4 minutes ago, HazletonEagle said:

Yeah.  Thibodeaux is fairly unimpressive as a DE. if a team is looking for a 3-4 OLB he can be the top guy there.  But if he's looked at as a DE it's very easy to place others ahead of him. 

He said teams don’t like his ankle bend and stiffness and think he’s going to measure smaller than he’s listed at. 

Whoa. 60.7%!!!!
 

 

 

 

 

Whoopty f’ing do 

BDN!!! Let’s get #9 back in the building 

1 hour ago, BigEFly said:

While this doesn’t change my issues about Hurts not having good pocket awareness, relying on his legs too much, speed of reading and anticipating the WR open, I found this commentary on Reich’s offense about Wentz to be telling.   There has been a lot of commentary about Hurts throwing short balls near the LOS.  I think that is what the Reich offense focuses on and that may offer some insight into why at times Hurts missed seeing open receivers.  

6. So-called game managers won’t get you beat. Wentz will.

Reich drilled the safe throw into his quarterback throughout the season, often telling Wentz in meetings, "I want you looking here first.” And the fact that Wentz threw just seven interceptions over 516 passing attempts — third-fewest in the league among starting quarterbacks — is proof that Reich got through to him, at least on some level.

But it’s the reckless decision-making that became, at times, debilitating to the offense and the team, especially in tight games. The left-handed throw against the Titans on Halloween (no, Wentz isn’t absolved from blame because the ensuing safety was a better option than merely an interception), then his awful interception in overtime of the same game. The terrible pick against the Patriots. The regression against the Jaguars. The list goes on.

Wentz found a way to beat the Colts too often last season. The thinking could be a safer quarterback, like a Teddy Bridgewater, wouldn’t make as many crippling mistakes.

This may be why Hurts gets ranked much higher by FO and PFF than people on this board.

Not making crucial mistakes (Stafford got away with two in the SB) is as important as making big plays.

And this is where Hurt's running is really valuable, 3rd and 8, less mobile QBs would force a ball into a tight window, Hurts keeps and runs for the 1st down

"But, he's not a good passer!"  No, but he didn't make a mistake and turn the ball over on a key drive, either.

Doesn't mean Hurts doesn't have a lot to improve, but there's a reason some mobile, weak armed QBs had a lot of success (Smith, Garcia), while strong arm QBs struggle their whole career - just because you can throw it 40 yards doesn't mean you should throw it 40 yards into double coverage.

25 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

You realize the difference is 4th qtr comebacks, meaning they were losing the game in the 4th qtr and then won the game compared to just 4th qtr stats?  

And the survey says.....you don't!  

You simply have to be trolling with this one.  Many on here have said as much but I didn't fully buy in.  This troll hammer smashed me over the head with such utter force I can no longer deny your intentions.   

 

The only 4th quarter comeback I could remember this season was the Eagles beating CAR 21-18 by scoring a TD in the 4th quarter, but that was largely set up by a punt-block IIRC.  Upon checking the schedule they also scored a 4th quarter TD to beat a WFT that had already quit for the season in Week 17.  Hurts’ stats against CAR were 22-37 (59%) for 198 yards with 0 passing TDs, 1 INT and 2 rushing TDs.  Not exactly legendary stuff.  Pretty sure they also lost a game with the lead in the 4th quarter against the Chargers.

So Hurts’ record would be 2-1 for the season in games decided in the 4th quarter, greatly aided by a ST play in CAR.  Seems to indicate a lot of 4th quarter garbage-time stuff in the losses, and being in the trailer rather than driving the truck in a lot of the wins.

19 minutes ago, ManuManu said:

He said teams don’t like his ankle bend and stiffness and think he’s going to measure smaller than he’s listed at. 

Yeah it stands out how lean he is for the position.  I don't see him having nearly enough strength to be a full time DE any time soon.  He's mostly a speed rusher only for at least a few years.  And if he's a speed rusher without good bend...

Hurts splits:

4 AFC games, 63.1%, 7-1, 7.9 YPA  103.3 rating

10+ yards to go, 80 1st downs in 351 snaps, including 10 by running, 6 of 37 with 3 and 10+.

Red Zone, 59.3%, 13-1, 9 rushing TDs, 102.7 rating

as far as garbage time - trailing, 61.2%, 8-7, 16 sacks, 83.3 rating. trailing, 4 minutes to go, 59.4%, 3-0, 200 yards.

His problems are between the 20s, but get to the red zone, few QBs were better.

 

 

10 minutes ago, austinfan said:

This may be why Hurts gets ranked much higher by FO and PFF than people on this board.

Not making crucial mistakes (Stafford got away with two in the SB) is as important as making big plays.

And this is where Hurt's running is really valuable, 3rd and 8, less mobile QBs would force a ball into a tight window, Hurts keeps and runs for the 1st down

"But, he's not a good passer!"  No, but he didn't make a mistake and turn the ball over on a key drive, either.

Doesn't mean Hurts doesn't have a lot to improve, but there's a reason some mobile, weak armed QBs had a lot of success (Smith, Garcia), while strong arm QBs struggle their whole career - just because you can throw it 40 yards doesn't mean you should throw it 40 yards into double coverage.

I think crucial mistakes are more than just a turnover.  Hurts had several terrible redzone throws that should have been easy TDs amd cost is games.  In the playoffs he missed Quez 2x times 5 yards beyond the CB with no deep safety in sight.  The quick slant pass was eliminated from the play book because he can't throw it and it cost us a lot of 3rd down conversions as Smith is almost always wide open on slants.  

Once Hurts hurt his ankle is 3rd down running was minimized.  But just because you can run on 3rd and 8 and maybe get the 1st down doesn't mean you should. 

1 hour ago, Alphagrand said:

People talk like trading one of our first round picks for a first in 2023 is like Howie snapping his fingers.  No NFL team has done that trade from the Eagles draft position in more than a decade.  RLC pointed out the Eagles did it by trading with CAR in 2008.  Great, once in the last 14 years.

I think it's fair to say that Howie will try to do this, but if he's set on trading out the most likely scenario is a 1 and a 2 or 3 depending on how far they trade back.

29 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

The only 4th quarter comeback I could remember this season was the Eagles beating CAR 21-18 by scoring a TD in the 4th quarter, but that was largely set up by a punt-block IIRC.  Upon checking the schedule they also scored a 4th quarter TD to beat a WFT that had already quit for the season in Week 17.  Hurts’ stats against CAR were 22-37 (59%) for 198 yards with 0 passing TDs, 1 INT and 2 rushing TDs.  Not exactly legendary stuff.  Pretty sure they also lost a game with the lead in the 4th quarter against the Chargers.

So Hurts’ record would be 2-1 for the season in games decided in the 4th quarter, greatly aided by a ST play in CAR.  Seems to indicate a lot of 4th quarter garbage-time stuff in the losses, and being in the trailer rather than driving the truck in a lot of the wins.

here are hurts tds in the 4th quarter 

Atl: 22-6 4 mins- throws td 

Sf: down 17-3 with 4 mins left— rushing td

dallas: down 41-14 with 3 mins left in 4th— throws td

KC: down 42-23 with 11 seconds— throws td

panthers: down 18-13 with 2:32 left— rushes for a td

Bucs: down 28-14 with 6 mins left— rushes for a td 

Raiders: down 33-14 with 3 mins left— throws a td

Chargers: down 24-17 with 6 mins left— throws td

Saints: up 33-22 with 4 mins left— rushes for td

Wft: up 20-17 with 7 mins left— rushes for a td

Giants: up 20-3 with 12 mins left— pass td

bucs: down 31-7 with 5 mins left— passing td 

10 minutes ago, Freshmilk said:

I think crucial mistakes are more than just a turnover.  Hurts had several terrible redzone throws that should have been easy TDs amd cost is games.  In the playoffs he missed Quez 2x times 5 yards beyond the CB with no deep safety in sight.  The quick slant pass was eliminated from the play book because he can't throw it and it cost us a lot of 3rd down conversions as Smith is almost always wide open on slants.  

Once Hurts hurt his ankle is 3rd down running was minimized.  But just because you can run on 3rd and 8 and maybe get the 1st down doesn't mean you should. 

Hurts being careful with the football is also a false narrative; he’s actually pretty damn careless with the football.

18 fumbles in 2 seasons.  3 of those fumbles were as a utility-gadget player getting a few snaps a game, before he took over the starting QB role.  So in 19 NFL starts Hurts has fumbled the ball 15 times.  That’s not good.  It’s actually historically bad.  If you look at the all-time leaders in fumbles it’s made up of QBs who played 15-20 NFL seasons.  Generally they fumbled the ball 8-10 times per season.  15 fumbles in 19 NFL starts is historically bad.  Coincidentally, Lamar Jackson has fumbled the ball 37 times in 49 starts; not quite as bad as Hurts but also really bad 

Trying to look at comparables, Josh Allen is 29 fumbles in 61 games, Mayfield is 27 fumbles in 60 games, Kyler Murray is 27 fumbles in 46 games.  Wentz is actually the closest I could find at 66 fumbles in 85 games.  Very close to as bad as Hurts, but Hurts still tops the list. 

 

All of Hurts’ 13 career INT came after he took over the starting QB position against GB in 2020, so that’s 13 INT against 22 TD passes in 20 games.  At least Lamar can fall back on 84 TD passes against 31 INT, and Wentz 140 TD against 57 INT 
 

You’ve got to look awfully hard to see a lot of upside here. 

2 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Right here are hurts tds in the 4th quarter 

Atl: 22-6 4 mins- throws td 

Sf: down 17-3 with 4 mins left— rushing td

dallas: down 41-14 with 3 mins left in 4th— throws td

KC: down 42-23 with 11 seconds— throws td

panthers: down 18-13 with 2:32 left— rushes for a td

Bucs: down 28-14 with 6 mins left— rushes for a td 

Raiders: down 33-14 with 3 mins left— throws a td

Chargers: down 24-17 with 6 mins left— throws td

Saints: up 33-22 with 4 mins left— rushes for td

Wft: up 20-17 with 7 mins left— rushes for a td

Giants: up 20-3 with 12 mins left— pass td

bucs: down 31-7 with 5 mins left— passing td 

What that demonstrates is with a better defense, the Eagles might have got the ball back and had a chance to score in several of those games they lost.  That’s not an endorsement of Hurts, it just shows that the stats don’t prove much similar to the stats posted by AFan don’t prove much.  Imagine what Gannon might be able to accomplish with better players. Pressure is on Howie to perform in a contract year.  

50 minutes ago, austinfan said:

This may be why Hurts gets ranked much higher by FO and PFF than people on this board.

Not making crucial mistakes (Stafford got away with two in the SB) is as important as making big plays.

And this is where Hurt's running is really valuable, 3rd and 8, less mobile QBs would force a ball into a tight window, Hurts keeps and runs for the 1st down

"But, he's not a good passer!"  No, but he didn't make a mistake and turn the ball over on a key drive, either.

Doesn't mean Hurts doesn't have a lot to improve, but there's a reason some mobile, weak armed QBs had a lot of success (Smith, Garcia), while strong arm QBs struggle their whole career - just because you can throw it 40 yards doesn't mean you should throw it 40 yards into double coverage.

How many times did he throw the ball away on 4th down this year...that's just scratching the surface on the comically long list of mistakes Hurts made.  That 3rd down INT in the RZ against the Giants (I believe) before half time comes to mind instantly too.

1 hour ago, Freshmilk said:

You realize the difference is 4th qtr comebacks, meaning they were losing the game in the 4th qtr and then won the game compared to just 4th qtr stats?  

And the survey says.....you don't!  

You simply have to be trolling with this one.  Many on here have said as much but I didn't fully buy in.  This troll hammer smashed me over the head with such utter force I can no longer deny your intentions.   

 

 

Hurts doesn't play defense.  He played well enough to get the Eagles back in position to win games in the 4th quarter multiple times this season and multiple times this season the defense came up short in the 4th quarter.  The only time the defense came through in the 4th was the Panthers game.  It's undeniable the kid was a late game clutch factor which is big with QBs.  We improve the defense and we start seeing some 4th quarter wins becoming a staple of this team.  

4 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

What that demonstrates is with a better defense, the Eagles might have got the ball back and had a chance to score in several of those games they lost.  That’s not an endorsement of Hurts, it just shows that the stats don’t prove much similar to the stats posted by AFan don’t prove much.  Imagine what Gannon might be able to accomplish with better players. Pressure is on Howie to perform in a contract year.  

I think it goes both ways, the O was bad...really bad, at staying on the field.  As bad as the defense was at times, when you're spending 10 mins more a game on the field than the O (and remember teams came out to huge leads on us often), that's more indicative of the O.

2 minutes ago, Wentz_Era said:

How many times did he throw the ball away on 4th down this year...that's just scratching the surface on the comically long list of mistakes Hurts made.  That 3rd down INT in the RZ against the Giants (I believe) before half time comes to mind instantly too.

 

Yet people here are pining for Jimmy G.

 

 

2 minutes ago, RememberTheKoy said:

 

Yet people here are pining for Jimmy G.

 

 

Who is exactly?

18 hours ago, ManuManu said:

Yep. Jimmy G is propped up by a superstar YAC king and playcaller. 

He’s not terrible, but he serves almost no purpose to the Eagles. He’s not good enough to be a truck, and we aren’t good enough to pull the trailer. 

If Hurts is as bad as most think, and the schedule is a lot harder, we could bottom out into a top pick. Jimmy G wouldn’t elevate us, but he’d probably keep us from bottoming out. That probably does more harm than good. 

A lot of people give McVay crap...I view Shanny the same, he's anything but a superstar play caller.  His offense has no identity or rhythm.  No disrespect to Deebo because he's a great weapon, but outside of kittle that O is a bunch of tinker toys.  His gameplan shifted from force Kittle the ball, to force Deebo the ball after Kittle broke down.  Deebo is a season, maybe 2 from falling off a cliff from the usage.  Then he's back to square 1.  

5 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Who is exactly?

No one. He's an idiot and a troll. 

He argued with me daily when I said that Allen showed more promise as a rookie than Hurts. Said I was a liar and blocked me. Now he tries to use it as a crutch, as if Hurts will ascend the NFL ladder like Allen has.

Either he truly is that stupid of a human being or he's a trash bag. Maybe both.

Just now, Wentz_Era said:

A lot of people give McVay crap...I view Shanny the same, he's anything but a superstar play caller.  His offense has no identity or rhythm.  No disrespect to Deebo because he's a great weapon, but outside of kittle that O is a bunch of tinker toys.

 That may change if Brady is the 49’ers QB week one.  Finally some drama. 
 

 

7 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

Who is exactly?

 

2 minutes ago, Swoop said:

No one. He's an idiot and a troll. 

He argued with me daily when I said that Allen showed more promise as a rookie than Hurts. Said I was a liar and blocked me. Now he tries to use it as a crutch, as if Hurts will ascend the NFL ladder like Allen has.

Either he truly is that stupid of a human being or he's a trash bag. Maybe both.

I wouldn't be opposed to Jimmy G, at the right price.  I think he has a lot of potential in an actual NFL offense.  He is prone to the occasional hospital ball and brain fart though.  I'm not giving up more than a 4th for him though given the situation.

1 hour ago, austinfan said:

This may be why Hurts gets ranked much higher by FO and PFF than people on this board.

Not making crucial mistakes (Stafford got away with two in the SB) is as important as making big plays.

And this is where Hurt's running is really valuable, 3rd and 8, less mobile QBs would force a ball into a tight window, Hurts keeps and runs for the 1st down

"But, he's not a good passer!"  No, but he didn't make a mistake and turn the ball over on a key drive, either.

Doesn't mean Hurts doesn't have a lot to improve, but there's a reason some mobile, weak armed QBs had a lot of success (Smith, Garcia), while strong arm QBs struggle their whole career - just because you can throw it 40 yards doesn't mean you should throw it 40 yards into double coverage.

So against playoff teams you are telling me these aren’t critical mistakes

dallas game he threw an int when driving in Dallas territory (down 7-0) and then throws a pick 6 when it was still 20-7 and basically is ball game. 

Bucs he throws a pick down 14-7 deep into Bucs territory (might have changed how the end of that game goes).

raiders game he fumbles the Ball inside the red zone

Bucs playoff game: throws an int with smith open in the end zone and then throws another pick two series later 

So in 4 of the 6 playoff teams he faced he had a turnover. And 6 turnovers in those games. Along with a turnover in each of the last 3 games. all year including playoffs he had 13 turnovers. Meaning about 46% of his turnovers came in 6 games against playoff teams. The defense was not good against playoff teams. No one is denying that however the offense was equally not that good (for the majority of those games). When you average 19 points per game against playoff teams that’s not good enough to beat playoff teams (without garbage time tds vs. Dallas, KC, raiders and Bucs playoff game it’s down to 12.8 ppg). That’s actually down against playoff teams from 2020 where we were at 21.2ppg with imo a worse roster and worse QB play. 

1 minute ago, Wentz_Era said:

 

I wouldn't be opposed to Jimmy G, at the right price.  I think he has a lot of potential in an actual NFL offense.  He is prone to the occasional hospital ball and brain fart though.  I'm not giving up more than a 4th for him though given the situation.

That’s fair enough, but you’re definitely not pining for him lol. 

Just now, The Blackfish said:

 That may change if Brady is the 49’ers QB week one.  Finally some drama. 
 

 

I honestly can't see it, unless Brady comes in and puts Shanny in the corner, installs a new O and Ayuik/Deebo learn to run actual routes.

10 minutes ago, Alphagrand said:

Hurts being careful with the football is also a false narrative; he’s actually pretty damn careless with the football.

18 fumbles in 2 seasons.  3 of those fumbles were as a utility-gadget player getting a few snaps a game, before he took over the starting QB role.  So in 19 NFL starts Hurts has fumbled the ball 15 times.  That’s not good.  It’s actually historically bad.  If you look at the all-time leaders in fumbles it’s made up of QBs who played 15-20 NFL seasons.  Generally they fumbled the ball 8-10 times per season.  15 fumbles in 19 NFL starts is historically bad.  Coincidentally, Lamar Jackson has fumbled the ball 37 times in 49 starts; not quite as bad as Hurts but also really bad 

Trying to look at comparables, Josh Allen is 29 fumbles in 61 games, Mayfield is 27 fumbles in 60 games, Kyler Murray is 27 fumbles in 46 games.  Wentz is actually the closest I could find at 66 fumbles in 85 games.  Very close to as bad as Hurts, but Hurts still tops the list. 

 

All of Hurts’ 13 career INT came after he took over the starting QB position against GB in 2020, so that’s 13 INT against 22 TD passes in 20 games.  At least Lamar can fall back on 84 TD passes against 31 INT, and Wentz 140 TD against 57 INT 
 

You’ve got to look awfully hard to see a lot of upside here. 

Well the fumble stat is misleading.  He lost 2 fumbles in 2021.  Wentz lost five this past year with the Colts.  Josh Allen lost three fumbles last year.  Part of this result goes to where fumbles were lost.  Hurts fumbled several times out of bounds.  No harm on those.  Hurts was sloppy with his interception rate and that needs to be improved on.  Several of those were on improvised plays.  Hero ball.    But that is against the drawn up play.  So were a bunch of his runs.  Hurts must cut down on those.  

Sirianni needs to invest in several hoops of decreasing size and in live drills forbid Hurts to run and not throw the ball if a defender isn’t inside the hoop.  And blow the play dead if he does or if more than 2.3 seconds go by.  Ingrain that into his process.