10 minutes ago, Waiting4Someday said:

What are the points for just 34 and a 2023 1st vs. 16?

Not sure on the 2023 1st but 32+34=1150. Pick 15 is 1050. 

2 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Man the opinions on Karlaftis are all over the place. I've seen him mocked in the top 5-10, and I've seen him barely crack round 1. What gives?

The combine will be very important for him. Maybe more so than any other top half of R1 guy. 

Just now, TorontoEagle said:

Where do you rank Zappe with Coan and Eleby?

Ahead by a round or two. 

52 minutes ago, RLC said:

The Lions will go EDGE at #2, then trade up for a QB in RD1. Which QB? Who knows.

The Lions are in a much more logical position to punt on QB for one more season, play the waiting game at QB and roll with Goff than the Eagles are having to roll with Hurts.

54 minutes ago, Outlaw said:

Karlaftis, Gardner, Linderbaum gives us the top CB, top IOL, and 3rd-5th best DE (I personally rate Ojabo and J Johnson above him) in R1. Not a bad haul. 

I LOVE Pitre. Watch some of his games. He’s an extremely versatile DB. He’s my 4th ranked safety behind Hamilton, Cine and Dax Hill. In addition to playing center field or in the box, he can also play slot. I do agree that’s a bit early for TE2 but they do need to upgrade that spot for 2 TE sets. Personally I’d say R4 at the earliest for guys like Ferguson, Whyle, Turner, etc. Also depends who is on the board when they took Dulcich  

Anyway, while it would not be perfect I’d be generally happy with that Day 1/2 haul. 

It isn't just the players that bother me, it's the way they're drafted, too.

Karlaftis I am not sold on. His length concerns me and I don't know that he'll be able to fill out much more given his frame. I'm not in the camp that thinks he'll bust, but I don't think he'll ever be special. Middle of the road player.

Gardner is a beast. No problem there.

Linderbaum I like, but I don't know that he's the right pick here, especially if Kelce is back. We have Seumalo that could potentially play center. We have Dickerson that can potentially (though I wouldn't) play center. I agree we need interior line depth, but I would rather address it later.

Pitre as a player is fine. My problem with this becomes we took sub par (IMO) talent in the first to get "stuck" with a lesser safety. Would I have rather taken Hill or Brisker at Linderbaum's spot and drafted interior line here? Absolutely.

Picking a backup TE in the third would be terrible. Here's a spot you could address interior line, again, had you not wasted a first on Linderbaum.

I'll pass, personally

 

5 minutes ago, Swoop said:

It isn't just the players that bother me, it's the way they're drafted, too.

Karlaftis I am not sold on. His length concerns me and I don't know that he'll be able to fill out much more given his frame. I'm not in the camp that thinks he'll bust, but I don't think he'll ever be special. Middle of the road player.

Gardner is a beast. No problem there.

Linderbaum I like, but I don't know that he's the right pick here, especially if Kelce is back. We have Seumalo that could potentially play center. We have Dickerson that can potentially (though I wouldn't) play center. I agree we need interior line depth, but I would rather address it later.

Pitre as a player is fine. My problem with this becomes we took sub par (IMO) talent in the first to get "stuck" with a lesser safety. Would I have rather taken Hill or Brisker at Linderbaum's spot and drafted interior line here? Absolutely.

Picking a backup TE in the third would be terrible. Here's a spot you could address interior line, again, had you not wasted a first on Linderbaum.

I'll pass, personally

 

Yeah I agree on most of those points. I’d personally go Jermaine Johnson or Ojabo over Karlaftis. And if going IOL R1 I definitely lean more Kenyon Green than Linderbaum, though I think Linderbaum is an amazing Kelce replacement. Green and Seumalo would battle for the RG spot in camp, loser becomes an awesome versatile IOL backup. I have Pitre over Brisker and close to Hill. No matter what any of us mock right now it’ll most likely be 85-95% wrong. Lol. I see potentially a ton of trading going on in R1/R2 this year. These two months between the SB and the draft are the worst months of the year for me. But draft weekend, I don’t leave my couch except to use the toilet and shower.

7 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

Where do you rank Zappe with Coan and Eleby? 

I would put Zappe behind both  , that being said , pretty sure Zappe is drafted before both 

I think Eleby has potential , certainly has all the physical tools for the position 

12 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I am very Meh on Karlaftis.  Seems like a run stopping edge sealer....not a dynamic rusher.  Johnson is a reach in the 1st...for now, be wary of late risers especially at edge.  And I would hate for us to draft a center in the first round.  Especially since it's apparent that Kelce is coming back for one more year.  Draft one later on and develop him.  You don't need an all pro center.  

I am meh as well on Karlaftis. Johnson’s Senior bowl week wowed me. He deserves R1. I agree there are decent C prospects later. If they want OL in R1, should be Kenyon Green. 

39 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

Man the opinions on Karlaftis are all over the place. I've seen him mocked in the top 5-10, and I've seen him barely crack round 1. What gives?

Karlaftis might have the highest floor outside of Hutchinson in the draft at DE. He is ultra-consistent and always brings his A game. His upside is questionable, how he tests at the combine will be very telling.

I would still rather go Walker or Johnson over him, and 50-50 with Ojabo.

11 hours ago, DoWorx said:

4 Howies - For picking a WR named Desean pretty much.  I don't think the Panthers would trade back to 19 given their needs but maybe.  I don't see anyway the Eagles trade up for Hamilton.  I think the only positions they trade up for are DE and QB.  

What If: One of the big 3 OTs drop to #15: Neal/Cross/Ekwonu. All three have positional versatility to play Guard.

Do we take em'? Plug them inside at Guard for a few seasons until Lane is ready to be replaced?

Some interesting scenarios come up when you simulate mock too much. 🤪

16 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Where are the Hurts Huggers?  I am curious to know their opinions on this report that the Eagles are expected to take a "major swing" at available QB's. 

And when I say I am curious, that means I am not because they are morons.  Just wondering when they will spit out the K o o L AID and swallow their pride.  

https://heavy.com/sports/philadelphia-eagles/jimmy-garoppolo-trade-rumors/

 

 

And when the word major is used, I am not thinking Jimmy G. BTW.

I am not necessary a Hurts Hugger, but I do think that he can get better as he was drafted as a player that needed a few years to develop and that he gets a terrible rap around here.

He reminds me of Sean McDermott a little bit in that Sean was brutalized as the worst coach to ever coach in the history of coaching, ends up leaving and people find out that hey he was actually a good coach.

With that said, I would not be shocked or upset if they went out and got a big time QB or drafted one, but I think it would be stupid if they brought in a Jimmy G, Jameis Winston type QB.

Also we should all know better that the Eagles are always linked to every single trade available this time of the year.

11 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Senior Bowl shouldn't dictate if a guy "deserves" R1.  I agree on Green.  Would be a steal at one of our spots.  

He was borderline R1 to begin with. Senior Bowl and combine will put him in the R1 mix definitively. 

Karlaftis has short arms, had relatively low production against lesser competition and likely won't add much weight.

I see him being a slightly better Barnett, without the penalties. Decent end, nothing special.

No thanks.

 

Fun but mostly irrelevant fact: 3 out of the past 6 Alan Page Community award winners have been Eagles. 

16 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

He's nothing like Barnett.  Bigger and much less bendy.  As far as a being an underwhelming edge rusher in the NFL?  Sure.  But Barnett had a ton of production in college.  Karlaftis, not so much.  

I meant Barnett in terms of NFL production, not play style/size.

25 minutes ago, pallidrone said:

I am not necessary a Hurts Hugger, but I do think that he can get better as he was drafted as a player that needed a few years to develop and that he gets a terrible rap around here.

He reminds me of Sean McDermott a little bit in that Sean was brutalized as the worst coach to ever coach in the history of coaching, ends up leaving and people find out that hey he was actually a good coach.

With that said, I would not be shocked or upset if they went out and got a big time QB or drafted one, but I think it would be stupid if they brought in a Jimmy G, Jameis Winston type QB.

Also we should all know better that the Eagles are always linked to every single trade available this time of the year.

Better is relative.  The question is not whether or not he can get better, but can he get to be 'good enough'?   

36 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

What If: One of the big 3 OTs drop to #15: Neal/Cross/Ekwonu. All three have positional versatility to play Guard.

Do we take em'? Plug them inside at Guard for a few seasons until Lane is ready to be replaced?

Some interesting scenarios come up when you simulate mock too much. 🤪

I would.

20 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Comparing a QB who lacks the necessary physical and mental traits to be a top QB in the league, to a young coach?  That's just odd.  QB's just don't "develop".  If that's the case, then there would be thousands of QB's in the HOF.  He's played 4 years in college....and more than a season in the NFL.  His weaknesses have been weaknesses all that time.  Sure, can a guy get better at reading coverages, of course.  Can a guy improve his accuracy by working on his fundamentals, yes.  Can a guy get better at the pre-snap part of the game, somewhat.  But can a guy do all of that AND vastly improve his arm talent?  No.  In order to do that, he needs a complete rework of his throwing motion.  That is a long process.  And that isn't even addressing the mental side of the game where he has always struggled.  He simply is Not good enough.  And the Eagles know that, have known that and will work to resolve that.   

That's where the draft choice in the first place made zero sense.  He was never going to be a guy that was a good pocket passer.  He was destined to be a guy in the Lamar Jackson mold, but with much less pure arm talent.  Had the Ravens drafted him to be the backup to Jackson it would have made a ton of sense, so that they didn't have to completely revamp their offense for a backup like Joe Flacco.   BUT, this team had to completely throw out their preferred offense to cater it to him and to cover up his deficiencies in the most important part of the game for an NFL QB.  It never made sense... even as they tried to talk about assets, or Taysom Hill (which has never made sense for the Saints either, but at least he was a UDFA.).  Hurts wasn't brought here to be the starter, but spending a 2nd round pick on a gadget player or backup QB is just ludicrous.  It was then, and it continues to be in hindsight.  

8 hours ago, Wentz_Era said:

There's 1 or 2 WR's in the NFL that actually can play at 4.2 speed.  Kupp is in the upper echelon in terms of in game speed IMO.  He's pretty darn fast and quick.

Quick, or agile. He is that.  Pure speed cannot beat his body control and quickness.  NFL gave both him and JJAW 6.20 scores predraft.  The difference was obvious though.  Krupp put up a 6.75 3 cone and a 4.08 short shuttle.  JJAW put up a 7.23 ((bigger MIKE level) and 4.41.  So while JJAW ran sub 4.5, his lack of quickness shows in the NFL.  And Jalen Reagor is even worse.  7.31 and 4.46.  (For comparison, T J Edwards put up a 7.06 and 4.28 - that’s right - Edwards is quicker than Reagor or JJAW )  JJAW actually has real good splits.  The problem with him is his utter lack of quickness.  Watch him stop and turn, he takes an extra step to do it and loses his separation.  That shows on his college film.  Reagor just seems:too lazy or entitled to work on improving.   So, speed is overrated.  

40 splits are more of a tale of speed for most players than the 40 itself because no NFL player starts from a starter position. But the three cone and short shuttle do give an indication of quickness.  

Speed without quickness is just running fast and one gear speed is the worst.  Take DJax.  His route running and that gear box were phenomenal.  He could seem to be running at full speed, make a move and create separation that made up for his size.  While not having his speed but good enough speed, Smith shows the same ability. My comp for him was Marvin Harrison, who was uncoverable because of his quickness.  

Too many kids, Reagor being one of them, are the fastest kid on the field and think, I will just run by the other player.  Not in the NFL, and certainly not with one gear speed.  Make up speed matters at DB more than fast does for most WRs.  For all his focus on analytics, Howie tends to fail in the need for quickness in WRs in his evaluations. When the combine rolls around watch those 3 cone and Short Shuttle scores on your target WRs. They will confirm whether the player is quick or not.   Then go back and watch game film, not just highlights.

Now, quickness isn’t enough.  Hands and discipline matter.  Fulgham looks statistically like Michael Thomas but his hands and discipline are miles apart.

1 hour ago, Original Sin said:

I would put Zappe behind both  , that being said , pretty sure Zappe is drafted before both 

I think Eleby has potential , certainly has all the physical tools for the position 

Chad Pennington strikes me as a comp for Coan.  He is kind of Minshew 2.0.  Accurate to 15 yards but past that can be an adventure because of arm strength and delivery.

49 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

What If: One of the big 3 OTs drop to #15: Neal/Cross/Ekwonu. All three have positional versatility to play Guard.

Do we take em'? Plug them inside at Guard for a few seasons until Lane is ready to be replaced?

Some interesting scenarios come up when you simulate mock too much. 🤪

That’s when you line up suitors and trade down. The second in line suitor, you offer Dillard to for the same price.

1 minute ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I’m convinced they thought they could flip Hurts for a future pick, either during that draft or after that season.  

I hear ya, but you don't use a draft pick on a player with the intention of treating him like a stock commodity in the 2nd round.  Hubris.  And the comment about the QB factory after the fact just highlighted their thinking and hubris.  

The more mock draft scenarios I see, the more I don't mind pulling the trigger on Jameson Williams.

Btw, what do the OL experts of the board think of Penning? Too tall for guard, I imagine?

2 minutes ago, Saltpeter said:

The more mock draft scenarios I see, the more I don't mind pulling the trigger on Jameson Williams.

Sure.  With what pick?  

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Well of course you don't.  That's why I hated the pick when it happened.  It was obviously dumb.  

It was almost universally condemned.  Then afan came and told us it would cost $10M/year to sign a backup QB, so this was the best route.   

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Comparing a QB who lacks the necessary physical and mental traits to be a top QB in the league, to a young coach?  That's just odd.  QB's just don't "develop".  If that's the case, then there would be thousands of QB's in the HOF.  He's played 4 years in college....and more than a season in the NFL.  His weaknesses have been weaknesses all that time.  Sure, can a guy get better at reading coverages, of course.  Can a guy improve his accuracy by working on his fundamentals, yes.  Can a guy get better at the pre-snap part of the game, somewhat.  But can a guy do all of that AND vastly improve his arm talent?  No.  In order to do that, he needs a complete rework of his throwing motion.  That is a long process.  And that isn't even addressing the mental side of the game where he has always struggled.  He simply is Not good enough.  And the Eagles know that, have known that and will work to resolve that.   

I am comparing the hatred that Hurts receives to the same hatred and vitriol that McDermott received when he was here. McDermott never had a chance here to develop into a defensive coach. If the fans and front office gave him a chance, he could have done wonders here. He was a dead man walking from the day he was named the interim defensive coordinator. 

I don't know if Hurt can or can not get better. Maybe he can or maybe he can't. I mean colleges like Alabama and Oklahoma are not interested in teaching a kid how to read a defense, throw with anticipation, or anything like that. They want to win by any means necessary and that means changing their offense to fit whatever their QB can do. That means when a QB enters the NFL he has to be broken down and reworked and retrained to do things the proper way and that QB has to be willing and open to that change. 

To definitely say that there is no possible way for a young kid to get better seems short-sighted to me. I am not saying that he will get better, just that I am open to the possibility that he could.

However, like I said I wouldn't be shocked or upset if they went out and got a big-time QB. What I don't want the Eagles to do is to just throw away picks and/or resources on a QB that may be slightly better than Hurts is. That to me is just a waste.