3 minutes ago, e-a-g-l-e-s eagles! said:

Again his contract is going to be restructured regardless of who gets him. If the Texans were going to keep them they were going to restructure the contract. That’s how the contract was set up. There’s a lot of room to restructure that to lower his number. he’s going to be restructuring that contract. What do you think the Eagles were gonna do with Carson Wentz if they kept him? They were going to restructure that contract to lower his number to create cap space.

I use spotrac they are usually better than over the cap. 

I don’t know what Deshaun Watson’s going to do here. All I know is the Houston Texans have in a dumpster fire for the last 2 years making bad decisions after bad decisions. So if I was a quarterback in my prime and I didn’t want to waste my prime and I also would want my input heard as they continued to waste and make horrible decisions. you’re not gonna believe everything that’s coming out of the Houston Texans?  This is the organization that hired a head coach and then a year later fired him. And allowed to O’Brien to be a dope and trade the best wide receiver in the league at that time for a broken down running back in a second round pick.  I don’t exactly believe everything that comes out of the Houston Texans organization. I think they’re kind of full of crap

I just don't like the cost it will take to get Watson. As far as I know the Texans are still looking for 3 firsts and more. That is way too much for a team that is not ready to win now. This would be a better move for the Broncos/Raiders/Vikings to make as they are a lot closer.

Would you trade 3 firsts plus a starter to get Watson?

3 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You have your opinion.  Nick Foles body of work tells a different story.  He went to Jacksonville, got hurt immediately, came back, lost his job to Minshew.

Everybody in the world - "The sky is blue"

Ace Nova - "My opinion is the sky is brown, we have to agree to disagree"

3 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

I just don't like the cost it will take to get Watson. As far as I know the Texans are still looking for 3 firsts and more. That is way too much for a team that is not ready to win now. This would be a better move for the Broncos/Raiders/Vikings to make as they are a lot closer.

Would you trade 3 firsts plus a starter to get Watson?

I would not trade Watson for three 1sts.  But now that the GM has all but said that Watson will not play for the Texans again, they do not have leverage.  If the trade is a 1st this year, a 1st in 2023, a later round pick this year and a player, you do that deal immediately.

4 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

You talked about Watson's reaching his ceiling in the same post about Hurts not reaching his ceiling.  

A Strawman argument would go like this:

AceNova- "I like Jalen Hurts".

4for4- "Why do you hate winning in the playoffs"?

 

Not when you reference both QB's and their potential in the same post and then argue that you weren't comparing them.  

 

So does that mean you recognize that their ceiling's are vastly different?  

I love the fact that he’s reach the ceiling even though his entire career he’s played with a bottom 10 offensive line (pff and espn), a declining running game, a bunch of nobodies at TE. He’s had good wide receivers that’s about it. Meanwhile the Eagles have massive upgrades to tight end, oline and rushing attack (since 2019 for Texans). And still have smith and Watkins who likely are even better with him. Somehow he’s reached a ceiling even though he had all those things going against him in Houston besides WRs. Meanwhile if he came here he gets all those advantages but he couldn’t get better? Please. 

 

46 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

No, I don't think they will have enough draft capital or cap space to build a defense if they spend it on acquiring Watson. Watson has a $40 million cap hit in 2022 and $42 million in 2023, they are not only going to have to use high picks to get him but are going to have to sign him to an extension. Or you take the massive cap hits and you only have him for 2 years before you can cut him.

How are you going to add pieces to the defense with less draft capital and no cap space? Is it worth doing all of that for 2 years of Watson?

I'm sorry but if Howie can't figure this out we're screwed one way or the other for quite a long time

12 minutes ago, Han Solo said:

I'm really hoping that one of those QB prospects is on the board at our first pick and Pittsburgh and New Orleans are both on the phone with us in a bidding war, and we manage to trade down and pick up an extra 2nd round pick.

 

Its really a Catch 22.  If enough QBs are picked before our picks, then we have decent guys fall to us, or those guys get picked and push the QBs down to our picks opening the door for a small trade down.

I'd much rather the QBs go early and often forcing really excellent players to fall right in Howie's lap to pass on. 

2 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

It's obviously not always the case, given the examples I stated above.  

We'll need to agree to disagree on this. 

Your reading comprehension needs improvement.   I didn't say always, so I didn't touch that absolute.  You gave one example, Foles.  I'm going to help you out with the list of QBs that weren't considered to be a top QB when the played to have won a SB:

Plunkett, D. Williams, Rypien,  Hostetler,, Foles (both weren't the starter and didn't play most of the season), Dilfer, Johnson, Flacco- these account for 9 SB wins out of 55 played- 16%.  So, 84% of the SB victories are won by excellent to super solid to great QBs.  But sure, we can agree to disagree.

36 minutes ago, BigEFly said:

The mocks are fun but unrealistic.  They have players misevaluated all over the place.   The scouts are way ahead of us and highlights mislead.  But playing the mocks should make it clear, the holes aren’t going to be fixed in one offseason of free agency or draft.

They never are... and just a reminder... if they go into the draft trying to fix all the holes... 

 

That's how they fell into Marcus Smith, Danny Watkins, Jalen Reagor, JJAW, and many other bad bad draft picks.   Early on especially, they can't be caught up in the idea of trying to 'fill a hole', but instead should be looking to 'increase the base line talent level of the team'.   This team had two Pro Bowlers/All-Pros this past year, as an example.  That's generally not good enough.  They need more top level talent... at ANY position.  If they can add a Pro Bowl level talent at any position, the team just improved drastically.  If they can add TWO, so much the better.  And even if they still have holes in multiple places, just adding top talent at any position will ultimately improve this team.  

There's really no position that they could possibly draft a guy that is going to become a Pro Bowler or All-Pro that wouldn't be a massive improvement for this team.  So, especially in Rounds 1 - 3, they need to be laser focused on talent and fit, and not get caught up in trying to find a DE or a S versus a CB or LB or even an OL.  (WR and RB would likely be a poor use of resources in Round 1, probably in Round 2 as well... but after that... it would be fine too and necessary.) 

Welp, who's the 3rd going to be?  Meatloaf... now Louie Anderson.

38 minutes ago, downundermike said:

 

If someone can quote and ask this question, why come into the blog and make this statement when you have everyone on the other side of the argument on ignore ???

Better yet... why not just stop responding to him, thinking about him or giving him any notice?   

2 minutes ago, downundermike said:

You have your opinion.  Nick Foles body of work tells a different story.  He went to Jacksonville, got hurt immediately, came back, lost his job to Minshew.

Yet, he was a leader here who galvanized the team around him and won a Super Bowl with the team.  The next season, took a team that was almost "done" for the season, won every game he needed to win and got them into the playoffs.  (They had a 15% chance of making the playoffs when he took over). And he won a playoff game and was driving to win another one until the unfortunate drop/int.   

Foles was the guy for this team at the time.  And I won't get into how much better the team itself would have been had they decided to stick with Foles.  (In terms of draft capital, free agency, salary cap, etc).  Biggest mistake in recent team history, imo. 

And this is in no way a shot at Wentz.  If anything, he could have gone on and had a "fresh start" in Indy, with a lot less drama, etc.  In all likelihood, it would have worked out for everyone involved.  

2 minutes ago, wussbasket said:

I just don't like the cost it will take to get Watson. As far as I know the Texans are still looking for 3 firsts and more. That is way too much for a team that is not ready to win now. This would be a better move for the Broncos/Raiders/Vikings to make as they are a lot closer.

Would you trade 3 firsts plus a starter to get Watson?

I never said to do the trade at the cost. My point was you were going to be able to restructure that contract to open cap space so that’s not what’s going to make me deter from making that trade. 

what would deter me is if the Houston Texans stay on that stance and he has all these things off the field going on. And if these off the field issues don’t get resolved. 

frankly I don’t see the Houston Texans being able to make a trade with any team unless they’re willing to take conditional picks until his off the field issues are solved. If i am the Texans I want his off the field issues resolved before the new league year starts. Otherwise I’m at a disadvantage with my cap space heading into FA. 

6 minutes ago, Ace Nova said:

Yet, he was a leader here who galvanized the team around him and won a Super Bowl with the team.  The next season, took a team that was almost "done" for the season, won every game he needed to win and got them into the playoffs.  (They had a 15% chance of making the playoffs when he took over). And he won a playoff game and was driving to win another one until the unfortunate drop/int.   

Foles was the guy for this team at the time.  And I won't get into how much better the team itself would have been had they decided to stick with Foles.  (In terms of draft capital, free agency, salary cap, etc).  Biggest mistake in recent team history, imo. 

And this is in no way a shot at Wentz.  If anything, he could have gone on and had a "fresh start" in Indy, with a lot less drama, etc.  In all likelihood, it would have worked out for everyone involved.  

All I will say, one of the biggest knocks on Wentz was injury prone.  Every season Foles went into a season as a starter he was injured.

6 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Welp, who's the 3rd going to be?  Meatloaf... now Louie Anderson.

Could only be Carrot Top.

18 minutes ago, TorontoEagle said:

What if what? They had kept Foles? He's an insanely streaky QB (both good and bad streaks), and really, he was not good until that Minny game. Then he was unstoppable for the 2 most important games in Eagles history. But he was never the long term solution. A great back-up, but you can't rely on him as a starter. Same as our current situation.

Yup.   I absolutely love Nick Foles, one of his biggest supporters.  BUT...

 

you have to recognize who he is.  He is that streaky guy that went 27-2... and also a guy who got shut down for 3 straight quarters against the Saints in the playoff game in 2018... or barely put up points in the Wild Card game that year... or barely managed to get past the Falcons in 2017, including a very fortuitous bounce off a jumping (for no reason) Falcons' DB that landed in Torrey Smith's arms and managed to steal a FG at the end of that half, rather than giving the Falcons the chance to get a FG instead.  That 6 point swing would have completely changed that game and everything to follow never happens.  Nick had a great NFC CG and Super Bowl... but he wasn't good against the Raiders that year, in a 'must win' type game, and wasn't that great in 2018 either, frankly, especially in the playoffs.   Foles was the type of guy that was a great backup, because he could go on a streak like that and just play lights out... or he could be off that day and struggle tremendously.   

Happy Patrick Robinson Day. That guy deserves a plaque in the corner of the end zone. 

8 minutes ago, bpac55 said:

Welp, who's the 3rd going to be?  Meatloaf... now Louie Anderson.

I thought Louie Anderson died years ago. Turns out...it was just his career.

7 minutes ago, downundermike said:

All I will say, one of the biggest knocks on Wentz was injury prone.  Every season Foles went into a season as a starter he was injured.

Whether they kept Nick Foles or did what they did and went with Carson, I don’t think it was sustainable for either one of them. The roster in 2019 was not good. The only reason why we made the playoffs that year was because the division was so awful and Carson Wentz got hot at the right time against the crap nfc east. Like go look at that roster in December. And tell me that roster you had in December started the season that they would make the playoffs?  We all would’ve laughed. And then it continued in the 2020 with bad QB play, 14 different starting olines and like 30 different combinations, a bad defense and a crap WR corps that relied on rookies during a pandemic as upgrades . Whether was Carson or whether it was Nick Foles neither one of those two were going to be set up to have great success because the rosters were drastically declined by 2019 and 2020 from what it was in 2017 and 2018 

Absolute f'ing dime.  Jalen Hurts will never be able to make a throw like this.

 

 

1 minute ago, Iggles_Phan said:

Yup.   I absolutely love Nick Foles, one of his biggest supporters.  BUT...

 

you have to recognize who he is.  He is that streaky guy that went 27-2... and also a guy who got shut down for 3 straight quarters against the Saints in the playoff game in 2018... or barely put up points in the Wild Card game that year... or barely managed to get past the Falcons in 2017, including a very fortuitous bounce off a jumping (for no reason) Falcons' DB that landed in Torrey Smith's arms and managed to steal a FG at the end of that half, rather than giving the Falcons the chance to get a FG instead.  That 6 point swing would have completely changed that game and everything to follow never happens.  Nick had a great NFC CG and Super Bowl... but he wasn't good against the Raiders that year, in a 'must win' type game, and wasn't that great in 2018 either, frankly, especially in the playoffs.   Foles was the type of guy that was a great backup, because he could go on a streak like that and just play lights out... or he could be off that day and struggle tremendously.   

As an Arizona alum and having watched him up close in Arizona for years, he’s always been that. People forget he was projected as a first round pick before his senior season. I remember because it was absolutely huge for Arizona football that they had somebody go on SportsCenter. Because with Arizona football that almost never happens. He fell to the third round because he was super inconsistent his senior year. He was super hot and then got super cold and then was super hot again. That was one of the reasons why he fell where he did.

 

5 minutes ago, downundermike said:

All I will say, one of the biggest knocks on Wentz was injury prone.  Every season Foles went into a season as a starter he was injured.

Foles has been injured.  (100% injury rate in the NFL, btw).  Super Bowl + Playoff wins trumps any injury concerns, imo.  

2 minutes ago, 4for4EaglesNest said:

I never said I don't think they were never planning on using those picks for QB.  It's actually the opposite.

You think there is enough of an upside to work with (Hurts)....I don't.

You think the Eagles acquired those picks to build up the team...not go after a QB (Watson)....I don't.

 

We don't agree, at all.  With any of it.  

 

I never said how they were planning on using the picks other than drafting. I never said they didn't plan on drafting a QB.

I don't think Hurts has much of an upside at all. That doesn't mean there is some room for improvement either. He's just a place holder in my mind. I agree with you Hurts is only here because there really are no clear options ATM.

So the only thing we disagree on is if the picks were to make a run at Watson. Lurie said the goal was to acquire draft picks long before Watson was an option. My option for most of a full year now is that we not reach for a QB and wait for what is likely going to be better options next year, which is also what you believe.

Again, splitting hairs. I'm not going to try and make you believe I mostly agree with you.

Gotta love it.  Darby gets absolutely destroyed, but it was the last block to get Robinson to the endzone.