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Kz!

"Don't Say Gay" Bill

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It seems like a big enough deal that this should get its own thread. I guess the biggest question is, why is it so important for Dems to sexually groom children from kindergarten through 3rd grade? 

Why the media campaign to lie about what's in the bill? For ishlibs, does it ever get weird seeing the media make a concerted effort to blatantly lie to you, or is it just SOP at this point?

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The funniest part is all the libs thinking it's actually called "Don't Say Gay" and losing their minds over it - like Ron Perlman :roll: YOUR SIDE CAME UP WITH THE NAME YOU IDIOT

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:roll: 

 

This dude. :lol: 

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I’ll be honest, I don’t know anything about it. I’m neither gay, nor from Florida.

What about about the issue has you two following it so passionately?

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The fallacy is the notion that gays are "groomed" from a certain age. Or that you can convert somebody to/from becoming gay. That's not how it works. The Florida bill is unnecessary  government overreach in schools. It goes too far so I am against it.

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Just another example of who the real snowflakes are in this crapfest.

 

We have to make safe spaces for bigots.

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Toaster comes in and proves that yet again he has no idea what we're even talking about, shocking absolutely no one. 

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12 minutes ago, MidMoFo said:

I’ll be honest, I don’t know anything about it. I’m neither gay, nor from Florida.

What about about the issue has you two following it so passionately?

It's made national news. The white house has publicly come out against it. It was referenced at the Oscars. Corporations like Disney are speaking out against it.

 

13 minutes ago, toolg said:

The fallacy is the notion that gays are "groomed" from a certain age. Or that you can convert somebody to/from becoming gay. That's not how it works. The Florida bill is unnecessary  government overreach in schools. It goes too far so I am against it.

So you want public schools to teach about sexual orientation to K-3rd grades. Why?

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16 minutes ago, Toastrel said:

Just another example of who the real snowflakes are in this crapfest.

 

We have to make safe spaces for bigots.

image.png.d769ea3fd8793c8c5e441ab36eb051f1.png

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Since it's pretty clear that most of you have no clue what the bill is actually about, here's a pretty good synopsis

Quote

1. What does the bill do?

According to its text, House Bill 1557 is an attempt to "reinforce the fundamental right of parents to make decisions regarding the upbringing and control of their children.“

The new law prohibits schools from enacting policies that prevent the disclosure to parents of "critical decisions affecting a student’s mental, emotional, or physical health or well-being.” Schools could still withhold certain information if they believe the disclosure would result in abuse, neglect or abandonment.

Another key provision in the measure prohibits "classroom instruction by school personnel or third parties on sexual orientation or gender identity” in kindergarten through third grade. And it could prohibit the teaching of those topics in higher grades "in a manner that is not age-appropriate or developmentally appropriate” according to state standards.

The seven-page bill, which will take effect July 1, also:

  • Sets a deadline of June 30, 2023, for the state to come up with updated standards that could decide what "age-appropriate” instruction looks like.
  • Requires schools to notify parents of any health care services being offered to children, and give the opportunity for families to opt out of them.
  • Requires schools to get the permission of a parent before administering any "well-being questionnaire or health screening” to a child in kindergarten through third grade.
  • Allows parents to sue in court if they believe a school violates the new law, or request the Commissioner of Education to appoint a "special magistrate” to get to the bottom of a complaint. (School districts would pay for the magistrate.)

2. Why do some people call the bill ‘don’t say gay’?

The bill as originally filed prohibited school districts from encouraging "classroom discussion” about sexual orientation or gender identity in "primary grade levels.” Opponents of the bill interpreted that provision to be a ban on speaking about LGBTQ topics in classrooms and started using the "don’t say gay” moniker.

The bill’s sponsors, Sen. Dennis Baxley, R-Ocala, and Rep. Joe Harding, R-Williston, amended the bill in the hopes of making it clear it would only be restricting lessons related to those subjects. Conversations between students and teachers about, for example, a child’s two mothers, would still be allowed under the bill, the sponsors said.

But the nickname stuck. And opponents of the legislation continued to express concerns about the effects of the bill, for three main reasons.

First, opponents say a broad restriction particularly aimed at sexual orientation and gender identity will have a chilling effect on teachers — making educators question what kind of dialogue students can have with trusted adults in the classroom. "Legislators are trying to knock out the supports that LGBTQ youth have,” said Cathryn Oakley, the state legislative director at the Human Rights Campaign, an LGBTQ advocacy group.

Second, advocates worry the bill targets policies aimed at keeping LGBTQ youth from being outed to their parents by school districts.

According to a House bill analysis from February, some school districts — Broward and Palm Beach for example — had policies that prohibited schools from disclosing a student’s sexual orientation without their consent. The new law could preempt such policies.

Finally, there’s the general climate around LGBTQ youth issues in America. In at least 12 Republican-led states, including Florida, policymakers have passed laws restricting the rights of transgender females to participate in scholastic sports. In Texas, the Republican attorney general and governor are calling on parents who give transgender kids gender-affirming care to be subject to child abuse investigations.

Critics of the Florida bill point to those measures and say HB 1557 is another blow to vulnerable children.

Supporters of the bill say Florida schools have a genuine problem when it comes to keeping parents up to speed on changes to student services.

January Littlejohn, who spoke at Monday’s bill signing, spoke about how a Leon County school put her 13-year-old child on a "student support plan” without parental notification after the younger Littlejohn raised the possibility of being nonbinary, according to a lawsuit filed by the family.

"When parents are excluded from critical decisions ... it sends the message to children that their parents’ input and authority are no longer important,” January Littlejohn said.

3. What are the politics around the bills?

When listening to an opponent and a proponent talk about the bill, it’s sometimes hard to believe they’re discussing the same legislation.

Perhaps due in part to the different talking points, polls of public sentiment have been somewhat mixed. For instance, a Morning Consult poll of 2005 registered voters from earlier this month found that 50 percent of voters support banning instruction on gender identity and sexual identity in kindergarten through third-grade classrooms. About 34 percent of voters oppose that ban, according to the poll.

A survey from ABC and Ipsos of 622 adults found that 37 percent support banning "classroom lessons about sexual orientation or gender identity in elementary school,” and 62 percent oppose such a ban.

Both opponents and proponents say they’re fighting for what’s right and say public sentiment is on their side.

Michele Rayner, D-St. Petersburg, one of the few queer state lawmakers, called DeSantis a "coward” on Monday for signing the bill at a charter school, as opposed to a more publicly accessible place.

"He knows there are more against him than with him,” Rayner said.

DeSantis, for his part, said the bill is a common-sense measure.

"I don’t care what corporate media outlets say. I don’t care what Hollywood says. I don’t care what big corporations say. Here I stand,” DeSantis said Monday. "I’m not backing down.”

So again, please help me understand why you think it should be school teachers teaching our children about their sexuality, as opposed to their parents, or them figuring it out on their own?  

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Just now, Kz! said:

So you want public schools to teach about sexual orientation to K-3rd grades. Why?

It has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with family. It is 2022. In today's world kids can have parents who are male/female, male/male, female/female, single male, single female, step-parents, etc. Kids at that age are incredibly curious. They must understand the difference in family makeup between their own, their friends, and classmates. Sex education doesn't start until middle school, and those lessons are about body parts and their function as the kids are navigating puberty....

To those who support the bill, especially those who came up with it... What disgusting things are you thinking? I can't even fathom. It is gross. 

And Florida schools are a whole mess amongst themselves. That's a whole another subject. Last thing they need is a bunch of politicians dictating what they do.

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2 minutes ago, toolg said:

It has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with family. It is 2022. In today's world kids can have parents who are male/female, male/male, female/female, single male, single female, step-parents, etc. Kids at that age are incredibly curious. They must understand the difference in family makeup between their own, their friends, and classmates. Sex education doesn't start until middle school, and those lessons are about body parts and their function as the kids are navigating puberty....

To those who support the bill, especially those who came up with it... What disgusting things are you thinking? I can't even fathom. It is gross. 

And Florida schools are a whole mess amongst themselves. That's a whole another subject. Last thing they need is a bunch of politicians dictating what they do.

The bill doesn't prevent students from disclosing their "family makeup" lmfao. This is why journalists belong in prison.

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3 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

Since it's pretty clear that most of you have no clue what the bill is actually about, here's a pretty good synopsis

So again, please help me understand why you think it should be school teachers teaching our children about their sexuality, as opposed to their parents, or them figuring it out on their own?  

It is not either/or proposition. Kids should be learning from all sources. I feel this bill is overreach. Take your politics out of schools. Let the teachers teach. Kids in K-3 aren't learning about sex. What are you thinking?

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5 minutes ago, mikemack8 said:

Since it's pretty clear that most of you have no clue what the bill is actually about, here's a pretty good synopsis

So again, please help me understand why you think it should be school teachers teaching our children about their sexuality, as opposed to their parents, or them figuring it out on their own?  

Literally the most benign milquetoast legislation that prevents gender identity lessons for effing kindergartners - 3rd grade gets national condemnation from ishlibs. It's completely unreal. They are so incredibly skull Fed by the media.

Just now, toolg said:

It is not either/or proposition. Kids should be learning from all sources. I feel this bill is overreach. Take your politics out of schools. Let the teachers teach. Kids in K-3 aren't learning about sex. What are you thinking?

So you are against a bill banning something that no one is teaching about anyway? Makes sense.

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2 minutes ago, Kz! said:

So you are against a bill banning something that no one is teaching about anyway? Makes sense.

That's right. It is totally unnecessary. Stop wasting my time. The makers of this bill and those going out of their way to support it are stupid.

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Just now, toolg said:

That's right. It is totally unnecessary. Stop wasting my time. The makers of this bill and those going out of their way to support it are stupid.

Kind of harkens back to the CRT discussion:

"Stop teaching CRT"

"lol what? no one is teaching CRT."

"OK good, we'll officially ban it, then"

"WHAT! YOU CAN'T DO THAT! RAPPEEEEEEEE!"

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:roll: This thread has already delivered - no surprise there 

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toolg honestly just ran the full gamut of ishlibbery in just a few posts in here. It's really quite incredible. 

First he comes out against the bill:

37 minutes ago, toolg said:

The fallacy is the notion that gays are "groomed" from a certain age. Or that you can convert somebody to/from becoming gay. That's not how it works. The Florida bill is unnecessary  government overreach in schools. It goes too far so I am against it.

Then, he displays a fundamental misunderstanding of the bill because he consumes too much fake news:

16 minutes ago, toolg said:

It has nothing to do with sex. It has to do with family. It is 2022. In today's world kids can have parents who are male/female, male/male, female/female, single male, single female, step-parents, etc. Kids at that age are incredibly curious. They must understand the difference in family makeup between their own, their friends, and classmates. Sex education doesn't start until middle school, and those lessons are about body parts and their function as the kids are navigating puberty....

To those who support the bill, especially those who came up with it... What disgusting things are you thinking? I can't even fathom. It is gross. 

And Florida schools are a whole mess amongst themselves. That's a whole another subject. Last thing they need is a bunch of politicians dictating what they do.

Finally, after being corrected about what it is, he says "no ones teaching it anyway" and I'm against it because it's wasting my time:

7 minutes ago, toolg said:

That's right. It is totally unnecessary. Stop wasting my time. The makers of this bill and those going out of their way to support it are stupid.

Remarkable. :lol: 

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The bill seems to just be a political tool, like most things anymore. The actual content of it isn't very significant. A school district cannot encourage discussion of sexuality and gender in the classroom at those young ages. That's fine, I don't really want a 2nd grade teacher actively discussing these things with my child anyway, regardless of their political beliefs one way or the other. Having and encouraging classroom discussions regarding gender and sexuality and being inclusive and acknowledging that these things exist in society are quite different. 

A reasonable defense against this bill is that it is unnecessary. There are plenty of things I don't want discussed in the classroom my child is in at that age, do we need a bill for each topic? Most are common sense.

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1 minute ago, BirdsFanBill said:

The bill seems to just be a political tool, like most things anymore. The actual content of it isn't very significant. A school district cannot encourage discussion of sexuality and gender in the classroom at those young ages. That's fine, I don't really want a 2nd grade teacher actively discussing these things with my child anyway, regardless of their political beliefs one way or the other. Having and encouraging classroom discussions regarding gender and sexuality and being inclusive and acknowledging that these things exist in society are quite different. 

A reasonable defense against this bill is that it is unnecessary. There are plenty of things I don't want discussed in the classroom my child is in at that age, do we need a bill for each topic? Most are common sense.

Common sense left the building a while back, brah

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8 minutes ago, toolg said:

That's right. It is totally unnecessary. Stop wasting my time. The makers of this bill and those going out of their way to support it are stupid.

But honestly, if you think the bill is pointless and a complete non-issue, why do you think there's been national media coverage of the issue? Why the need to lie about what the bill is? Why is it drawing universal condemnation from democrats including the white house? Why are they wasting your time, bro?

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2 minutes ago, BirdsFanBill said:

The bill seems to just be a political tool, like most things anymore. The actual content of it isn't very significant. A school district cannot encourage discussion of sexuality and gender in the classroom at those young ages. That's fine, I don't really want a 2nd grade teacher actively discussing these things with my child anyway, regardless of their political beliefs one way or the other. Having and encouraging classroom discussions regarding gender and sexuality and being inclusive and acknowledging that these things exist in society are quite different. 

A reasonable defense against this bill is that it is unnecessary. There are plenty of things I don't want discussed in the classroom my child is in at that age, do we need a bill for each topic? Most are common sense.

Great. So why the national media attention? Why is the white house condemning the legislation? Why are democrats brazenly lying about it?

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Just now, Kz! said:

Great. So why the national media attention? Why is the white house condemning the legislation? Why are democrats brazenly lying about it?

Make a wedge-issue bill designed to get national media attention.

"Why all the national media attention?"

:lol:

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