Having a take is way more fun than not knowing or watching all the games.

Hurts was put in a great position to succeed this year. Dominant running game, great OL, wide open WRs on play action. That's a QB's dream. The success he did have came from that. Any time he had to manufacture his own success, the offense was a nightmare. Nevermind missing reads, bad pocket presence, inaccurate throws, long wind-up, etc.

Yes, we lost a game b/c he hit Reagor twice. So much for "wide open receivers."

8 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I do too, but I think all signs point to Howie being enamored with him. I’d rather try to trade down to the 27-32 range and roll the dice on Ridder then trade two picks to move up and get Pickett. 

Lol. Are your fingers in your ears while you sit in the corner and rock while you chant this?

Lots of smoke around carolina liking him

9 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I doubt any QB in this draft will have a career as good as Hurts.

Would any QB in this draft get picked ahead of Jones and Fields last year? Questionable. All have worse flaws.

And we saw how last year's group struggled as rookies.

Don't waste a 1st rd pick on someone's backup QB three years from now.

Especially after already spending a second on a backup two years ago, amirite?

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Yes, we lost a game b/c he hit Reagor twice. So much for "wide open receivers."

Well, your boy is the one who drafted him.  Oh well.  Howie is good at drafting though.

11 minutes ago, austinfan said:

I doubt any QB in this draft will have a career as good as Hurts.

Would any QB in this draft get picked ahead of Jones and Fields last year? Questionable. All have worse flaws.

And we saw how last year's group struggled as rookies.

Don't waste a 1st rd pick on someone's backup QB three years from now.

We already wasted a second on that

12 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

Reagor probably doesn’t think anything even needs to be fixed. 

He's just not an NFL player. At least not a good, heck, average one. 

Would Halaby have an NFL job if he wasn't bff's with the son of an owner ? 

There's different schools of thought when it comes to our QB position.  And who knows what the correct answer is.  Maybe there is more than 1 right way and maybe all of them would turn into flops.

1-Trade for known top tier QB at all costs.

Thanks to the playoff games the past couple of rounds (and especially to the BUF-KC game and to the Bengals/Burrow) this group is willing to trade for Watson/Wilson, and even Rodgers if possible, and give up all or most of our 3 Round 1 picks to do it.  They'll point to Cincy and say that they have only an average (at best) to mediocre OL and not a great D, yet they made it to the SB when just 2 seasons ago they only had 2 wins.  And it's all because they got a top tier QB and that QB has elevated the rest of the team despite the rest of the roster being slightly above average at best.  Thus, if we got a QB like that in this weak division/conference then we'd be an instant SB contender because we have a great OL and good enough skill players even though our D would still be porous.  We'd have the ability to just outscore other teams and win.

 

2-Draft a QB to develop and start in 2023 while drafting D to help improve the overall roster. 

I think most of us agree there are no QBs in this draft class who can step into the position as a rookie like Burrow did.  All these QBs are going to need a season to sit and learn and work on their game.  There are some who might turn into solid QBs by doing so.  Every draft teams overdraft the QB position.  I think most prefer not to trade up and to just sit and see which QB falls to us, whether in Round 1 or later on.  This way you can hold onto your high end draft picks and try to infuse the D with desperately needed young quality talent.  This is the 'build the team around your future QB so he has a better chance to be successful when he's ready to start' school of thought.

Now in this scenario it brings up the question as to what you do with Hurts/Minshew.  Is Hurts still the starter with Minshew the backup while you groom the newly drafted QB for 2023?  Do they have an open competition for starting QB between Hurts/Minshew?  Do they trade one (which would be Hurts since he'd return the better draft pick) and roll with the other for 2022 while the newly drafted QB plays backup and learns with the goal to be ready for 2023?

 

3-Neither trade for nor draft a QB in 2022 and use one of the 1sts to trade down and acquire a 2nd 2023 1st Round pick to try and get your guy in (what seems like) a better/deeper QB class.

Since you neither want to give up too much valued draft capital and cap space, that could be used to make the overall roster better, for either an aging QB or one with serious legal/civil issues, and nor do you want to draft a QB in this 'meh' draft class just to bring one in, then you are willing to help improve the overall roster this season and wait til next off-season to try and find your QB.  Basically being OK with having Hurts start for 2022 because you improved the roster a bit and wagering that the 2023 QB class will have better and more quality to choose from than 2022.  Nothing wrong with not taking anything because you really didn't like any of your options, but the future is always an unknown.  You're basically willing to gamble here.

 

4-Trade or sign a FA QB to be 'the bridge' QB while we wait to get our guy sometime in the future.

Instead of giving up a King's Ransom (or nothing at all by signing a FA), give up less for a 'game manager' or 'caretaker' type of QB who is still a clear upgrade over Hurts and will help the young skill positions players develop better while you look to the future for the next QB.  And in this scenario it doesn't have to be as soon as 2023.  This QB could give you a 3 year window to find your guy.  You'll still have enough draft capital left to help improve the overall roster, and all of it if you signed a FA.  This is the 'build up an overall really good team and then drop a good QB into it a la Tampa Bay (have unbelievable lucky timing) or the Rams (trade away your draft future for hopefully a few shots at a SB)' approach.

 

5-Hurts is the guy and he just needs another season to improve and then we'll be reaping the rewards.

He has too many flaws in his game.  Poor mechanics, slow processing, limited field vision, bad instincts, poor pocket presence, and being gun shy and not trusting himself to pull the trigger on certain plays is just too much to fix and would take longer than another season to improve upon to the point where he's a good starting playoff caliber QB.

 

I was leaning with #2, but after hearing/reading how none of the QBs at the Senior Bowl did anything to impress or standout now I'm not entirely sure.  Then again, maybe not read too much into these guys having just a week of practice to most likely run a different O scheme than they're used to with totally new personnel they aren't familiar with.  As an example, maybe Strong looked off because he was given plays instead of having full control over the O like he did at Nevada? 

I've never been a fan of #1.  I just don't think our roster is good enough, especially on the D side, that either Watson/Wilson makes us good enough to make a deep playoff run.  Yes, our OL is much better than Cincy's, skill players I'd give them a slight edge at least, and they while their D isn't tops in the NFL they do have better players/talent than we do.  Put it this way, IMO if we played Cincy with Burrow playing designated QB for both sides, I think Cincy wins comfortably by 2 scores.

For #4 I wouldn't trade for a bridge QB.  Depending on the FA QB and what his cap hit would be then it's a possibility.  In fact, in that scenario you could add to your draft capital by trading Hurts for a 2023 2nd/3rd Round pick.  Keep all your draft capital and allow Sirianni to run the O he really wants to run and help our young skill players develop better.  Though, that could also be done with Minshew playing QB so I'm in favour of an open competition for starting QB for 2022. However, both Howie and Siri in their end of the season pressers said Hurts is their guy so to do a 180 and have them battle it out would be a bad look.  We all know Howie doesn't like to look bad, which is why JJAW and Reagor are still on the roster.

#3 really is a gamble.  Even if they manage to trade back one of the 3 Round 1 picks for another 2023 1st it still might not be enough to get the guy you covet most.  Even if that guy materializes come draft time next year.  Maybe that class ends up being just marginally better than this one?  Or, maybe the other DCs in the League just do what Tampa did and we suck next season and finish with a top 10 pick?  We have no clue how it could unfold:  good, bad, neutral.

 

1 minute ago, greendestiny27 said:

He's just not an NFL player. At least not a good, heck, average one. 

At the end of this is the great unknown of evaluating the mental side of these kids…

2 hours ago, schuy7 said:

I'd like to think after watching football for 20 years that I've learning something. It doesn't take an expert to see the difference in very good passers and someone who is not good. 

The media who back Hurts probably haven't seen more than a few of his games this year. They like to read a couple stats and assume they know what they're talking about from a few highlights. Having a take is way more fun than not knowing or watching all the games.

Hurts was put in a great position to succeed this year. Dominant running game, great OL, wide open WRs on play action. That's a QB's dream. The success he did have came from that. Any time he had to manufacture his own success, the offense was a nightmare. Nevermind missing reads, bad pocket presence, inaccurate throws, long wind-up, etc.

Plus you have eyes, so there's that

4 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

We already wasted a second on that

3 years from now Hurts won't be in the league

Just now, greend said:

3 years from now Hurts won't be in the league

I think he is what they drafted him as. A backup qb

3 minutes ago, ToastJenkins said:

At the end of this is the great unknown of evaluating the mental side of these kids…

Spielman said they’ve had good success separating WR prospects through mental/personality testing, and Reagor as a prospect was right there with Jefferson and Aiyuk, suggesting there weren’t concerns there. 

Reagor’s implosion is just wild. 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I think he is what they drafted him as. A backup qb

He should be a good backup for a long time. 

1 minute ago, ToastJenkins said:

I think he is what they drafted him as. A backup qb

If you need to win against a winning team, he won't get that done

2 hours ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

They do have one.  Whether he turns out to be the guy long term that they commit to with a new contract remains to be seen.  But there are a lot of areas on this team that they need to try to improve and and build yet people here are unable to stop going in the same circles about only QB.  

There is no building without a QB. You’re working off a false premise. We all know Hurts has proven to not be "the guy” in both college and the NFL. 

Not only is he not physically gifted enough… during the TB playoff game the other team was screaming, "HE CAN’T READ A DEFENSE!” They we’re both extremely happy and in disbelief.

Just now, ToastJenkins said:

At the end of this is the great unknown of evaluating the mental side of these kids…

That is hard to do... But he never should have been the pick. It's ridiculous. I hate listening to the inside the birds podcast constantly try to defend the Reagor pick. I don't care what insiders told you what, or if Cossel wanted to sleep with the kid after watching his tape. He sucks, you got it wrong, take the L and move on. Not everyone had him as a first rounder. The Vikes literally laughed at the pick. DJ on national TV said he didn't have him in his top 50, so just stop. Vent over 😁

57 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

People are talking like just because a guy has a strong arm and can run, he has enough tools for an NFL team to fall in love with. 

A bunch of fans are in love with Hurts because he can run, and he doesn’t even have a strong arm.

3 minutes ago, greendestiny27 said:

That is hard to do... But he never should have been the pick. It's ridiculous. I hate listening to the inside the birds podcast constantly try to defend the Reagor pick. I don't care what insiders told you what, or if Cossel wanted to sleep with the kid after watching his tape. He sucks, you got it wrong, take the L and move on. Not everyone had him as a first rounder. The Vikes literally laughed at the pick. DJ on national TV said he didn't have him in his top 50, so just stop. Vent over 😁

The Vikings GM said they would have taken Reagor or Aiyuk if Jefferson was gone. 

I'd still rather roll with Minshew as the QB and build up the team through the draft. Hurts has not earned it to be starter IMO. Minshew hasn't either but I feel the passing game gets hindered with Hurts in

52 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I tend to agree with you. I think they want Pickett. Will he be available at 15 is another story. I doubt it in this draft class. I can easily see Howie dealing 15 and 19 to move up to grab him. 

I don’t especially like Pickett. If I’m being honest, though, that doesn’t mean much. Scouting college QB’s is so extraordinarily difficult. Plus, we don’t have much of the information needed to evaluate this position.

That being said, if you think you have a chance of finding a franchise QB, then spending 2 picks is a no brainer.

5 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

The Vikings GM said they would have taken Reagor or Aiyuk if Jefferson was gone. 

Yeah but he's just trying to be respectful now. There's video evidence of the Vikes literally laughing and astonished at us taking Reagor and passing on Jefferson. They couldn't get the pick in fast enough. 

Just now, greendestiny27 said:

Yeah but he's just trying to be respectful now. There's video evidence of the Vikes literally laughing at us taking Reagor and passing on Jefferson. 

He said that was usual excitement over making your pick (I’m not necessarily buying that). I think they clearly wanted Jefferson, but there’s absolutely no reason for him to say Reagor or Aiyuk would have been the pick. He could have said Aiyuk would have been the pick while also complimenting Reagor on being a fine prospect. He didn’t.