June 8, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, DEagle7 said: They don't view themselves as developing normally though. You're allowing them to develop as they view themselves. And this isn't a new enough treatment that we have no data on the psychological outcomes https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/pediatrics/145/2/e20191725.full.pdf A significant reduction in suicidal ideation. There are other studies that all show similar data on mental health outcomes. It really isn't "experimental", medically or emotionally at this point. The bold isn't something we have data on at this point as far as I am aware. The link doesn't work. Can you try posting the article or maybe another link?
June 8, 20223 yr 24 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: The bold isn't something we have data on at this point as far as I am aware. The link doesn't work. Can you try posting the article or maybe another link? The bold is kind of the definition of a trans kid seeking hormone blockers. The kids who want/don't care about their body's development aren't seeking this kind of therapy. Here's a different link, should work. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/
June 8, 20223 yr 9 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: The bold is kind of the definition of a trans kid seeking hormone blockers. The kids who want/don't care about their body's development aren't seeking this kind of therapy. Here's a different link, should work. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7073269/ i read the abstract and main conclusion and skimmed the rest. There were only 89 patients (ages 9-16 suggesting a relatively wide span of level of puberty reached when the hormone blockers were first used) in the study that had received puberty suppression and the only outcome reported on was that of suicidal ideation. Quite a limited group and a rather narrow conclusion on a narrow topic. Not saying that the topic isn't important but it is only one small sliver of overall mental health and on a very small set of subjects who, btw, all self reported. I don't want to sheet on this study as it is no doubt a valuable study BUT it is far from convincing given its very narrow focus and super small data set plus the fact that it is all based on self reporting and the ages and puberty levels are so wide spread. This seems like a good building block but far from any definitive answer.
June 8, 20223 yr 5 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: I don't want to sheet on this study as it is no doubt a valuable study BUT it is far from convincing given its very narrow focus and super small data set plus the fact that it is all based on self reporting and the ages and puberty levels are so wide spread. This seems like a good building block but far from any definitive answer. Yes. This is the point I want to emphasize. Puberty blockers are not going to be some widespread solution for all the who think they are trans out there. Just the ones that are at an extreme risk. Quote Transgender youth present to clinicians with a range of concerns. Some have minimal body dysphoria and do not desire pubertal suppression, whereas others report significant dysphoria around the physical changes related to puberty. Because not all transgender and gender-diverse youth desire medical interventions, we examined only those youth who desired pubertal suppression because these are the young people who would present to care and for whom clinicians would need to decide about whether to initiate pubertal suppression.
June 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, toolg said: Yes. This is the point I want to emphasize. Puberty blockers are not going to be some widespread solution for all the who think they are trans out there. Just the ones that are at an extreme risk. Well that may be but a study is best done with larger data samples. Also, medicine is truly a blessing when used correctly but sadly that isn't always the case. We need only look at how much we've over prescribed anti depression type medicine as a society over the last 25 years. Another example, is that of pain killers. Same problem there.
June 8, 20223 yr 14 minutes ago, DrPhilly said: i read the abstract and main conclusion and skimmed the rest. There were only 89 patients (ages 9-16 suggesting a relatively wide span of level of puberty reached when the hormone blockers were first used) in the study that had received puberty suppression and the only outcome reported on was that of suicidal ideation. Quite a limited group and a rather narrow conclusion on a narrow topic. Not saying that the topic isn't important but it is only one small sliver of overall mental health and on a very small set of subjects who, btw, all self reported. I don't want to sheet on this study as it is no doubt a valuable study BUT it is far from convincing given its very narrow focus and super small data set plus the fact that it is all based on self reporting and the ages and puberty levels are so wide spread. This seems like a good building block but far from any definitive answer. Given the huge n of the study, that kinda confirms toolg's point about this not being a common thing even among the trans population. There are plenty of similar studies though: https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(20)30027-6/fulltext https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13633-020-00078-2.pdf https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/134/4/696/32932/Young-Adult-Psychological-Outcome-After-Puberty?redirectedFrom=fulltext There are no "definitive answers" in psychological studies. That's not a reasonable standard to hold out for here. But the data we do have demonstrates positive emotional and psychological benefits in this subset of trans kids. At a certain point the onus falls on you to demonstrate these treatments have negative impact on trans kids.
June 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, DEagle7 said: Given the huge n of the study, that kinda confirms toolg's point about this not being a common thing even among the trans population. Again, that doesn't really matter as far as the study itself goes. The study is based on its own data.
June 8, 20223 yr 2 minutes ago, DEagle7 said: There are no "definitive answers" in psychological studies. That's not a reasonable standard to hold out for here. But the data we do have demonstrates positive emotional and psychological benefits in this subset of trans kids. Fair enough, I'll look at the other studies when I have time.
June 8, 20223 yr Author I love that the dumbest cult on the planet can't pump the brakes on the crazy train they created now even if they wanted to.
June 8, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, DEagle7 said: Given the huge n of the study, that kinda confirms toolg's point about this not being a common thing even among the trans population. There are plenty of similar studies though: https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(20)30027-6/fulltext https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13633-020-00078-2.pdf https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/134/4/696/32932/Young-Adult-Psychological-Outcome-After-Puberty?redirectedFrom=fulltext There are no "definitive answers" in psychological studies. That's not a reasonable standard to hold out for here. But the data we do have demonstrates positive emotional and psychological benefits in this subset of trans kids. At a certain point the onus falls on you to demonstrate these treatments have negative impact on trans kids. You're wasting your time, dude. The swedish meatball over there dismissed mountains of hard evidence for 2 years on mask usage providing protection against coronavirus, do you really think you're gonna change his mind on anything related to a soft science like psychology?
June 8, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, mikemack8 said: Stop posting the stuff that's actively promoted by the officials I elected!! Holy sheet, you're still butt hurt. Just don't post child porn, dude. That's it. That's all I'm asking. How the F has this upset you guys so much. Also, don't defend Kz when his disgusting, perverted a** does. So, two requests, neither of them unreasonable. How is this so difficult for you.
June 8, 20223 yr Author 17 minutes ago, mikemack8 said: Stop posting the stuff that's actively promoted by the officials I elected!! He literally argued that Good Morning America broadcast child porn on national television.
June 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Kz! said: He literally argued that Good Morning America broadcast child porn on national television. So, you seriously don't see the problem with you posting videos that you admit are pornographic child exploitation? No one's this stupid, Kz. Not even you. Again, I don't want to see them and neither does anyone else on here. I'm sure you can figure out a way to keep posting here without including kiddie porn in your posts.
June 8, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, DEagle7 said: Given the huge n of the study, that kinda confirms toolg's point about this not being a common thing even among the trans population. There are plenty of similar studies though: https://www.jahonline.org/article/S1054-139X(20)30027-6/fulltext https://ijpeonline.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s13633-020-00078-2.pdf https://publications.aap.org/pediatrics/article-abstract/134/4/696/32932/Young-Adult-Psychological-Outcome-After-Puberty?redirectedFrom=fulltext There are no "definitive answers" in psychological studies. That's not a reasonable standard to hold out for here. But the data we do have demonstrates positive emotional and psychological benefits in this subset of trans kids. At a certain point the onus falls on you to demonstrate these treatments have negative impact on trans kids. Ok, I read one, I was geo blocked on one, and I was paywall blocked on one. Anyway, they all look like good positive results. All good there. Still a pretty new science and we are still very much in the learning phase as evidenced by a NY Times article that I read as well that said "we just don't know about all the side effects yet..." though they were clear to point out the positives. I can definitely say that I know more about this topic now then a week ago (thanks for the help there). Certainly seems like a case where we should be quite restrictive generally but encourage doctors to provide the necessary treatments when cases clearly require them. We should also continue to study this topic as we get more material and as the patients age deeper into life. I think that's where you are with this one as well.
June 8, 20223 yr Author 2 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: So, you seriously don't see the problem with you posting videos that you admit are pornographic child exploitation? No one's this stupid, Kz. Not even you. Again, I don't want to see them and neither does anyone else on here. I'm sure you can figure out a way to keep posting here without including kiddie porn in your posts. You're unironically arguing that Good Morning America broadcast kiddie porn on national television. Have you reached your peak of retardation or do you actually have more room to grow?
June 8, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Kz! said: I love that the dumbest cult on the planet can't pump the brakes on the crazy train they created now even if they wanted to. She likes that her pronouns make her feel like she's not a person. How brave and empowering.
June 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Kz! said: You're unironically arguing that Good Morning America broadcast kiddie porn on national television. Have you reached your peak of retardation or do you actually have more room to grow? One more time: 5 minutes ago, VanHammersly said: So, you seriously don't see the problem with you posting videos that you admit are pornographic child exploitation? If it's disgusting, exploitive and shouldn't be seen, then don't post it. For everyone that isn't a disgusting pervert, it's really not that hard.
June 8, 20223 yr Author Just now, VanHammersly said: One more time: If it's disgusting, exploitive and shouldn't be seen, then don't post it. For everyone that isn't a disgusting pervert, it's really not that hard. lmao, no, I think I'll keep showing you what disgusting liberals are doing. You're free to continue spiraling into a soy rage, but you may want to direct your anger toward the people that encourage the behavior and actually exploit the children rather than the messenger. Either way, I'll enjoy laughing at you. It's really not that hard.
June 8, 20223 yr 11 minutes ago, Kz! said: You're unironically arguing that Good Morning America broadcast kiddie porn on national television. Have you reached your peak of retardation or do you actually have more room to grow? Every time you think Van has reached peak retardation he finds a way to raise the bar
June 8, 20223 yr 1 minute ago, Kz! said: lmao, no, I think I'll keep showing you what disgusting liberals are doing. You're free to continue spiraling into a soy rage, but you may want to direct your anger toward the people that encourage the behavior and actually exploit the children rather than the messenger. Either way, I'll enjoy laughing at you. It's really not that hard. Yeah, anyone doing that is disgusting. And you spreading the videos around is equally disgusting. I have plenty of soy rage to spare for all parties involved. You can still regurgitate right wing talking points all day without posting the videos. What's completely insane here is that your mind is so irreperably broken that you think you have to post exploitive child porn or else you're losing an imaginary war. Seek help.
June 8, 20223 yr Author Just now, VanHammersly said: Yeah, anyone doing that is disgusting. And you spreading the videos around is equally disgusting. I have plenty of soy rage to spare for all parties involved. You can still regurgitate right wing talking points all day without posting the videos. What's completely insane here is that your mind is so irreperably broken that you think you have to post exploitive child porn or else you're losing an imaginary war. Seek help. I know I've broken you so hard mentally that you're just going to push forward with one of the most retarded arguments ever made in here, but you... we both understand what I've posted isn't child pornography, right? I get that you're trying to shame me into not posting anymore examples of disgusting liberals grooming children, just want to make sure you haven't gone completely insane.
June 8, 20223 yr Author 5 minutes ago, mikemack8 said: Every time you think Van has reached peak retardation he finds a way to raise the bar He's really just going to go full **** and act like something that's been up on twitter for over 24 hours on one of the most popular and viewed accounts is literally child porn. And... and he's going to say ABC broadcast child porn... at 9 AM on national television... Good god, what have I done to this person.
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