1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

It's been well documented. His injury came during the pre-season after his rookie year.  He was never the same player again.  AND he basically blamed Eagles' team doctors of misdiagnosing his injuries.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763063-jordan-matthews-really-bad-diagnoses-by-eagles-doctors-caused-injuries

He was never a great player.  He was always a slot only WR.  It's also well documented.   It's also well documented that they passed on Davonte Adams and Allen Robinson to take him... actually, to trade UP to get him.

5 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

🤡  Jordan Matthews was drafted in 2014.  Wentz was drafted in 2016.  Wentz was friends with the guy.  Like he was with Ertz and others.  How was he "enamored” with Matthews after his rookie season again?   How was the entire city enamored with him?  
 

Speaking of revisionist history.  

He was Wentz' top target during WENTZ' rookie year.

Howie tried to make his coach happy...and STILL got pushed out by Chip. Kelly flamed out in the NFL.

Reminder: Chip was the worst.

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

It's been well documented. His injury came during the pre-season after his rookie year.  He was never the same player again.  AND he basically blamed Eagles' team doctors of misdiagnosing his injuries.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2763063-jordan-matthews-really-bad-diagnoses-by-eagles-doctors-caused-injuries

The article you posted is from 2018, after he had a down year with the Bills, who traded for him and gave him a physical which he passed. 

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2022/01/19/howie-roseman-jalen-hurts-has-done-enough-to-be-eagles-starter-in-2022/

This is expected talk... but brutal to read nonetheless.  I guess it is logical "posturing."

Until the Owner/GM fires himself and his enabling lackey, this team is not going to get back to the levels we thought we were going to be at after 2017.  They drew the absolute wrong conclusions about their own abilities following that magical year.  We have been paying the price since and will continue to do so...

I do expect either an "aggressive" move for a QB, in some fashion, or God help us if they same two clowns are ultimately making these three huge picks (I know... "collaborative approach" etc.).  How can you get excited over the current state of the team, with Jalen Hurts as the alleged unquestioned starter and the same idiots making the picks.  At this point, if they had three picks in the top ten I would expect them to get it mostly wrong.

It's funny to think about what failures were Howie and which ones were Chip... one thing is for sure... neither should ever be making selections in a draft.  Ultimately the owner was/is far more involved and responsible for the mess, though he hides his influence behind the lackey.  This appears to be the case with many, if not most owners.  The most successful resist the urge and delegate this enormous responsibility to someone qualified and capable.  Ironically, the Cowboys owner has done this out front and unapologetically for so many years, he and his team have become better than most at identifying and ultimately selecting talented players.

24 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Sure.  Blame Chip for those.  Howie wasn't put in the corner until the Nelson Agholor failure draft... with Agholor, Rowe, etc.  

 

But, Howie always has someone around to put the blame on.  It's never Howie, it's always someone else's fault.

I’ve always looked at it this way 2013 and 2014 drafts I feel like there was a collaboration on those two. Then Howie Roseman got sent to the basement and that was all chip Kelly in 2015.

and if we really want revisionist history, the 2013 draft we were super fortunate that the Dolphins were dumb enough to take Dion Jordan because the eagles wanted Dion Jordan over lane Johnson.

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

He was Wentz' top target during WENTZ' rookie year.

And?   Do you remember the other options at WR that year?  A confused and conflicted Nelson Agholor, Dorial Green-Beckham, Josh Huff and Paul Turner.  

 

Doesn't mean anyone was 'enamoured' with him... and Wentz had an MVP level season the season he was traded away in PS... seems Wentz recovered just fine.

3 minutes ago, RLC said:

Howie tried to make his coach happy...and STILL got pushed out by Chip. Kelly flamed out in the NFL.

Reminder: Chip was the worst.

Chip was worse than Howie.

 

That doesn't help Howie's case.   

 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He was never a great player.  He was always a slot only WR.  It's also well documented.   It's also well documented that they passed on Davonte Adams and Allen Robinson to take him... actually, to trade UP to get him.

In one of the deepest wide receiver draft classes in recent history, the Eagles selected Matthews in the second round of the 2014 NFL Draft.

With the Eagles previously moving on from both DeSean Jackson and Jason Avant, there were big expectations surrounding Matthews, as he would have to compete with fellow rookie Josh Huff for the third receiver spot behind Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper.

Luckily for Philadelphia, Matthews didn’t disappoint as a rookie after playing in all 16 games while racking up 872 yards and eight touchdowns on 67 catches, earning a 72.2 grade from Pro Football Focus.

Matthews also had three 100-yard performances in his rookie season, one of which came on a big Monday Night Football game in Week

After Nick Foles suffered a broken collarbone, Mark Sanchez was making his first start as a member of the Eagles in a primetime game.

Sitting at 6-2, the Eagles need to continue their momentum and they did just that during a 45-21 win over the Carolina Panthers that helped Philadelphia improve to 5-0 at home.

During the win, Matthews collected 138 yards and two touchdowns on seven catches. This was a signature game where we really saw what Matthews was made of, and it was quite the night for Sanchez as well after the quarterback celebrated at Geno’s Steaks following the game.

 

A man on a mission

One year later, Matthews fell just three yards short of a 1,000-yard season and put up eight touchdowns once again. The 85 receptions by Matthews ranked 15th in the NFL, and he was one of the lone bright spots in an overall disappointing season

This season also featured another big performance under the bright lights for Matthews as well.

After losing to the hated Dallas Cowboys in Week 2, the Eagles needed to get revenge against Jerry Jones and company

In Week 9, Matthews was a man on a mission that night after finishing with 133 receiving yards and a touchdown on nine catches.

What made this performance even more memorable for Matthews was that touchdown catch gave Philadelphia the walk-off win in overtime.

2016 was another significant year in which Matthews would need to step up as the top target for rookie quarterback Carson Wentz. It wasn’t perfect, but Matthews didn’t have a bad year by any means after picking up 804 receiving yards and three touchdowns on 73 receptions.

There were some more frequent drops here and there, but it was still another successful season for Matthews from an overall perspective. He also helped Wentz get comfortable early on in his NFL debut that year by hauling in seven receptions for 114 yards and a touchdown.

Matthews established himself as a guy who could be relied upon both out of the slot and on the outside. Matthews might not have been a No. 1 caliber receiver, but he was certainly a respectable second or third option to work with in the passing game.

 

Unfortunately, Matthews was given up as part of the exchange for Darby along with a third-round pick. Matthews had to learn a new scheme within a matter of weeks and was expected to perform right away in Buffalo, but would end up suffering multiple injuries throughout the season and ended up playing in just 10 games, putting up only 282 receiving yards and a touchdown.

 

https://insidetheiggles.com/2020/05/16/philadelphia-eagles-happened-wide-receiver-jordan-matthews/4/

 

 

1 hour ago, Peppersmacks said:

So your argument in response to my opinion that you shouldn't spend a 3rd round pick on guys who are way overage though later picks are fine is to go back 60 years and talk about a 10th round pick.  Really strong stuff, you've clearly shown me the errors of my thinking.

Glad I could help.

4 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

I’ve always looked at it this way 2013 and 2014 drafts I feel like there was a collaboration on those two. Then Howie Roseman got sent to the basement and that was all chip Kelly in 2015.

and if we really want revisionist history, the 2013 draft we were super fortunate that the Dolphins were dumb enough to take Dion Jordan because the eagles wanted Dion Jordan over lane Johnson.

Agreed.  But then, you eliminate the credit for Howie's best draft ever... 2013 - Lane Johnson and Zach Ertz.  

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Agreed.  But then, you eliminate the credit for Howie's best draft ever... 2013 - Lane Johnson and Zach Ertz.  

I'll credit Chip for both Johnson and Ertz.  Probably the two best players to come out of that "era".   But if you want to credit Howie and Chip, that's ok too. 

Just a point out with the whole Jordan Matthews thing there was a bunch of people on here in 2015 and 2016 that said his numbers were inflated because the Eagles had trash at wide receiver and he was the only WR target that was anything decent. I was one of those people that said I wouldn’t give him a contract extension because I think those numbers are super inflated by the fact our wide receivers were so bad so he got targeted more by wentz and Bradford. And that turned out to be true because his career after he left here he was not that good

Just now, 4for4EaglesNest said:

Uh. Yeah.  And?  Does that mean he was "enamored” by him?  Or did you just learn that word and wanted to use it?  

Use any word you want, the team and the entire city were "high" on Matthews and deservedly so.  He was really good his rookie year and during Wentz' rookie year.   His decline came from multiple off-season/pre-season injuries and it showed after he was traded to Buffalo. 

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

In one of the deepest wide receiver draft classes in recent history, the Eagles selected Matthews in the second round of the 2014 NFL Draft.

With the Eagles previously moving on from both DeSean Jackson and Jason Avant, there were big expectations surrounding Matthews, as he would have to compete with fellow rookie Josh Huff for the third receiver spot behind Jeremy Maclin and Riley Cooper.

Luckily for Philadelphia, Matthews didn’t disappoint as a rookie after playing in all 16 games while racking up 872 yards and eight touchdowns on 67 catches, earning a 72.2 grade from Pro Football Focus.

Matthews also had three 100-yard performances in his rookie season, one of which came on a big Monday Night Football game in Week

After Nick Foles suffered a broken collarbone, Mark Sanchez was making his first start as a member of the Eagles in a primetime game.

Sitting at 6-2, the Eagles need to continue their momentum and they did just that during a 45-21 win over the Carolina Panthers that helped Philadelphia improve to 5-0 at home.

During the win, Matthews collected 138 yards and two touchdowns on seven catches. This was a signature game where we really saw what Matthews was made of, and it was quite the night for Sanchez as well after the quarterback celebrated at Geno’s Steaks following the game.

 

A man on a mission

One year later, Matthews fell just three yards short of a 1,000-yard season and put up eight touchdowns once again. The 85 receptions by Matthews ranked 15th in the NFL, and he was one of the lone bright spots in an overall disappointing season

This season also featured another big performance under the bright lights for Matthews as well.

After losing to the hated Dallas Cowboys in Week 2, the Eagles needed to get revenge against Jerry Jones and company

In Week 9, Matthews was a man on a mission that night after finishing with 133 receiving yards and a touchdown on nine catches.

What made this performance even more memorable for Matthews was that touchdown catch gave Philadelphia the walk-off win in overtime.

2016 was another significant year in which Matthews would need to step up as the top target for rookie quarterback Carson Wentz. It wasn’t perfect, but Matthews didn’t have a bad year by any means after picking up 804 receiving yards and three touchdowns on 73 receptions.

There were some more frequent drops here and there, but it was still another successful season for Matthews from an overall perspective. He also helped Wentz get comfortable early on in his NFL debut that year by hauling in seven receptions for 114 yards and a touchdown.

Matthews established himself as a guy who could be relied upon both out of the slot and on the outside. Matthews might not have been a No. 1 caliber receiver, but he was certainly a respectable second or third option to work with in the passing game.

https://insidetheiggles.com/2020/05/16/philadelphia-eagles-happened-wide-receiver-jordan-matthews/4/

That's a great article.  Did it mention how many snaps it took to get those stats because they were running so many plays with that ridiculous NASCAR speed up offense?  That his stats were aided by the novelty of the Chip system coming to the NFL and took some time for teams to catch on and shut it down? 

He wasn't a good pick.  Adams sitting there... Robinson sitting there... those are guys that were true #1 WRs.  Matthews was a slot WR that needed a gimmick offense to be his most effective.

1 minute ago, Ace Nova said:

Use any word you want, the team and the entire city were "high" on Matthews and deservedly so.  He was really good his rookie year and during Wentz' rookie year.   His decline came from multiple off-season/pre-season injuries and it showed after he was traded to Buffalo. 

Uh... no.

 

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Weren’t those Chip Kelly picks? 

No, the one draft where the Eagles picked a bunch of Ducks had nothing to do with Chip.  

Just now, NCiggles said:

 

No, the one draft where the Eagles picked a bunch of Ducks had nothing to do with Chip.  

Nope. It wasn't until the next season that Chip took over.  

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a great article.  Did it mention how many snaps it took to get those stats because they were running so many plays with that ridiculous NASCAR speed up offense?  That his stats were aided by the novelty of the Chip system coming to the NFL and took some time for teams to catch on and shut it down? 

He wasn't a good pick.  Adams sitting there... Robinson sitting there... those are guys that were true #1 WRs.  Matthews was a slot WR that needed a gimmick offense to be his most effective.

Uh... no.

He wasn't JJAwful.  

2 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

That's a great article.  Did it mention how many snaps it took to get those stats because they were running so many plays with that ridiculous NASCAR speed up offense?  That his stats were aided by the novelty of the Chip system coming to the NFL and took some time for teams to catch on and shut it down? 

He wasn't a good pick.  Adams sitting there... Robinson sitting there... those are guys that were true #1 WRs.  Matthews was a slot WR that needed a gimmick offense to be his most effective.

Yeah except the fact that teams had already begun to adjust to Kelly's offense after his first year.  The offense was already "slowed down" by the time Chip entered his 3rd season and by then, he was basically running variations of the same half dozen plays, over and over again.  It's the part of the reason he didn't even last his entire 3rd year. 

I like the toughness of the o-line and a little bit on the d-line, but watching the playoff games this weekend, we are no where near as physical, tough, fast and decisive as these other teams. We need to get players in that mold. The back 7 specifically, receivers, running backs and more on the d-line. 

17 minutes ago, Iggles_Phan said:

He was never a great player.  He was always a slot only WR.  It's also well documented.   It's also well documented that they passed on Davonte Adams and Allen Robinson to take him... actually, to trade UP to get him.

Yep. 

That was another draft for fit rather than overall talent.  Matthew's had almost all of his production on passes at the LOS and quick slants.  He ran the chip style horizontal offense.

Same thing that was done with Reagor over Jefferson. They wanted the burner to finally replace the revolving door at that position that was filled by Jackson, Wallace, and Smith.

 

1 minute ago, NCiggles said:

No, the one draft where the Eagles picked a bunch of Ducks had nothing to do with Chip.  

Howie still ran the draft.  Chip lobbied... Howie selected.    No one said it wasn't influenced by Chip, just that Howie was still the one with the final say.  Which is why they didn't draft Taylor Hart in Round 3 that year.  

Chip deserves his blame... as does Howie.

Just now, Ace Nova said:

Nope. It wasn't until the next season that Chip took over.  

And yes, the year after that is when Chip took over.  That's documented.   

4 minutes ago, NCiggles said:

He wasn't JJAwful.  

Yup.  He's better than JJAW.  

 

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Yeah except the fact that teams had already begun to adjust to Kelly's offense after his first year.  The offense was already "slowed down" by the time Chip entered his 3rd season and by then, he was basically running variations of the same half dozen plays, over and over again.  It's the part of the reason he didn't even last his entire 3rd year. 

Yes, I'm well aware.  Year 1, Matthews benefitted.  Year 2, he still benefitted, but less.  Year 3, it started to fall apart, and Matthews was still the tallest midget of the WR corps.  He was the best of a very weak group... which is why the team went out and got Alshon Jeffery AND Torrey Smith in 2016, and tried to trade for Smith in 2015.