Bijan Robinson (Texas RB) -- DRAFTED BY ATLANTA #8

[philafan4o8]

4 hours ago, Rey said:

Giibs imo will be nowhere the player Robinson will be at the next level. Gibbs has excellent speed and acceleration, but does not fight through contact well at all, too often gives up on the designed runs (loves to break it outside) and gets stuffed at the LOS way more often than Robinson. Also, in pass protection Gibbs doesn't hold up nearly as good as Robinson. imo Gibbs is a really nice "complimentary" Back, but not a Franchise-type Back Robinson projects to being.

I couldn't say it any better. Gibbs is a really good prospect but him and Bijan are not in the same tier/league/level. That is not a knock on Gibbs, that is just how great of a prospect Bijan is. To be honest this Bijan opens the offense a bunch more because this frees up Gainwell to play that "gadget" role and line up everywhere. With Bijan this offense is other worldly

[pgcd3]

Bijan in this offense is potentially transformational.  Probably the only player in the draft that could have that impact. I get the other logic as well.  If I could get Wilson or Anderson I'd say go that way but once I'm at Van Ness or Murphy I'm more apt to take the risk on a RB and a 5-yr window.  Doubt they will but I would love it

[judunno]

40 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

I couldn't say it any better. Gibbs is a really good prospect but him and Bijan are not in the same tier/league/level. That is not a knock on Gibbs, that is just how great of a prospect Bijan is. To be honest this Bijan opens the offense a bunch more because this frees up Gainwell to play that "gadget" role and line up everywhere. With Bijan this offense is other worldly

I don't think anyone is arguing who the better back is. The question is about value. Is it worth investing a top 15 pick in a RB that has a high risk of getting banged up given the nature of the position when you could get someone in the 2nd or 3rd that can be just as productive.

[pgcd3]

15 minutes ago, judunno said:

I don't think anyone is arguing who the better back is. The question is about value. Is it worth investing a top 15 pick in a RB that has a high risk of getting banged up given the nature of the position when you could get someone in the 2nd or 3rd that can be just as productive.

Value is the question but I don't think you can get someone in the 2nd or 3rd who is just as productive. Bijon is a rare talent

[judunno]

17 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

Value is the question but I don't think you can get someone in the 2nd or 3rd who is just as productive. Bijon is a rare talent

Sure you could. The Eagles deploy a RBC. They don't ask their backs to get 350 + carries like you would a bell cow back because then they'd be burned out come playoff time. In this offense we need a guy that can get close to 5 yards (Sanders had 4.9) a carry whether it be chunk plays or not. Bijon is a rare talent but he's not going to do much more than 5 yards a carry in the NFL. (for reference Saquon only did this once (he keeps getting banged up), Derek Henry around 3 times (he keeps getting banged up)). See where I'm going?

[Portyansky]

Bijan at 10 is too expensive. If Howie trades back a bit there's a strong possibility to still get Bijan plus extra picks. Imagine getting Bijan and a 2nd for our 10. I don't know the comps of picks, could be more or less, I'm just saying we could still gain Bijan plus extra picks.

[philafan4o8]

1 hour ago, judunno said:

Sure you could. The Eagles deploy a RBC. They don't ask their backs to get 350 + carries like you would a bell cow back because then they'd be burned out come playoff time. In this offense we need a guy that can get close to 5 yards (Sanders had 4.9) a carry whether it be chunk plays or not. Bijon is a rare talent but he's not going to do much more than 5 yards a carry in the NFL. (for reference Saquon only did this once (he keeps getting banged up), Derek Henry around 3 times (he keeps getting banged up)). See where I'm going?

You are comparing him to guys that were not better prospects. Also, I don't like the reasoning you shouldn't get him because in past drafts...

Every draft is different and prospects are different. Here are a couple of examples, in 2019 the eagles drafted Andre Dillard. They drafted him over Josh Jacobs (couple picks later). If the Eagles had a rewind button, who do you think they are drafting with that pick?

Bryce Young is another example. People talking about he shouldn't be drafted #1 because no one in the history of the NFL with his size was successful...That is a lazy argument. Young is going to ball and the past doesn't predict the future. If you want to look at history give me an example of a team that has the eagles firepower at the skill positions, great OL and Young Franchise Qb that just came off a super appearance that drafted a RB of Bijan's caliber in the 1st round and it failed. If you can find that example then I will jump off the Bijan train

 

[judunno]

11 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

You are comparing him to guys that were not better prospects. Also, I don't like the reasoning you shouldn't get him because in past drafts...

Every draft is different and prospects are different. Here are a couple of examples, in 2019 the eagles drafted Andre Dillard. They drafted him over Josh Jacobs (couple picks later). If the Eagles had a rewind button, who do you think they are drafting with that pick?

Bryce Young is another example. People talking about he shouldn't be drafted #1 because no one in the history of the NFL with his size was successful...That is a lazy argument. Young is going to ball and the past doesn't predict the future. If you want to look at history give me an example of a team that has the eagles firepower at the skill positions, great OL and Young Franchise Qb that just came off a super appearance that drafted a RB of Bijan's caliber in the 1st round and it failed. If you can find that example then I will jump off the Bijan train

 

I'm comparing him to recent first round RB prospects. Ultimately RBs get banged up nullifying the effectiveness and value of the pick. This is why the Eagles and some of the better super bowl winning teams around the league deploy RBC. I'm talking about RBs only. Argument isn't relevant to other positions. The Eagles didn't lose the Superbowl because of the offense or trouble at RB. They lost because the Defense couldn't get any stops. So my logic is get as much fire power on the defense as possible before picking a RB who's positional value around the league is diminishing and you can find sufficient production and better value at RB in later rounds. KC won with a 7th round RB for christs sake.

[philafan4o8]

23 minutes ago, judunno said:

I'm comparing him to recent first round RB prospects. Ultimately RBs get banged up nullifying the effectiveness and value of the pick. This is why the Eagles and some of the better super bowl winning teams around the league deploy RBC. I'm talking about RBs only. Argument isn't relevant to other positions. The Eagles didn't lose the Superbowl because of the offense or trouble at RB. They lost because the Defense couldn't get any stops. So my logic is get as much fire power on the defense as possible before picking a RB who's positional value around the league is diminishing and you can find sufficient production and better value at RB in later rounds. KC won with a 7th round RB for christs sake.

But to your same point, the chiefs won with a terrible defense. The Eagles defense was loaded and still lost!

The Eagles running game outside of Hurts was not great. Chiefs were gashing the Eagles in the superbowl. Lets not pretend that it didn't affect the game and the time of possession at the end of the game.

Anyone can get hurt. You are hand picking guys that got hurt at RB. You keep making comparisons that have nothing to do with Bijan as a prospect

[NJWolverEagle11]

1 hour ago, Portyansky said:

Bijan at 10 is too expensive. If Howie trades back a bit there's a strong possibility to still get Bijan plus extra picks. Imagine getting Bijan and a 2nd for our 10. I don't know the comps of picks, could be more or less, I'm just saying we could still gain Bijan plus extra picks.

Ideal scenario 

[judunno]

1 hour ago, philafan4o8 said:

But to your same point, the chiefs won with a terrible defense. The Eagles defense was loaded and still lost!

The Eagles running game outside of Hurts was not great. Chiefs were gashing the Eagles in the superbowl. Lets not pretend that it didn't affect the game and the time of possession at the end of the game.

Anyone can get hurt. You are hand picking guys that got hurt at RB. You keep making comparisons that have nothing to do with Bijan as a prospect

Bad inexperienced DC. I want our new coordinator to have a wealth of talent as well. As for backs I just gave a couple of examples of the best in the league.You can check any running back. They get banged up bottom line in that position throughout the course of the year. That's why RBC makes much more sense than a prototypical bell cow franchise back. Preserves them for not only the season but their careers. And if you're going to have a RBC it doesn't make a ton of sense to allocate a ton of resources to the position. RB is the skill position most susceptible to a pounding given the # touches considering that they can't be protected like QBs. What good is having a great elite RB if they are banged up from wear and tear. The argument isn't about Bijan at all. He's the best RB prospect in the draft arguably many of the prior drafts. The argument is RBC vs Franchise Bell Cow back. I prefer the former personally to keep guys healthy the most when it counts come playoff time. I would be fine come start of the season if Bijan was on the roster. Wouldn't like it initially if there were better talent at positions where we're getting old but I'd get over it. Good problem to have.

[philafan4o8]

32 minutes ago, judunno said:

Bad inexperienced DC. I want our new coordinator to have a wealth of talent as well. As for backs I just gave a couple of examples of the best in the league.You can check any running back. They get banged up bottom line in that position throughout the course of the year. That's why RBC makes much more sense than a prototypical bell cow franchise back. Preserves them for not only the season but their careers. And if you're going to have a RBC it doesn't make a ton of sense to allocate a ton of resources to the position. RB is the skill position most susceptible to a pounding given the # touches considering that they can't be protected like QBs. What good is having a great elite RB if they are banged up from wear and tear. The argument isn't about Bijan at all. He's the best RB prospect in the draft arguably many of the prior drafts. The argument is RBC vs Franchise Bell Cow back. I prefer the former personally to keep guys healthy the most when it counts come playoff time. I would be fine come start of the season if Bijan was on the roster. Wouldn't like it initially if there were better talent at positions where we're getting old but I'd get over it. Good problem to have.

Fair enough, I think we fundamentally agree around the value of RB to this offense and that is ok. We don't have a regular offense with a regular QB. We need an RB that can command respect in the RPO game (options), good pass protector, and take hits off of Hurts. With 17 games, every team is RBC to keep guys healthy. But teams still have a lead back. The eagles lack a closer and that is what hurt us in the bowl and is what we don't have. Hurts is not going to be mobile forever. 

I do agree that there are a few guys that we can select over Bijan at 10 and would be completely justified. My only concern is that the Eagles try to stick to their guns by taking the 4-5th best Dlineman because they are a dlineman rather than getting best player on the board. While we think it is relatively easy to trade out of picks, sometimes teams have a hard time moving because teams back out last second during the draft. Personally, there are a few guys I would draft over Bijan. Jalen Carter, Will Anderson, Tyree Wilson, and Myles Murphy (Brian Bresee is an honorable mention). If those 4 guys are gone, I personally wouldn't draft anyone else in front of Bijan and even that list is kind of stretching it.

[judunno]

1 hour ago, philafan4o8 said:

Fair enough, I think we fundamentally agree around the value of RB to this offense and that is ok. We don't have a regular offense with a regular QB. We need an RB that can command respect in the RPO game (options), good pass protector, and take hits off of Hurts. With 17 games, every team is RBC to keep guys healthy. But teams still have a lead back. The eagles lack a closer and that is what hurt us in the bowl and is what we don't have. Hurts is not going to be mobile forever. 

I do agree that there are a few guys that we can select over Bijan at 10 and would be completely justified. My only concern is that the Eagles try to stick to their guns by taking the 4-5th best Dlineman because they are a dlineman rather than getting best player on the board. While we think it is relatively easy to trade out of picks, sometimes teams have a hard time moving because teams back out last second during the draft. Personally, there are a few guys I would draft over Bijan. Jalen Carter, Will Anderson, Tyree Wilson, and Myles Murphy (Brian Bresee is an honorable mention). If those 4 guys are gone, I personally wouldn't draft anyone else in front of Bijan and even that list is kind of stretching it.

Well the one knock on Bijan is his pass pro but he should be capable there with a little coaching up from our amazing staff. He's got everything else going for him though. My thought is to be aggressive and trade up and grab one of those guys and not chance waiting for one of them to drop to 10. You don't often get the chance to pick in the top 10/top 5 when you are a winning team. I disagree on the closer thing being a reason why we lost the Super Bowl. The offense dominated time of possession. Frankly the offense was dominant. That Defense specifically Gannon Fd us.

[pgcd3]

1 hour ago, judunno said:

Well the one knock on Bijan is his pass pro but he should be capable there with a little coaching up from our amazing staff. He's got everything else going for him though. My thought is to be aggressive and trade up and grab one of those guys and not chance waiting for one of them to drop to 10. You don't often get the chance to pick in the top 10/top 5 when you are a winning team. I disagree on the closer thing being a reason why we lost the Super Bowl. The offense dominated time of possession. Frankly the offense was dominant. That Defense specifically Gannon Fd us.

I'd argue that the S and LBs weren't good at stopping run or covering backs and that's exactly what Howie determined wasn't important

[time2rock]

7 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I'd argue that the S and LBs weren't good at stopping run or covering backs and that's exactly what Howie determined wasn't important

Well we moved on from 4 of the 5.  

[judunno]

10 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

I'd argue that the S and LBs weren't good at stopping run or covering backs and that's exactly what Howie determined wasn't important

Nah I don't buy that.... you're not going to have a perfect defense and allpros at every position. They had way more talent than most on the defensive side of the ball and couldn't get it done. That's a DC/scheme thing. They had no answers schematically.  Reid and Bieniemy outcoached Gannon tremendously... biggly.

[pgcd3]

7 minutes ago, judunno said:

Nah I don't buy that.... you're not going to have a perfect defense and allpros at every position. They had way more talent than most on the defensive side of the ball and couldn't get it done. That's a DC/scheme thing. They had no answers schematically.  Reid and Bieniemy outcoached Gannon tremendously... biggly.

No doubt but lowering the talent can't help.  Someone needs to be capable of providing the coverage or tackles

[judunno]

1 hour ago, pgcd3 said:

No doubt but lowering the talent can't help.  Someone needs to be capable of providing the coverage or tackles

LBs and safeties were good enough is what I'm getting at. We had a DC that didn't know how to adjust to what was happening on the field. Especially when KC's skill positions weren't exactly world beaters outside of Kelce. Gannon got crushed.

[pgcd3]

Just now, judunno said:

LBs and safeties were good enough is what I'm getting at. We had a DC that didn't know how to adjust to what was happening on the field. Especially when KC's skill positions weren't exactly world beaters outside of Kelce. Gannon got crushed.

Yeah I'm not arguing that

[philafan4o8]

13 hours ago, judunno said:

Well the one knock on Bijan is his pass pro but he should be capable there with a little coaching up from our amazing staff. He's got everything else going for him though. My thought is to be aggressive and trade up and grab one of those guys and not chance waiting for one of them to drop to 10. You don't often get the chance to pick in the top 10/top 5 when you are a winning team. I disagree on the closer thing being a reason why we lost the Super Bowl. The offense dominated time of possession. Frankly the offense was dominant. That Defense specifically Gannon Fd us.

That knock is nitpicking. He is slightly above average in pass protection for a RB coming out of college. He is definitely not elite at it but did a good job at Texas.

They couldn’t waste more time like they wanted to because our RBs were getting stuffed. 45 total rushing yards from our RBs? That was pathetic. There is a reason fans were pissed with Miles Sanders in the SB

[judunno]

32 minutes ago, philafan4o8 said:

That knock is nitpicking. He is slightly above average in pass protection for a RB coming out of college. He is definitely not elite at it but did a good job at Texas.

They couldn’t waste more time like they wanted to because our RBs were getting stuffed. 45 total rushing yards from our RBs? That was pathetic. There is a reason fans were pissed with Miles Sanders in the SB

KC sold out to stop the run and Sanders was playing hurt. Offense still put up 35 points and dominated TOP. That should be enough if your defense has a freaking stop when needed... just 1 would've been nice. Give KC some credit they had a good plan against the run but gave up a lot everywhere else. Eagles took what was given and put up 35 and no doubt would have scored more with more possessions if given the opportunity. Gannons plan didn't allow it.

[pgcd3]

37 minutes ago, judunno said:

KC sold out to stop the run and Sanders was playing hurt. Offense still put up 35 points and dominated TOP. That should be enough if your defense has a freaking stop when needed... just 1 would've been nice. Give KC some credit they had a good plan against the run but gave up a lot everywhere else. Eagles took what was given and put up 35 and no doubt would have scored more with more possessions if given the opportunity. Gannons plan didn't allow it.

The we're not going to allow a big play system is horrendous when you can't actually get a stop at all. Just bleeds the clock and keeps the ball from your O

[judunno]

10 minutes ago, pgcd3 said:

The we're not going to allow a big play system is horrendous when you can't actually get a stop at all. Just bleeds the clock and keeps the ball from your O

Yeah...sell out and make it a shoot out at that point. Trust your better talent to maybe make a play. Get some hits on Mahommes even if it costs you a 20 yard play. Just wasn't aggressive enough when all else was failing 

[pgcd3]

17 minutes ago, judunno said:

Yeah...sell out and make it a shoot out at that point. Trust your better talent to maybe make a play. Get some hits on Mahommes even if it costs you a 20 yard play. Just wasn't aggressive enough when all else was failing 

At the end of 52 Jim Schwartz said to Doug I'm going to be aggressive. He read the situation sink or swim. Gannon stunk. No argument. Glad he's gone

[ilikepargo]

1 hour ago, pgcd3 said:

The we're not going to allow a big play system is horrendous when you can't actually get a stop at all. Just bleeds the clock and keeps the ball from your O

It works great against a flawed offense/QB.  Give a team like that enough chances, and it will stop itself often enough.  Where it doesn't work is when you play against a QB like Mahomes.