2 hours ago, Utebird said:

You know I think it's encouraging to see that stat that only one starter in both defenses combined was a 1st round pick by their respective teams(Aaron Donald)

Though I'm not sure Howie is the guy to build the defense.

He did a good job in 2017 getting real lucky with some FA signings McLeod, P Robinson, Long, trade for Darby  and contributions from non first round draft picks. Kendricks, mills, beau Allen, curry, Douglas, trade for jernigan, seems all those moves worked that year.

Im not sure Howie can find some defensive starters outside of the first round, FA, trades, later rounds ect, I think 2017 was the exception not the rule for Howie.

ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  Howie hasn't drafted defense well in quite some time.

2 hours ago, downundermike said:

 

Where's the defensive blueprint?

Just now, Iggles_Phan said:

Where's the defensive blueprint?

Right. The blueprint is: build a good team, then pay the high price for a QB.

I don't understand why people keep saying the Rams built the team first and then addressed QB. They addressed QB immediately with the #1 overall pick, built the team around him, and when he wasn't good enough, they upgraded. 

They, just like the Bucs, have proved you can both address the QB and build the team concurrently. 

9 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

The comment I made was that the Eagles couldn't have drafted any good defensive players, because they weren't drafting in the top 15 much.  Such a cop out.  

 

The bolded is the problem.  We don't have someone that we can trust to identify quality defensive players.

It’s 100% that. I would specifically say drafting they really haven’t been identifying it consistently. I was actually going to ask this: name the top five defensive players the Eagles have drafted since Andy Reid left in 2013? 

12 minutes ago, justrelax said:

Right. The blueprint is: build a good team, then pay the high price for a QB.

Nope.  Build a good team, stay healthy, get just enough luck.

The Rams weren't the best team this year.  They just managed to win their playoff games.

16 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

ding ding ding.  We have a winner.  Howie hasn't drafted defense well in quite some time.

During Doug's time here with Schwartz, they drafted far less defensive players than they have historically. So not only were the defensive picks not quality ones, they also used less resources to build the defense. Now its come back to bite them. Sirianni took a defensive heavy approach in his first draft, hopefully they continue that trend for the next.

11 minutes ago, LeanMeanGM said:

I don't understand why people keep saying the Rams built the team first and then addressed QB. They addressed QB immediately with the #1 overall pick, built the team around him, and when he wasn't good enough, they upgraded. 

They, just like the Bucs, have proved you can both address the QB and build the team concurrently. 

Sounds good except...they totally mortgaged the future, as did the Bucs. I give them credit, they won it all with this approach but the future is not rosey and, as CE points out, they stayed healthy and had the necessary luck.

8 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s 100% that. I would specifically say drafting they really haven’t been identifying it consistently. I was actually going to ask this: name the top five defensive players the Eagles have drafted since Andy Reid left in 2013? 

The fact that Benny Logan may be on that list hammers the point home.

8 minutes ago, Connecticut Eagle said:

The fact that Benny Logan may be on that list hammers the point home.

If I had a name five it probably be Jalen mills, Jordan Hicks, Bennie Logan, josh sweat and Avonte Maddox. And you could argue Derek Barnett could be on there ahead of someone like Jordan Hicks. But I think Jordan hicks was actually phenomenal before he kept getting injured. However we should have known coming out of college that was his problem.

i’m not saying don’t draft players on defense but what I’m saying is these first round picks are not gonna mean crap if you don’t have the right scouting to hit on those picks. That’s a major problem. 

also to point out the Eagles did some of what the Rams did. That’s how they got Darius slay. Which has worked out well for them at cb. They just didn’t pay as much as the Rams did for Von Miller and Jalen Ramsey.

20 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

It’s 100% that. I would specifically say drafting they really haven’t been identifying it consistently. I was actually going to ask this: name the top five defensive players the Eagles have drafted since Andy Reid left in 2013? 

I would say Jordan Poyer, Jordan Hicks, Bennie Logan, Jalen Mills, and Derek Barnett. You could also add Josh Sweat and Avonte Maddox. Poyer didn't play much for the Eagles, but he did make the All-Pro list. Jordan Poyer is probably the best defensive draft pick they have had since 2013 and he didn't even play for them.

Outside of the, the defensive players haven't been that great. Marcus Smith, Shareef Miller , Sidney Jones, Eric Rowe, and lots of others that have bare minimum contributions.

I think Bengals get back to the playoffs if they fix the Oline and add to the secondary

Burrow and Chase are going to be fun to watch for years

Btw has there been any word on his knee?

43 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

MIA took themselves out of the running (past tense) at the trade deadline, because Watson couldn't resolve his lawsuits; they're not permanently out.  If they're in, that's where Watson goes.  If they're out, CAR likely becomes the only team on Watson's waive list.

Let me know when Watson is on -- I'll be sure to tune in to the broadcast.  I'll pick him up at the airport and drive him to the radio station.

Ross said after the season they're out and they won't be pursuing Watson and reporters have said that McDaniel really likes Tua. Rapsheet reported they're out of the running as well several weeks ago.

8 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

I would say Jordan Poyer, Jordan Hicks, Bennie Logan, Jalen Mills, and Derek Barnett. You could also add Josh Sweat and Avonte Maddox. Poyer didn't play much for the Eagles, but he did make the All-Pro list. Jordan Poyer is probably the best defensive draft pick they have had since 2013 and he didn't even play for them.

Outside of the, the defensive players haven't been that great. Marcus Smith, Shareef Miller , Sidney Jones, Eric Rowe, and lots of others that have bare minimum contributions.

I was going to mention specifically contributed to the Eagles and not just in general. You can give them credit for drafting poyer but at the same time they didn’t think enough of him to want to keep him at all cost. So it tells me they didn’t believe he was ever gonna be that type of player after watching him up close. so that they thought he was expendable. Which then comes back to you and your self scouting wasn’t very good because if you would’ve known he was gonna be an all pro then why the hell would you ever release him

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I was going to mention specifically contributed to the Eagles and not just in general. You can give them credit for drafting poyer but at the same time they didn’t think enough of him to want to keep him at all cost. So it tells me they didn’t believe he was ever gonna be that type of player after watching him io close. so that they thought he was expendable. Which then comes back to you your self scouting wasn’t very good because if you would’ve known he was gonna be an all pro then why the hell would you ever release him

If I remember correctly, they didn’t move him inside to safety. They played him at CB. I also remember he was a highly decorated PAC-12 CB… Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

3 hours ago, Utebird said:

You know I think it's encouraging to see that stat that only one starter in both defenses combined was a 1st round pick by their respective teams(Aaron Donald)

Though I'm not sure Howie is the guy to build the defense.

He did a good job in 2017 getting real lucky with some FA signings McLeod, P Robinson, Long, trade for Darby  and contributions from non first round draft picks. Kendricks, mills, beau Allen, curry, Douglas, trade for jernigan, seems all those moves worked that year.

Im not sure Howie can find some defensive starters outside of the first round, FA, trades, later rounds ect, I think 2017 was the exception not the rule for Howie.

"By their respective teams”.  So you mortgage the future trading for players, rent players or you can actually draft the players.  I don’t want them Rams approach to building a team.  Really was built to win this year. By the end of 2023 the window would have slammed shut.  No significant money for free agents and no draft capital. Lot of first round draft choices from other teams
 

2022 free agents

Von Miller

Darious Williams

Sony Michel

Austin Corbett

Odell Beckham, Jr.

Johnny Mundt

Donte Deayon

Buddy Howell

Joseph Noteboom

Coleman Shelton

Brian Allen

Travin Howard

John Wolford

Matt Gay

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo

Sebastian Joseph

Troy Reeder

Will Compton

Antoine Brooks Jr.

2023 Free agents

Matthew Stafford

Andrew Whitworth

A'Shawn Robinson

Rob Havenstein

Troy Hill

Taylor Rapp

Darrell Henderson

Justin Hollins

David Long

Bobby Evans

Matthew Orzech

Kendall Blanton

Greg Gaines

Xavier Jones

Marquise Copeland

Mike Hoecht

Bryce Perkins

David Edwards

Raymond Calais

Christian Rozeboom

Nick Scott

 

5 hours ago, SB52 said:

If I remember correctly, they didn’t move him inside to safety. They played him at CB. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

Based off the article I read he was a longshot to make the team as a corner. And his release said cornee Jordan Poyer. So the Eagles didn’t even move him to safety. The Buffalo Bills moved him to safety where he has flourished. 

9 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I was going to mention specifically contributed to the Eagles and not just in general. You can give them credit for drafting poyer but at the same time they didn’t think enough of him to want to keep him at all cost. So it tells me they didn’t believe he was ever gonna be that type of player after watching him io close. so that they thought he was expendable. Which then comes back to you your self scouting wasn’t very good because if you would’ve known he was gonna be an all pro then why the hell would you ever release him

I agree here, I think it makes the list look even worse because now Jordan Hicks is the best defensive player they have drafted since 2013. Sweat does have the opportunity to take that with another solid year and if he can make the Pro Bowl again. I liked Hicks, he just couldn't stay healthy.

7 minutes ago, SB52 said:

If I remember correctly, they didn’t move him inside to safety. They played him at CB. I also remember he was a highly decorated PAC-12 CB… Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

I think I remember him having some legal issues that caused him to drop in the draft, but the Eagles played him at CB from what I recall. We had the legendary Nate Allen and Earl Wolff playing safety.

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/2013/9/3/4690678/philadelphia-eagles-2013-depth-chart-53-man-roster-chip-kelly

2 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

I would love to see a 2022 1st, Hurts, and a 2022 conditional 2nd for Watson. I think his market is shrinking.

I don't want Watson.  

23 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

"By their respective teams”.  So you mortgage the future trading for players, rent players or you can actually draft the players.  I don’t want them Rams approach to building a team.  Really was built to win this year. By the end of 2023 the window would have slammed shut.  No significant money for free agents and no draft capital. Lot of first round draft choices from other teams
 

2022 free agents

Von Miller

Darious Williams

Sony Michel

Austin Corbett

Odell Beckham, Jr.

Johnny Mundt

Donte Deayon

Buddy Howell

Joseph Noteboom

Coleman Shelton

Brian Allen

Travin Howard

John Wolford

Matt Gay

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo

Sebastian Joseph

Troy Reeder

Will Compton

Antoine Brooks Jr.

2023 Free agents

Matthew Stafford

Andrew Whitworth

A'Shawn Robinson

Rob Havenstein

Troy Hill

Taylor Rapp

Darrell Henderson

Justin Hollins

David Long

Bobby Evans

Matthew Orzech

Kendall Blanton

Greg Gaines

Xavier Jones

Marquise Copeland

Mike Hoecht

Bryce Perkins

David Edwards

Raymond Calais

Christian Rozeboom

Nick Scott

 

I wouldn’t go about how the Rams have done it. And not to that extreme. However I give the Rams credit because for the last 5 years they’ve won 11, 13, 9, 10 and 12. They’ve gone to 2 Super Bowls and they won a Super Bowl. And likely next year they’re still probably going to be a SB contender. so that’s six years of a window where they were a pretty good team competing for a super bowl 4 out of the last 5 years. 

again I wouldn’t go to the extreme the rams did in this because I think it’s going to collapse upon itself eventually and likely in 2023 I think you’re going to see them hit rock bottom. It’s kind of why I could see Aaron Donald retire and Sean McVay get out this year or next year. That said I still give them credit. We had a three-year run where we won a SB and won 13,9 and 9 games and then the window shut. The fact that they’ve been able to sustain 9-13 wins every year mcvay has been there is pretty impressive. The saints and chiefs are the only teams with more wins since 2017 and they’ve basically been using this method since drafting Goff. I’d argue only the chiefs 5 year window has been better. 

7 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

"By their respective teams”.  So you mortgage the future trading for players, rent players or you can actually draft the players.  I don’t want them Rams approach to building a team.  Really was built to win this year. By the end of 2023 the window would have slammed shut.  No significant money for free agents and no draft capital. Lot of first round draft choices from other teams
 

2022 free agents

Von Miller

Darious Williams

Sony Michel

Austin Corbett

Odell Beckham, Jr.

Johnny Mundt

Donte Deayon

Buddy Howell

Joseph Noteboom

Coleman Shelton

Brian Allen

Travin Howard

John Wolford

Matt Gay

Ogbonnia Okoronkwo

Sebastian Joseph

Troy Reeder

Will Compton

Antoine Brooks Jr.

2023 Free agents

Matthew Stafford

Andrew Whitworth

A'Shawn Robinson

Rob Havenstein

Troy Hill

Taylor Rapp

Darrell Henderson

Justin Hollins

David Long

Bobby Evans

Matthew Orzech

Kendall Blanton

Greg Gaines

Xavier Jones

Marquise Copeland

Mike Hoecht

Bryce Perkins

David Edwards

Raymond Calais

Christian Rozeboom

Nick Scott

 

Yup they kind of went all in with FA and trades and just kind of ignored the mantra that one builds through the draft, and while they did get a super bowl it's not really sustainable.

But hey would you rather put all your chips in and  have 1 super bowl then a few mediocre years of building towards another or go through the process of trying to build a sustainable team through the draft in hopes of competing for an extended time?

2 hours ago, justrelax said:

Dillard may not be as good as Mailata but that puts him in with the 27 other LTs in the league who aren't, and he's better than most of those. As for whether he is limited to LT, we don''t know that. It has been reported by several people that he's been trained at RT as well. But, forgetting that, what is a guy who can play LT at a high level in the league worth? No less than a conditional 3rd that converts to 2nd with certain performance targets. Certainly no less than that.

Eagles are in the driver seat with Dillard.  Looking at LT draft prospects and a limited free agency pool, he is worth more than what folks are appraising him as a trade option.  Plus there is film on him now that is pretty good.  No need to trade him until after the draft and his best value might even be at the trade deadline.  Plus Eagles don’t need 2022 draft capital and future year draft choices tend to be discounted. 

7 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

Eagles are in the driver seat with Dillard.  Looking at LT draft prospects and a limited free agency pool, he is worth more than what folks are appraising him as a trade option.  Plus there is film on him now that is pretty good.  No need to trade him until after the draft and his best value might even be at the trade deadline.  Plus Eagles don’t need 2022 draft capital and future year draft choices tend to be discounted. 

I'd say a team needing OL help and drafting in the second half of the first round would be the ideal customer.  They don't want to get stuck reaching, so addressing the position beforehand would be ideal for them.

34 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

I would say Jordan Poyer, Jordan Hicks, Bennie Logan, Jalen Mills, and Derek Barnett. You could also add Josh Sweat and Avonte Maddox. Poyer didn't play much for the Eagles, but he did make the All-Pro list. Jordan Poyer is probably the best defensive draft pick they have had since 2013 and he didn't even play for them.

Outside of the, the defensive players haven't been that great. Marcus Smith, Shareef Miller , Sidney Jones, Eric Rowe, and lots of others that have bare minimum contributions.

Sad when Bennie Logan makes that list, he was average at best with the eagles, after 4 unspectacular years with the eagles they let him walk and he played two more seasons one with KC one as a backup with Tenn.

He was disappointing.☹️

1 hour ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Fing Dave 

Dave has basically failed with social media for the Eagles. PE.com has Tommy Lawlor on its front page and his last article for them was 2019.