6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Well, they do count rush yards so I'd be thinking more like 3,400 yards, 65% completion, 7 NY/A, 27-9 (including rush TDs).

This year, 61.3%, 3144 + (784 yards), 16 + (10) - 9, 6.54 NY/A.

He only needs incremental improvement to reach those goals.

Now, I'd ditch the RPO, but Hurts should get 500+ yards on designed runs, QB draws and scrambles. And yes they have value, if you force a team to keep a player in to spy, it takes a player out of the pass rush and coverage. His running has value, not enough to build the offense around it, but enough to augment his passing.

And there lies the problem.  We are talking about a QB, but the default response is rushing yards.

3 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Honest question, would you support the Eagles brining back Wentz if Indy made a reasonable offer? 

Nope.  That book is closed.  Either Watson, Pickett, Strong or Ridder.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

And there lies the problem.  We are talking about a QB, but the default response is rushing yards.

And rushing yards and TDs by a QB don't count? So if you throw a 5 yard TD pass you're more valuable than if you run it in from 5 yards?

7 minutes ago, austinfan said:

And rushing yards and TDs by a QB don't count? So if you throw a 5 yard TD pass you're more valuable than if you run it in from 5 yards?

If you have Josh Allen's passing stats, then rushing yards are a bonus you take.  If you have to add rushing yards and not come close to upper echelon QB's passing numbers, that is a problem.

4 minutes ago, austinfan said:

And rushing yards and TDs by a QB don't count? So if you throw a 5 yard TD pass you're more valuable than if you run it in from 5 yards?

And how many TDs did Hurts run in on Sunday?

 

The point is, once a team takes away our ability to run effectively, Hurts has not shown the capability to be an efficient passer. 

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

And rushing yards and TDs by a QB don't count? So if you throw a 5 yard TD pass you're more valuable than if you run it in from 5 yards?

They’re fine as an add-on, a bonus. Look at Allen for example…the dude has a rocket arm that will be one of the upper echelon QBs for years. The fact that he can run is like the sprinkles on the frosting on the cake. For Jalen, you HAVE to count his rushing yards + passing yards together to show an average year yardage wise for a QB. It’s not sustainable. You don’t think every team watched what the Bucs did? He’s going to have to drastically improve his passing skills to be successful next year. 

8 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope.  That book is closed.  Either Watson, Pickett, Strong or Ridder.

I agree on the book being closed but is it really the time to pick a QB. I would rather they all get picked before the Eagles 1st pick and push high quality defensive players down to us. What's wrong with QB in 2023 and letting the other desperate teams grasp at a bunch of low rated prospects? Or, take one of them in RD 2 after getting all the top D talent possible.

I had to bring this from the Hurts thread.  I really can not believe he made this statement.  Not sure what he is trying to say.

 

24 minutes ago, GeorgeM37 said:

You can make one of the most compelling and logical arguments (and you really did) and the fact is no matter what you say or prove....a large majority of these fans do not want Hurts here and are unwilling to give him anymore time. And they will swear it has everything to do with sportsmanship. But I applaud your effort here...it really is well thought out and very logical but I honestly think you are wasting your time. 

 

13 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope.  That book is closed.  Either Watson, Pickett, Strong or Ridder.

no on watson, draft a qb and roll with him

5 minutes ago, Next_Up said:

I agree on the book being closed but is it really the time to pick a QB. I would rather they all get picked before the Eagles 1st pick and push high quality defensive players down to us. What's wrong with QB in 2023 and letting the other desperate teams grasp at a bunch of low rated prospects? Or, take one of them in RD 2 after getting all the top D talent possible.

Two fold issue.  You have the draft capital now, and you have no idea what the class in 2023 will look like.  You then could have another 9-8 season, leaving you with the 19th pick, and no extra first rounders at your disposal to move up.

17 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Nope.  That book is closed.  Either Watson, Pickett, Strong or Ridder.

I know most wouldn't, but I would add Wilson to that list as well, either way we need a QB in the most desperate sense. So trade for one or find one you like enough to draft.

Also, even if the Eagles end up making 3 picks in the first round, don't expect any more than 1 on the defensive side. This league is all about offense, all these playoff teams have high powered offenses, defense is an afterthought.

When is the last time we even heard about team defensive rankings? I don't think I've heard any mention of which team is the #1 defense or whatever like we used to in the Ray Lewis days.

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

I had to bring this from the Hurts thread.  I really can not believe he made this statement.  Not sure what he is trying to say.

 

 

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

Two fold issue.  You have the draft capital now, and you have no idea what the class in 2023 will look like.  You then could have another 9-8 season, leaving you with the 19th pick, and no extra first rounders at your disposal to move up.

It's the Joe Burrow/Zach Wilson issue. Just because a draft class has high level QB prospects, and a team has extra draft capital, it doesn't mean they can move up to get said high level prospect.

Carolina and Miami were willing to give a blank cheque of draft picks to CIN for Burrow, but they said no. So even if we have multiple picks in 2023, if the teams with the top 3 picks like the QBs, there's nothing we can do.

Why does Hurts have to be Allen or Mahomes? How many QBs in the next five drafts will be Allen or Mahomes? Watson isn't as good as Allen or Mahomes, neither is Wilson. Rodgers is, but he'll be 39 and I doubt he has Brady's gene pool.

How about Hurts being a better version of Hurts, one that makes quicker reads, has better mechanics, is more comfortable in the pocket. I don't know if that's will happen, but given he's only 23 with 21 NFL starts it's not out of the realm of the possible.

If Herbert couldn't take the Chargers to the playoffs, much less the SB, if all those strong arm QBs drafted the last few years  couldn't either, maybe we should build a SB capable team first, instead of watching a strong arm QB (see McNabb, after 2008, Vick, Bradford, Wentz) come up short year after year.

Hurts is what he is as a passer. The leap he needs to make to become a good one is too big. It doesn't matter that he's 23. His skill is what it is.

6 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Why does Hurts have to be Allen or Mahomes? How many QBs in the next five drafts will be Allen or Mahomes? Watson isn't as good as Allen or Mahomes, neither is Wilson. Rodgers is, but he'll be 39 and I doubt he has Brady's gene pool.

How about Hurts being a better version of Hurts, one that makes quicker reads, has better mechanics, is more comfortable in the pocket. I don't know if that's will happen, but given he's only 23 with 21 NFL starts it's not out of the realm of the possible.

If Herbert couldn't take the Chargers to the playoffs, much less the SB, if all those strong arm QBs drafted the last few years  couldn't either, maybe we should build a SB capable team first, instead of watching a strong arm QB (see McNabb, after 2008, Vick, Bradford, Wentz) come up short year after year.

Who is left in the QB.  Mahommes, Allen, Burrow, Rodgers, Stafford the best arms in the NFL.  Then you have the GOAT, Tannehill who is no slouch in the arm strength department and Jimmy G.

Where are all the QB's who ran their way into the playoffs ??

9 minutes ago, D-Shiznit said:

I know most wouldn't, but I would add Wilson to that list as well, either way we need a QB in the most desperate sense. So trade for one or find one you like enough to draft.

Also, even if the Eagles end up making 3 picks in the first round, don't expect any more than 1 on the defensive side. This league is all about offense, all these playoff teams have high powered offenses, defense is an afterthought.

When is the last time we even heard about team defensive rankings? I don't think I've heard any mention of which team is the #1 defense or whatever like we used to in the Ray Lewis days.

The trend in the NFL these days is to get smaller and faster on defense, and take the big play away. This will continue the next few years - but it means a team that can power run can dictate to defenses - I'd say our problem against TB was as much the lack of a power back behind our OL as it was Hurts - we couldn't get those tough 3-4 yard runs that wear down a defense, set up 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 4, slow down a pass rush and open up the passing game in the second half. And you don't have to find these guys early, there are always guys 5'11  225 with 4.6 speed but good burst and vision.

26 minutes ago, EagleJoe8 said:

And how many TDs did Hurts run in on Sunday?

 

The point is, once a team takes away our ability to run effectively, Hurts has not shown the capability to be an efficient passer. 

The biggest point is every time the Eagles played a playoff teams with Jalen hurts as the starter it wasn’t just the Defense that sucked. They lost by an average of 14.5 points (could easily be more if not for garbage time stats and points). The eagles offense averaged only 19 points per game against those playoff teams (without hallow garbage time stats it’s closer to 13 points). Even before reaching the playoffs against the Buccaneers, the Eagles struggled against playoff teams. At some point in time if your quarterback isn’t consistent enough to make routine NFL throws then a good defensive coordinator in the playoffs is going to take away what you do best which is running the ball. And the eagles don’t have a good enough passing attack or defense to win any other way  

todd bowles is not an idiot. The reason why he stacked the box was it was a win-win either way for him. He knew Jalen hurts wasn’t good enough or consistent enough with routine NFL throws to beat his defense. So stack the box and if the eagles run into a stacked box then they’ll have a long day of 16 yards on 7 rushes like sanders had (Boston Scott’s touchdown run happened in the 4th down 31-0 it was another garbage time td for the eagles). And if they try to throw instead of rushing into that stacked box, the eagles weren’t gonna beat the bucs because Jalen hurts isn’t good enough of a passer. Hence it was a win-win strategy for bowles.

1 minute ago, austinfan said:

The trend in the NFL these days is to get smaller and faster on defense, and take the big play away. This will continue the next few years - but it means a team that can power run can dictate to defenses - I'd say our problem against TB was as much the lack of a power back behind our OL as it was Hurts - we couldn't get those tough 3-4 yard runs that wear down a defense, set up 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 4, slow down a pass rush and open up the passing game in the second half. And you don't have to find these guys early, there are always guys 5'11  225 with 4.6 speed but good burst and vision.

We couldn't get 3-4 yard runs because of Hurts, not the offensive live and tight ends.  Six guys can't block eight defenders.  Teams will continue to stack the box because Hurts does not have the arm or decision making ability to make them pay for it.    

5 minutes ago, austinfan said:

The trend in the NFL these days is to get smaller and faster on defense, and take the big play away. This will continue the next few years - but it means a team that can power run can dictate to defenses - I'd say our problem against TB was as much the lack of a power back behind our OL as it was Hurts - we couldn't get those tough 3-4 yard runs that wear down a defense, set up 2nd and 6 and 3rd and 4, slow down a pass rush and open up the passing game in the second half. And you don't have to find these guys early, there are always guys 5'11  225 with 4.6 speed but good burst and vision.

Tell me about the power back offenses in KC, LA, TB, Buf, Cin, SF, TEN ( who didnt have Henry clinching the one seed ) and GB.

1 minute ago, downundermike said:

Who is left in the QB.  Mahommes, Allen, Burrow, Rodgers, Stafford the best arms in the NFL.  Then you have the GOAT, Tannehill who is no slouch in the arm strength department and Jimmy G.

Where are all the QB's who ran their way into the playoffs ??

Uh, look at their teams, KC, Buf, GB, LA are easily in the top ten, maybe top five in overall talent. Same with TB, TEnn.

Jimmy G made a pass that almost lost the game that would have gotten Hurts crucified around here.

Bills and KC were the only two of the six winning playoff teams to put up 400+ yards of offense. Only one losing team got as many as 21 points. Guess defense matters.

8 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Why does Hurts have to be Allen or Mahomes? How many QBs in the next five drafts will be Allen or Mahomes? Watson isn't as good as Allen or Mahomes, neither is Wilson. Rodgers is, but he'll be 39 and I doubt he has Brady's gene pool.

How about Hurts being a better version of Hurts, one that makes quicker reads, has better mechanics, is more comfortable in the pocket. I don't know if that's will happen, but given he's only 23 with 21 NFL starts it's not out of the realm of the possible.

If Herbert couldn't take the Chargers to the playoffs, much less the SB, if all those strong arm QBs drafted the last few years  couldn't either, maybe we should build a SB capable team first, instead of watching a strong arm QB (see McNabb, after 2008, Vick, Bradford, Wentz) come up short year after year.

Did you actually watch the playoff game? 

Re Herbert: this is a troll-level argument.

2 minutes ago, austinfan said:

Uh, look at their teams, KC, Buf, GB, LA are easily in the top ten, maybe top five in overall talent. Same with TB, TEnn.

Jimmy G made a pass that almost lost the game that would have gotten Hurts crucified around here.

Bills and KC were the only two of the six winning playoff teams to put up 400+ yards of offense. Only one losing team got as many as 21 points. Guess defense matters.

Maybe we need a better GM.

As far as the Eagles against playoff teams, duh. They were 4-11-1 last year, I had them at 7-10 this year, they weren't that talented. And very inexperienced on offense, and slow on defense.

Of course they struggled against teams with superior talent.

Gee, it was a rebuild, no, we made the playoffs, the rebuild is over, we should be a top team. It's all Hurts' fault.

Maybe y'all should take a step back, I didn't expect them to be a serious contender until 2023, and nothing has fundamentally changed.

Even with all the draft picks this year, it usually takes 2 years before the bulk will be NFL ready.

Kiper on SportsCentre said the same thing, that he is hearing from his NFL contacts that Willis is the #1 QB in this draft. Kiper has him mocked to the WFT at #11.